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Stephen O’Donnell


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18 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

It's a bit weird that some people will continue to criticise SoD for his attacking 'weaknesses', despite him having a tremendous game last night defensively. 

Patterson gets rave reviews from some for doing one thing decently against Moldova, but having a bit of a nightmare defensively. 

Thank God Patterson wasn't playing last night, Austria would have had a field day down our right. 

It’s probably safe to say you could argue SO’D/Patterson all day long. The same debate’s been had over Robertson and Tierney in the past but as luck would have it, Tierney’s at least versatile enough to play other positions.

It’s easy to say Austria would have had a field day down Scotland’s right the other night had Patterson played, but at the same time it could easily have been the case that Patterson playing might have resulted in Scotland being more of a threat and created more chances from the right. 

That said, I like SO’D. For the most part I think he’s a good reliable out-and-out right back. My gripe is that I think by playing SO’D in certain games, Steve Clarke is showing too much respect to opponents who I don’t believe to be streets ahead of Scotland or necessitate the selection of a good reliable defence-minded right back. However, I am equally of the opinion that Patterson really needs to be playing more club football to nail down that spot.

Edited by 8MileBU
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22 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Bollocks.

The VLs who are foaming at the mouth about SOD on Twitter dot com are frequently using "Motherwell" pejoratively. Even more so when judging him against a player who happens to play for Rangers.

I don't think this argument holds much weight. You're really suggesting that people are at all critical of O'Donnell simply because he plays for Motherwell, rather than his performances?

In the last year or so we've had the likes of: Gordon, Dykes, McKenna, Gallagher, Nisbet, P. McGinn, Ferguson, Clark, Kelly, Considine, Fleck, McBurnie, McLean, Shankland etc. all of whom, like SOD, have either established themselves in the SPFL at teams outwith Rangers and Celtic or play for clubs not exactly considered to be the best.

Out of them all, those that get criticism receive it based on their performances for Scotland and it has nothing to do with who they play for.

We can use Gallagher as a great example that pretty much blows your theory out of the water. Gallagher was an integral part of the defence that saw us qualify for Euro 2020. He received praise and acknowledgement for his displays in a Scotland jersey. Who did he play for at the time?

Edited by AJF
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14 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Is this something they have said? Or conjecture?

I dont think that is something they have actually said, so we don't know what there looking for. Bar a right back.

They could get O'donnell for next to nothing. But their not interested, no team in England is.

Well no, its just blindingly obvious as hes been a regular for Everton for over a decade and is their captain. 

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13 minutes ago, AJF said:

I don't think this argument holds much weight. You're really suggesting that people are at all critical of O'Donnell simply because he plays for Motherwell, rather than his performances?

In the last year or so we've had the likes of: Gordon, Dykes, McKenna, Gallagher, Nisbet, P. McGinn, Ferguson, Clark, Kelly, Considine, Fleck, McBurnie, McLean, Shankland etc. all of whom, like SOD, have either established themselves in the SPFL at teams outwith Rangers and Celtic or play for clubs not exactly considered to be the best.

Out of them all, those that get criticism receive it based on their performances for Scotland and it has nothing to do with who they play for.

We can use Gallagher as a great example that pretty much blows your theory out of the water. Gallagher was an integral part of the defence that saw us qualify for Euro 2020. He received praise and acknowledgement for his displays in a Scotland jersey. Who did he play for at the time?

Not really because there was still plenty of criticism of Gallagher getting a call up from certain quarters on account of him playing for Motherwell and players from "that level" shouldn't be getting a call up. What can I say, people just have their prejudices.

People were getting bent out of shape at the thought of Gallagher "a Motherwell level player" being called up ahead of Cooper on account of him playing in the Barclays.

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8 minutes ago, AJF said:

I don't think this argument holds much weight. You're really suggesting that people are at all critical of O'Donnell simply because he plays for Motherwell, rather than his performances?

In the last year or so we've had the likes of: Gordon, Dykes, McKenna, Gallagher, Nisbet, P. McGinn, Ferguson, Clark, Kelly, Considine, Fleck, McBurnie, McLean, Shankland etc. all of whom, like SOD, have either established themselves in the SPFL at teams outwith Rangers and Celtic or play for clubs not exactly considered to be the best.

Out of them all, those that get criticism receive it based on their performances for Scotland and it has nothing to do with who they play for.

We can use Gallagher as a great example that pretty much blows your theory out of the water. Gallagher was an integral part of the defence that saw us qualify for Euro 2020. He received praise and acknowledgement for his displays in a Scotland jersey. Who did he play for at the time?

Obviously this is a bit "if yer auntie had baws" but if Patterson's played a very bit part for St Mirren/Livingston/Dundee but can't hold down a spot in their first team then nobody gives a f**k that he's not playing for Scotland. A quick glance at Transfermarkt would suggest he's played a total of 5 games in the top flight here. Yes he scored in Europe. Yes he looks like a very talented player. But you can't, with a straight face, say that the number of games he's involved in at club level merits being a nailed on starter in the national side. 

Also Gallagher was absolute dugmeat for a year at club level.

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2 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Not really because there was still plenty of criticism of Gallagher getting a call up from certain quarters on account of him playing for Motherwell and players from "that level" shouldn't be getting a call up. What can I say, people just have their prejudices.

People were getting bent out of shape at the thought of Gallagher "a Motherwell level player" being called up ahead of Cooper on account of him playing in the Barclays.

so honest question, would you rather have Gallacher or Cooper in your team this year?

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8 minutes ago, red23 said:

so honest question, would you rather have Gallacher or Cooper in your team this year?

Well, Gallagher's an "Aberdeen-level" player now so in all honesty I'd side with Cooper.

Edited by capt_oats
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5 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Not really because there was still plenty of criticism of Gallagher getting a call up from certain quarters on account of him playing for Motherwell and players from "that level" shouldn't be getting a call up. What can I say, people just have their prejudices.

People were getting bent out of shape at the thought of Gallagher "a Motherwell level player" being called up ahead of Cooper on account of him playing in the Barclays.

There is a difference between fans complaining about who gets called up compared to fans criticising their performance in said matches though.

Regardless if people didn't think Gallagher deserved to be called up or not, the fact is he was and he was widely praised for his performances which means fans are capable of recognising good performances despite who they play for which, as I said, does not suit your claim that SOD is only criticised because he plays for Motherwell considering Gallagher surely would've received the same treatment if it were true?

2 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

Obviously this is a bit "if yer auntie had baws" but if Patterson's played a very bit part for St Mirren/Livingston/Dundee but can't hold down a spot in their first team then nobody gives a f**k that he's not playing for Scotland. A quick glance at Transfermarkt would suggest he's played a total of 5 games in the top flight here. Yes he scored in Europe. Yes he looks like a very talented player. But you can't, with a straight face, say that the number of games he's involved in at club level merits being a nailed on starter in the national side. 

Also Gallagher was absolute dugmeat for a year at club level.

I've never claimed Patterson should be a nailed on starter, and I went as far to say that I think SOD has control of the position. What I am saying though, is that I feel we are close to a situation where I don't believe there is a material drop off in quality between SOD and Patterson and, if it were me, I'd use this as an opportunity to get him meaningful game time and established at international level.

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The Paterson v ODonnell debate is getting a wee bit tiresome...unlike the Tierney v Robertson debate, neither of our right backs could be considered to be anything like world class at this current time.

 

To me, right back (or right wing back) has been such an obvious problem position for Scotland for years now. I can't think of a player with such limited ability, amassing the amount of Scotland caps that SOD has...and that pretty much says it all for me. That we now have folk losing the plot because a player with 5 appearances for Sevco isn't an automatic pick, probably says more about the intelligence of that clubs fanbase than anything else.

 

SOD played OK the other night but at the same time you could clearly see that the Austrians were pretty happy for him to have the  ball in almost any area of the pitch, as he is clearly our weakest player. I really hope Patterson or the boy at Aberdeen or Bologna can help us sort out that side of the park in the long term.

Edited by 0Neils40yarder
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1 hour ago, well fan for life said:

Obviously this is a bit "if yer auntie had baws" but if Patterson's played a very bit part for St Mirren/Livingston/Dundee but can't hold down a spot in their first team then nobody gives a f**k that he's not playing for Scotland.

 

In all fairness, I would be prepared to bet a fair amount that if Patterson was on the books of any of those clubs, he’d be playing fairly regularly - certainly he’d have a lot more than the 5 games he has played.

I like SOD, I think he gets a lot of unfair criticism, and also some extremely fair criticism. I think that @AJF is right that we’re almost nearing the end of his shelf life as Scotland’s first choice right back, but I think he’ll be around the squad for a while yet as an experienced head to call on if needed. 

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1 hour ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

The Paterson v ODonnell debate is getting a wee bit tiresome...unlike the Tierney v Robertson debate, neither of our right backs could be considered to be anything like world class at this current time.

 

 

That's an interesting statement, and one that gets accepted as fact mainly because of Robertson's Liverpool form. 

In all honesty, he's never, ever reached that form with Scotland. He's quick, and that actually covers quite a few errors that he makes. 

Much of his distribution...short passes and crosses.....has been shocking. Especially for a 'world class' player. 

Just to bring some of the wild SoD accusations into context. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

The Paterson v ODonnell debate is getting a wee bit tiresome...unlike the Tierney v Robertson debate, neither of our right backs could be considered to be anything like world class at this current time.

 

To me, right back (or right wing back) has been such an obvious problem position for Scotland for years now. I can't think of a player with such limited ability, amassing the amount of Scotland caps that SOD has...and that pretty much says it all for me. That we now have folk losing the plot because a player with 5 appearances for Sevco isn't an automatic pick, probably says more about the intelligence of that clubs fanbase than anything else.

 

SOD played OK the other night but at the same time you could clearly see that the Austrians were pretty happy for him to have the  ball in almost any area of the pitch, as he is clearly our weakest player. I really hope Patterson or the boy at Aberdeen or Bologna can help us sort out that side of the park in the long term.

The boy at Bologna plays left back...

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1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said:

That's an interesting statement, and one that gets accepted as fact mainly because of Robertson's Liverpool form. 

In all honesty, he's never, ever reached that form with Scotland. He's quick, and that actually covers quite a few errors that he makes. 

Much of his distribution...short passes and crosses.....has been shocking. Especially for a 'world class' player. 

Just to bring some of the wild SoD accusations into context. 

 

 

I thought Robertson was one of our top performers at the Euros...

 

...what I meant was that the left back discussion is a really good debate about two very good footballers...while the right back debate is all a bit shite

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9 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

...and is also capable at right back

Didn't realise he has been playing right back in Italy. However I hope your not suggesting we do something like we did with Andy Robertson... 

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8 minutes ago, Robin.Hood said:

Didn't realise he has been playing right back in Italy. However I hope your not suggesting we do something like we did with Andy Robertson... 

I just know that he is apparently as adept with his right foot as he is with his left and is comfortable playing on either side of the defence 

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41 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Indeed hes played right back for hearts, and says himself he can play there.

I look forward to him playing in right back for Scotland. With Robertson and Tierney pretty much cemented left back / wing back I'm sure we will see Hickey at right back/ wing back some day. Looking good for the future 😀

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4 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

That's an interesting statement, and one that gets accepted as fact mainly because of Robertson's Liverpool form. 

In all honesty, he's never, ever reached that form with Scotland. He's quick, and that actually covers quite a few errors that he makes. 

Much of his distribution...short passes and crosses.....has been shocking. Especially for a 'world class' player. 

Just to bring some of the wild SoD accusations into context. 

 

 

His shooting is not that good either !

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