HibsFan Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 In hindsight, the OP not updating the thread to say "2022/23" instead was quite prophetic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 6 hours ago, kennie makevin said: So you'd have to say if you're being generous that Gordon Strachan and Neil Lennon fulfilled that criteria and, if only for a short period, were of Champions League standard. Parhaps there is an argument for Martin but not sure of any other Celtic manager in the CL era. So Neil Lennon in your opinion was a Champions League level manager thanks for clarifying. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 16 hours ago, Jinky67 said: You have managers that have won the Champions League who have turned out to be pretty shit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennie makevin Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 53 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: So Neil Lennon in your opinion was a Champions League level manager thanks for clarifying. At the time when he took Celtic out of the group stages, of course he was. For whatever season that was. The boy done good , as they say on the streets of Linlithgow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 52 minutes ago, Mr. Alli said: Di Matteo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennie makevin Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 17 hours ago, Jinky67 said: Kind of the point I was making, getting us out of the group stages doesn’t make someone a Champions League level manager, the concept of such a thing is a bit fantastical. You have managers that have won the Champions League who have turned out to be pretty shit Regardless of how they turned out when time and the changing power structure of European football caught up with them, in the seasons that Strachan & Lennon got Celtic out of the CL group stages they merited being classed a Champions League level manager. How they turned out is not the point here. Celtic, for example were a Champions League level side in those years, they clearly are not now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: Di Matteo Promotion with West Brom. Champions League with Chelsea. Sixth in the table with Schalke. Poor at Villa, granted. Is that a poor managerial record? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mr. Alli said: Promotion with West Brom. Champions League with Chelsea. Sixth in the table with Schalke. Poor at Villa, granted. Is that a poor managerial record? Promoted with West Brom and sacked by the February Took over Chelsea in the March win the Champions League and FA cup and then sacked by November Took over Schalke and granted they finished 6th however he had to resign as he won only 2 of their last 10 which cost them a place in the Champions League so the season ultimately was a failure. Aston Villa he lasted 4 months. No one has touched him since. Details are important and with the exception of West Brom didn’t last a year in any position, what does that tell you? Edited October 27, 2022 by Jinky67 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionsof67 Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 10 hours ago, Jinky67 said: So Neil Lennon in your opinion was a Champions League level manager thanks for clarifying. Neil Lennon got us our first ever away CL win in the group stage when we beat Moscow 3-2, He got us 10 points in that group our highest tally ever in the CL with further wins over Moscow, Barcelona and a draw with benfica. He got us our first ever win on Italian Soil against Lazio after beating them at home, got us 13 points total in that Europa League group, our highest ever points tally in that competition. He was by far a champions league level manager for us, to say otherwise is just bias against him for the covid season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennie makevin Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) To suggest that in the season that a Celtic manager gets them into the knock out stages of the Champions League he cannot (for that season alone - not in perpetuity) be classed as a Champions League level manager is the kind of nonsense that a rabid anti-Celtic zealot like myself might come up with. That such a devout keeper of the scrolls of Celtic faith as Jinky 67 is the one to espouse such defamation stuns me, shocks me, leaves me questioning the very foundations of all I hold true. Jinky is a heretic (with the emphasis on 'tic'). Roll Over Brother Walfrid and Tell Willie Maley The News. !!! Edited October 28, 2022 by kennie makevin Typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Lionsof67 said: Neil Lennon got us our first ever away CL win in the group stage when we beat Moscow 3-2, He got us 10 points in that group our highest tally ever in the CL with further wins over Moscow, Barcelona and a draw with benfica. He got us our first ever win on Italian Soil against Lazio after beating them at home, got us 13 points total in that Europa League group, our highest ever points tally in that competition. He was by far a champions league level manager for us, to say otherwise is just bias against him for the covid season. Have i said otherwise? I am just very surprised considering Kennie thinks he is considering his normal anti-everything Celtic opinion. Comes as a surprise. I thoroughly enjoyed Lennys 1st tenure, his 2nd I was very vocal about him not being the right person to follow Rodgers and sadly proven right. He’s still a Celtic legend in my eyes though 4 hours ago, kennie makevin said: To suggest that in the season that a Celtic manager gets them into the knock out stages of the Champions League he cannot (for that season alone - not in perpetuity) be classed as a Champions League level manager is the kind of nonsense that a rabid anti-Celtic zealot like myself might come up with. That such a devout keeper of the scrolls of Celtic faith as Jinky 67 is the one to espouse such defamation stuns me, shocks me, leaves me questioning the very foundations of all I hold true. Jinky is a heretic (with the emphasis on 'tic'). Roll Over Brother Walfrid and Tell Willie Maley The News. !!! I haven’t suggested anything, my reaction is to you actually having anything positive to say about a Celtic manager and especially one as polarising as Neil Lennon, I really didn’t see that one coming at all Again you are trying to read between the lines and not actually reading what I have written, so yeah just a bit of a wild take from you which is not that shocking at all Edited October 28, 2022 by Jinky67 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennie makevin Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Jinky67 said: Have i said otherwise? I am just very surprised considering Kennie thinks he is considering his normal anti-everything Celtic opinion. Comes as a surprise. I thoroughly enjoyed Lennys 1st tenure, his 2nd I was very vocal about him not being the right person to follow Rodgers and sadly proven right. He’s still a Celtic legend in my eyes though I haven’t suggested anything, my reaction is to you actually having anything positive to say about a Celtic manager and especially one as polarising as Neil Lennon, I really didn’t see that one coming at all Again you are trying to read between the lines and not actually reading what I have written, so yeah just a bit of a wild take from you which is not that shocking at all You're 'memes' , if that's what they're called, need to be less opaque for simpletons like myself . Not just me but our good friend Lionsof67 thought you were dissing Mr Lennon with the use of the eyebrow raising Gif (parhaps that's what they're called). Anyway there is plenty I might take issue with regarding Neil Lennon but not his record as a Celtic manager in Europe. He certainly didn't display the naivety of the current incumbent who through either stubbornness or stupidity seems to think that what works so effortlessly for Celtic in Scotland will do the same for them in Europe despite an ever increasing body of evidence to the contrary . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, kennie makevin said: You're 'memes' , if that's what they're called, need to be less opaque for simpletons like myself . Not just me but our good friend Lionsof67 thought you were dissing Mr Lennon with the use of the eyebrow raising Gif (parhaps that's what they're called). Anyway there is plenty I might take issue with regarding Neil Lennon but not his record as a Celtic manager in Europe. He certainly didn't display the naivety of the current incumbent who through either stubbornness or stupidity seems to think that what works so effortlessly for Celtic in Scotland will do the same for them in Europe despite an ever increasing body of evidence to the contrary . Then you will be well aware and in the interest of drawing fair comparison that Neil Lennon didn’t really start to get it right in Europe until his 3rd season in charge. The first 2 seasons were a bit of a disaster tbh. His 1st season we went out at the first hurdle getting battered by Utrecht and the 2nd was the season we got put out by Sion and then reinstated to then go out again in the group stages and i also remember the chat about Lennon after our exit and the sentiment from folks like yourself was very far from Neil Lennon is a Champions League level manager…..in fact it was probably about as far from that as you could imagine Small details Kennie but they matter and in this case Ange done significantly better in his 1st season in Europe than Lennon did and also managed to reach the Champions League a season earlier than him also so it seems you have chosen to forget quite a lot about Lennon’s early ventures with Celtic in Europe. Edited October 28, 2022 by Jinky67 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangemouth Bairn Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: Then you will be well aware and in the interest of drawing fair comparison that Neil Lennon didn’t really start to get it right in Europe until his 3rd season in charge. The first 2 seasons were a bit of a disaster tbh. His 1st season we went out at the first hurdle getting battered by Utrecht and the 2nd was the season we got put out by Sion and then reinstated to then go out again in the group stages and i also remember the chat about Lennon after our exit and the sentiment from folks like yourself was very far from Neil Lennon is a Champions League level manager…..in fact it was probably about as far from that as you could imagine Small details Kennie but they matter and in this case Ange done significantly better in his 1st season in Europe than Lennon did and also managed to reach the Champions League a season earlier than him also so it seems you have chosen to forget quite a lot about Lennon’s early ventures with Celtic in Europe. Neil Lennon’s managerial record outside of Celtic is questionable but blaming him for Scotland’s co-efficient being worse when he was Celtic manager than when Postecoglu is manager is some stretch. You obviously don’t like the guy, probably down to the Terry Munro season, but at least be rational in your criticism. Edited October 28, 2022 by Grangemouth Bairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said: Neil Lennon’s managerial record outside of Celtic is questionable but blaming him for Scotland’s co-efficient being worse when he was Celtic manager than when Postecoglu is manager is some stretch. You obviously don’t like the guy, probably down to the Terry Munro season, but at least be rational in your criticism. Bud go and read my post on this page where I clearly said I enjoyed Lennon’s 1st tenure in charge and secondly where am I actually being critical of Neil Lennon here? By suggesting his 1st 2 forays into Europe were a bit disastrous? That’s just fact ffs it would be a stretch to suggest it wasn’t. The 3rd season was brilliant And why are you talking about co-efficient? Lennon didn’t fail to qualify for the Champions League due to co-efficient but due to the fact he won the league in his 2nd season and not his 1st If your going to come here and debate at least get your shit together and know these things mate or you just look stupid Edited October 28, 2022 by Jinky67 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangemouth Bairn Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: Bud go and read my post on this page where I clearly said I enjoyed Lennon’s 1st tenure in charge and secondly where am I actually being critical of Neil Lennon here? By suggesting his 1st 2 forays into Europe were a bit disastrous? That’s just fact ffs it would be a stretch to suggest it wasn’t. The 3rd season was brilliant And why are you talking about co-efficient? Lennon didn’t fail to qualify for the Champions League due to co-efficient but due to the fact he won the league in his 2nd season and not his 1st If your going to come here and debate at least get your shit together and know these things mate or you just look stupid I think you are being overly critical of Lennon - my opinion. Postecoglu’s first two seasons in Europe have been poor too. Knocked out of 3 tournaments first season and zero wins second season no matter which way the Scottish media pitch it. Appreciate the insult by the way. I’m far from stupid however it’s all about opinions and you are entitled to yours. Whether it’s needed on a football fans forum - well that’s up to you to decide what you want to call me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said: I think you are being overly critical of Lennon - my opinion. Postecoglu’s first two seasons in Europe have been poor too. Knocked out of 3 tournaments first season and zero wins second season no matter which way the Scottish media pitch it. Appreciate the insult by the way. I’m far from stupid however it’s all about opinions and you are entitled to yours. Whether it’s needed on a football fans forum - well that’s up to you to decide what you want to call me. In what way do you feel I’m being overly critical of Neil Lennon? Do you believe failing to qualify for any group stage in his 1st season or being knocked out by Sion in his 2nd not be a bit of a disaster? That’s quite a take for someone who has been quite critical of a manager currently competing in the highest tier of European Competition after just a season in charge I’m also not suggesting it hasn’t been poor, I haven’t even come close to alluding to such a thing however what I have pointed out, which is factually accurate and not an irrational take, is he is ahead of where Neil Lennon was at the same stage. And if you feel me suggesting it’s a bit stupid to enter a debate without adequate knowledge of the subject you are debating to be insulting then you are possibly too sensitive to enter the conversation in the first place…….just my opinion Edited October 28, 2022 by Jinky67 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangemouth Bairn Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: In what way do you feel I’m being overly critical of Neil Lennon? Do you believe failing to qualify for any group stage in his 1st season or being knocked out by Sion in his 2nd not be a bit of a disaster? That’s quite a take for someone who has been quite critical of a manager currently competing in the highest tier of European Competition after just a season in charge I’m also not suggesting it hasn’t been poor, I haven’t even come close to alluding to such a thing however what I have pointed out, which is factually accurate and not an irrational take, is he is ahead of where Neil Lennon was at the same stage. And if you feel me suggesting it’s a bit stupid to enter a debate without adequate knowledge of the subject you are debating to be insulting then you are possibly too sensitive to enter the conversation in the first place. I don’t think Lennon was great in either of his first two seasons. In fact you are correct he is was poor. Postecoglu (or Ange as you seem to be on first name terms with him) has also been very, very poor in his first 2 seasons. He’ll defo get a crack at the Champions League next season as he has zero competition and will win the league (I’ll go all out here and say Celtic would win the league with *you or I as manager as the other teams are so bad). Fair enough, I’m just a sensitive wee soul. *feel free to correct to me or you as I appreciate I am stupid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Grangemouth Bairn said: I don’t think Lennon was great in either of his first two seasons. In fact you are correct he is was poor. Postecoglu (or Ange as you seem to be on first name terms with him) has also been very, very poor in his first 2 seasons. He’ll defo get a crack at the Champions League next season as he has zero competition and will win the league (I’ll go all out here and say Celtic would win the league with *you or I as manager as the other teams are so bad). Fair enough, I’m just a sensitive wee soul. *feel free to correct to me or you as I appreciate I am stupid. So I wasn’t being overly critical after all, glad we cleared that up And Ange is just faster and simpler to type than Postecoglou, simple logic and not in anyway a suggestion that we are on first name terms 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangemouth Bairn Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: So I wasn’t being overly critical after all, glad we cleared that up And Ange is just faster and simpler to type than Postecoglou, simple logic and not in anyway a suggestion that we are on first name terms Well, you were in the way you were making out Postecoglu’s record in Europe was better when it isn’t. But let’s agree to disagree as we won’t get anywhere fast. Grand, that’ll be why you refer to Juranovic as ‘Jura’ too - I thought you maybe knew them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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