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Lowland League 2021-22 General Chat


FairWeatherFan

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Just hope at the end of the season that Bonnyrigg don't get shafted again if they end up winning the league!

Do we know who the three remaining board members are, mentioned in the LL's statement?

Bit disingenuous of Maxwell bringing up Berwick Rangers as an example of clubs in the "wrong" area, and saying the tier 5 boundary should be removed because relegation from the LL is set by the four leagues - when really, the EOS/WOS have basically agreed on the council boundaries and the SOS is just D&G so there's not really much choice for clubs.

Interesting suggestion from Mozza to promote all three tier 6 champions - though let's be honest Threave or St Cuthbert Wanderers won't be much better than VOL.

Weird chat about licensing on the podcast, almost as if they were saying it wasn't worth it - pretty sure there is also an annual SFA payment in addition to the Scottish Cup prize/gates? Plus the obvious benefits of playing midweek during the season. And if smaller EOS clubs can get licensed and floodlights put up then 

18 hours ago, Burnieman said:

Another thing that won't go away is LL2, a concept that was born out of the desire to keep the Juniors at arms length had they gained access to tier 6 but is probably now viewed by the clubs as a good way of saving their arses by taking control of tier 6 and dropping into another Lowland run league as opposed to WoS or EoS.  Delaying the inevitable of course but when it comes to self preservation then anything and everything is on the table.

Still don't understand how logically an LL2 would help clubs at the bottom - LL2 would presumably be made up of the best 8 teams from the EOS and WOS, which would see them flushed out even quicker than if they went down to the EOS or WOS just now, plus they'd have travel across the Lowland catchment instead of just the east/west.

17 hours ago, craigkillie said:

I know this has been discussed before and others disagree, but I don't mind the idea of a Lowland League East and West at Tier 6.

Ultimately the two biggest problems with the pyramid in the Lowland area now are the lack of relegation spots between Tiers 5 and 6, and the inappropriate placing of the South of Scotland league. This should in theory address both of these issues, since you'd expect more movement between the Lowland League divisions, and the South would be shifted down to Tier 7. Yes, in the short term you might have the league run by the "wrong" people, but ultimately the clubs would fairly quickly find their own levels and the league boards would have to change to reflect that.

Is there any difference between LL E+W at tier 6 versus getting rid of the SOS at tier 6 and having the EOS/WOS?

Really hope the podcast puts pressure on clubs to table a motion at the AGM to increase relegation - George Fraser shouldn't get away with wanting more ventilation but not doing anything about it.

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2 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Is there any difference between LL E+W at tier 6 versus getting rid of the SOS at tier 6 and having the EOS/WOS?

Not really, but the former seems more likely to happen, and there's probably a slightly bigger chance of having more relegation if it does.

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Taking the existing LL Playoff and giving the top 2 teams promotion seems more likely and simpler than trying to get LL2 in any format off the ground.

LL2 moves the WoSFL, SoSFL, EoSFL down. Are they going to accept that? What would the promotion/relegation format betwen a single division LL2 at T6 & T7? Is licencing going to be a requirement for LL2? How would a LL2 West work for the WoSFL & SoSFL both in its creation and later the promotion/relegation there after?

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There's a blindingly obvious solution. Move the SoSFL down at least a tier or two and create a North and South regionalisation at the bottom of the WoSFL, then have the WoSFL and EoSFL champions automatically promoted into the LL with two automatic relegation spots.

LL East and West is utterly pointless as it's functionally exactly the same as the above solution. I don't see what benefit a LL2 provides. It doesn't solve the problem of 3 into 1 from WoSFL/EoSFL/SoSFL into LL, it won't stop diddies like VoL hurtling through relegation after relegation once they drop out of the LL.

The only reason I can think of for having it is that folk like George Fraser see that rather than going up, Broomhill will more likely head down sooner rather than later and this is a way to cling on to his position for a bit longer or it's a simple land grab. Let the LL hoover up all the bigger clubs in the East and West so they have more 'clout'. I'd image what would happen if the LL does suddenly get an influx of well run, "proper" clubs from tier 6 is that they'll vote to turf out shysters like Fraser anyway.

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1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Taking the existing LL Playoff and giving the top 2 teams promotion seems more likely and simpler than trying to get LL2 in any format off the ground.

LL2 moves the WoSFL, SoSFL, EoSFL down. Are they going to accept that? What would the promotion/relegation format betwen a single division LL2 at T6 & T7? Is licencing going to be a requirement for LL2? How would a LL2 West work for the WoSFL & SoSFL both in its creation and later the promotion/relegation there after?

The fact something is simpler to do doesn't mean it's the right approach. You're still going to end up with the SoS league being clearly at least one level above where it should be and despite the protestations, that is going to be problematic in any number of ways going forward, particularly if the likes of Gretna and Dalbeattie start to get relegated and have a massive drop off in quality of opposition, rather than going into a much more competitive league covering the entire west of the country.

You have to avoid thinking about the current group of board members as being the "Lowland League", but rather think about an ever-changing organisation running a couple of tiers of the pyramid in the Lowland area. The make up of the board will constantly be changing as clubs get promoted and relegated anyway. This should be about a long-term plan for the pyramid, and in 10 years time the likes of "Broomhill" and "Caledonian Braves" will most likely not even exist, let alone wield any influence on how the game is run at that level.

A single division LL2 is a bad idea, I definitely wouldn't support that.

In terms of whether the WoSFL, SoSFL and EoSFL accept being moved down a level, that is basically just blazer politics related to who is actually running a league, rather than specifically impacting any clubs. Most likely the only clubs being "relegated" to Tier 7 would be SoS clubs who don't have any real interest in promotion anyway. You could run an 18/20 team league in season 1 in the LL West to incorporate any SoS clubs who do want to stay in Tier 6 (most likely not many).

I think Licensing as a whole needs to be overhauled. Everyone in the pyramid should have a route into the Scottish Cup (either directly or via qualifying competitions), and licensing should merely be about meeting minimum standards for each individual league.

In terms of promotion and relegation from a LL West into the WoS and SoS, it would just work in the same way as promotion and relegation works at every other level - I would be looking at three relegation spots from LL West and it would be up to the leagues to decide exactly how to divide those up. If the WoS ends up regionalising at some point down the line, the SoS could merge into it at that stage too.

 

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The reasons they'd want a LL2 are:

- Increased influence for LL board

- LL2 to be licensed clubs only - decreases chances of clubs at tier 7 being licensed so can spare the Trigger's Broomhills of this world from dropping out of tier 5 and plummeting through the WoS or EoS (as VoL are about to do)

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12 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

The fact something is simpler to do doesn't mean it's the right approach. You're still going to end up with the SoS league being clearly at least one level above where it should be and despite the protestations, that is going to be problematic in any number of ways going forward, particularly if the likes of Gretna and Dalbeattie start to get relegated and have a massive drop off in quality of opposition, rather than going into a much more competitive league covering the entire west of the country.

It's simpler because it has the chance of passing. The SoSFL have had plenty of chances to step down with the introduction of the WoSFL. From a formal approach or by individual clubs applying to the WoSFL. It hasn't happened. Gretna and Dalbeattie are getting relegated to the SoSFL and they could have voiced their preference to go to the WoSFL. It hasn't happened.

A 2up 2 down with the existing 3 T6 leagues might actually pass because Gretna & Dalbeattie would be more likely to vote for it. As it would provide a greater opportunity for them getting promoted back to the LL.

12 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

In terms of promotion and relegation from a LL West into the WoS and SoS, it would just work in the same way as promotion and relegation works at every other level - I would be looking at three relegation spots from LL West and it would be up to the leagues to decide exactly how to divide those up. If the WoS ends up regionalising at some point down the line, the SoS could merge into it at that stage too.

 

So if you're in the East then LL East and EoS Premier can have 3up - 3 down, but in the West you still get the same cobbled together farce of having to slot in the SoSFL. I'm sure everyone in the West will be happy with that.

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21 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

So if you're in the East then LL East and EoS Premier can have 3up - 3 down, but in the West you still get the same cobbled together farce of having to slot in the SoSFL. I'm sure everyone in the West will be happy with that.

There's roughly the same number of clubs in the East and West, it's up to them how they choose to split their divisions.

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Always think that the Lowland sits at a crossroads, are clubs being relegated more important than ambitious clubs trying to climb the ladder ? Both the EFL and SPFL clubs have a fear of dropping down into non - league, hard luck, get down. Hopefully ALL champions should  get promoted, bottom 2 should go down. (All leagues)

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On 27/08/2021 at 16:16, Gordon EF said:

Stenhousemuir chairman floating the idea of an SPFL2 2 I'm hearing.

Nothing like a 4-1 gubbing off a recent former junior club from a wee ex-mining town to bring home the reality that their SPFL status is in dead man walking territory now given there are plenty of other wee ex-mining town clubs potentially following the same trajectory.

Edited by LongTimeLurker
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35 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Nothing like a 4-1 gubbing off a recent former junior club from a wee ex-mining town to bring home the reality that their SPFL status is in dead man walking territory now given there are plenty of other wee ex-mining town clubs potentially following the same trajectory.

And that’s with getting hibs youngsters in

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