Kelty Hearts Thread

[leomessi1984]

13 hours ago, KH4 said:

It's a question you can approach from a number of different perspectives. Just over a decade ago Dunfermline were in the Premier League and Kelty were in the Juniors. If you'd told a Kelty supporter that within 10 years they'd be visiting East End Park for a league game they'd have expected you to drive off in a clown car. That being said there are certain issues and weaknesses within the Scottish game that have given rise to events that on paper seem incredible. Cowdenbeath went from propping up the entire league to being in the same league as Rangers, Hearts and Hibs at the same time. They are now in the Lowland League with Gretna, who's journey from English non league football to where they are now included a detour to the Premier League, the Scottish Cup Final and Europe. Former Highland League clubs have been regular fixtures in the top flight and since Meadowbank became Livingston they've went from the bottom to the top - twice. This season it's looking likely a club that was amatuer in 2019 will achieve its third successive promotion and become a Premier League club. Scottish football really is a funny old game, and that's before you take into account the seismic changes happening below League Two, changes that will slowly change the landscape of Scottish football further in the years ahead. 

I mention all this because against this backdrop of semi organised chaos, a lot of people expected the sheiks and the oligarchs that were obviously pumping billions into Kelty to strap a rocket to the club and take them beyond the moon and out towards Mars. The reality is that as the only village club in the League it was never and should never have been about that. In my view it was about finding a realistic level that Kelty can comfortably and sustainably compete at, and the truth is I don't think anyone can be certain exactly what that level is. Getting out the Lowland League was bloody difficult and thankfully we got the jump before the floodgates opened. If you've ever seen two obese people trying to get through a small doorway at the same time it'll give you some idea of what that particular journey is going to look like in the years ahead. A lot of people also mistakenly believe that there isn't much daylight between League One and League Two. This definitely isn't the case, the League features big clubs on their uppers from the championship, and for the most part the best of the rest. 

Personally, this season was about consolidating our place by hook or by crook, and it looks as though it's mission accomplished. The fact that either Clyde or Peterhead look like posting an historically low points total for the 9th placed club has helped ease the pressure, but I'll happily take it. At points the squad has looked a bit stretched, you can use that as an argument for leaving the manager alone or make a case for having someone who can get the best out of what he's got. Personally, I think the squad has got talented players that can compete at this level, whether they've got enough of them to have done any better is another question but that's a judgement call I fully trust the club to make - they've earned that by delivering when and where it matters. 

Given how mental Scottish Football is it isn't outwith the realm of possibility that we have a decent season and end up in the championship. I don't think that we'll ever be an established championship club, and time will tell whether we survive League One long term. I'll tell you what though, we should throw the kitchen sink at avoiding League Two. There are a number of clubs who's position as a League Club will become increasingly threatened over the next few years and Kelty are by no means out the woods. It's great that we've got that buffer between us and the trapdoor, and ideally I'd like it to stay that way. Next year will be tough, it's possible we won't have those big gates against both Dunfermline and Falkirk, although on the plus side it doesn't look like there are any fallen giants coming down or any unknown upstarts coming up. Nobody will be under any illusions next year, that's for sure. 

Tremendous post & puts things into context! Onwards & upwards for next season and hopefully start taking these three points instead of chucking them last ten rest of the season. Last week apart, even when losing, we've always held our own. Should be a much changed team next season also.

[Otis Blue]

On 18/03/2023 at 23:23, KH4 said:

..... That being said there are certain issues and weaknesses within the Scottish game that have given rise to events that on paper seem incredible. Cowdenbeath went from propping up the entire league to being in the same league as Rangers, Hearts and Hibs at the same time. They are now in the Lowland League with Gretna, who's journey from English non league football to where they are now included a detour to the Premier League, the Scottish Cup Final and Europe. Former Highland League clubs have been regular fixtures in the top flight and since Meadowbank became Livingston they've went from the bottom to the top - twice. This season it's looking likely a club that was amatuer in 2019 will achieve its third successive promotion and become a Premier League club. Scottish football really is a funny old game, and that's before you take into account the seismic changes happening below League Two, changes that will slowly change the landscape of Scottish football further in the years ahead. 

I mention all this because against this backdrop of semi organised chaos, a lot of people expected the sheiks and the oligarchs that were obviously pumping billions into Kelty to strap a rocket to the club and take them beyond the moon and out towards Mars. 

Given how mental Scottish Football is it isn't outwith the realm of possibility that we have a decent season and end up in the championship. I don't think that we'll ever be an established championship club, and time will tell whether we survive League One long term. I'll tell you what though, we should throw the kitchen sink at avoiding League Two. There are a number of clubs who's position as a League Club will become increasingly threatened over the next few years and Kelty are by no means out the woods .....

Enjoyed that @KH4, interesting read and to get a nicely balanced Kelty perspective.

I do struggle with the concept of "financially assisted village sides" finding a short-lived route to the higher reaches of our game - and yes I'm talking Gretna here, which as everyone knew was the proverbial and embarrassing bubble waiting to burst, which it duly did.  Likewise, I struggle with what's happening at Darvel and also with Queens Park - again, I just can't see how that is sustainable in the long term - they're sitting top of the Championship, bossing that league and they got somewhere around only 600 for their last home game, and yet they can afford to employ a highly paid CEO like Leanne Dempster as well as attractive player wages.  I just don't see what this brings to our game.  QP's sugar daddy funds will eventually dry up and the club will ultimately find its own level again - meanwhile other more established  and larger community clubs will no doubt suffer in the process of one man's ego trip.

Up here (unlike say England) outside of the four big cities we have precious few "large towns" and I think that it helps our game if our senior leagues also reflect both our centres of population and crucially the geographical distribution.  For instance, I was pleased to see larger towns such as Inverness and Peterhead gaining entry to the senior leagues.  Now I'm not professing to know the perfect solution here (which also ensures sporting integrity) but adding artificially and short-term funded village sides which can only ever bring a few hundred folk to the game doesn't I think particularly help.

I'm not saying such sides shouldn't exist/compete but its all about competing at the right level in the pyramid.  I'm not expressing myself well here but I think my gripe is mainly about the funding of such village sides - I really don't like the ... "my personal pet project" ... thing propelling sides artificially up the league pyramid.  If a "village side" can rise up through the pyramid through its own organically funded means by way of shrewd player recruitment and good coaching then that's fine, and the larger town sides who might lose out as a consequence have only themselves to blame for under-performing.

Of course, this also leads on to the wider question of how funding is shared (or not well shared) down through our league structures by the SPFL and the malaise which our game suffers from today due to the overpowering financial dominance of the OF - but those are other matters for another day.

[Zanetti]

27 minutes ago, Otis Blue said:

Likewise, I struggle with what's happening at Darvel and also with Queens Park - again, I just can't see how that is sustainable in the long term - they're sitting top of the Championship, bossing that league and they got somewhere around only 600 for their last home game, and yet they can afford to employ a highly paid CEO like Leanne Dempster as well as attractive player wages.  I just don't see what this brings to our game.  QP's sugar daddy funds will eventually dry up and the club will ultimately find its own level again - meanwhile other more established  and larger community clubs will no doubt suffer in the process of one man's ego trip.

I don't know enough about any other club to comment, but I think your understanding of what's happening at QP right now is somewhat lacking.

Regarding attendances, we're currently playing 25 miles away from Glasgow, primarily on Friday nights - every single match being away from home is obviously going to have an impact on how many people turn up. We played 2 games at Hampden in December and the crowds were much better, with the league fixture against Hamilton attracting 3k+ people.

There's obviously been a huge amount of investment off the park, with the likes of Dempster and Beuker no doubt commanding hefty wages, but the hope is that their expertise will be able to build something actually is sustainable. Despite this, we've hardly spent a fortune on players; when we got promoted to the Championship we added one player from Peterhead, one from newly relegated Dunfermline, and two loanees to a starting 11 that finished 4th in League One. I'd imagine plenty clubs would've been able to afford these guys.

We may very well "find our level" eventually, who knows? It's also possible that this mad plan might actually work out though; my understanding is that we have guaranteed funding for at least another 7 years, so it's unlikely we'll have any real understanding of how it's likely to pan out in the long run any time soon.  Either way, most of us are just enjoying the ride without worrying too much about that.

[HoBNob]

When you say one player from relegated Dunfermline, he would have been one of, if not our highest earner. 

[Salvo Montalbano]

47 minutes ago, Zanetti said:

...with the league fixture against Hamilton attracting 3k+ people.

... one from newly relegated Dunfermline, ... I'd imagine plenty clubs would've been able to afford these guys

First point sounds good, but interesting that you didn't mention that a lot of tickets were given out for free for that fixture.

Second point, he was one of our higher earners, and one we were desperate to keep hold of. Despite this, QP were able to agree a pre-contract before the play off win against us (which a lot of people put in part down to Dom Thomas not playing, as he'd been our main creative spark all season) so the idea that he was on the radar of a average spending League One or Championship outfits is well off the mark.

[Zanetti]

1 hour ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

First point sounds good, but interesting that you didn't mention that a lot of tickets were given out for free for that fixture.

Second point, he was one of our higher earners, and one we were desperate to keep hold of. Despite this, QP were able to agree a pre-contract before the play off win against us (which a lot of people put in part down to Dom Thomas not playing, as he'd been our main creative spark all season) so the idea that he was on the radar of a average spending League One or Championship outfits is well off the mark.

That's how you grow a fan base though isn't it? Engage with the local community, get the kids along, and hopefully they come back. The following week we played Montrose in the challenge cup, a considerably less important fixture, and without the freebies there were still a lot more home fans than any other game this season.

I'm fairly confident that Thomas will be our highest paid player, to be fair, and I'm delighted we tapped him up as it meant Yogi didn't play him against us. The point I was trying to make was that even though we've clearly spent a lot of money behind the scenes, we've not gone out and spent millions to bring in top talent. On the pitch the group of players we have is still somewhat overachieving this season.

[Otis Blue]

2 hours ago, Zanetti said:

I don't know enough about any other club to comment, but I think your understanding of what's happening at QP right now is somewhat lacking.

Regarding attendances, we're currently playing 25 miles away from Glasgow, primarily on Friday nights - every single match being away from home is obviously going to have an impact on how many people turn up. We played 2 games at Hampden in December and the crowds were much better, with the league fixture against Hamilton attracting 3k+ people.

There's obviously been a huge amount of investment off the park, with the likes of Dempster and Beuker no doubt commanding hefty wages, but the hope is that their expertise will be able to build something actually is sustainable. Despite this, we've hardly spent a fortune on players; when we got promoted to the Championship we added one player from Peterhead, one from newly relegated Dunfermline, and two loanees to a starting 11 that finished 4th in League One. I'd imagine plenty clubs would've been able to afford these guys.

We may very well "find our level" eventually, who knows? It's also possible that this mad plan might actually work out though; my understanding is that we have guaranteed funding for at least another 7 years, so it's unlikely we'll have any real understanding of how it's likely to pan out in the long run any time soon.  Either way, most of us are just enjoying the ride without worrying too much about that.

OK, I'll give you that playing your home games in Larbert isn't ideal at the moment, but that's due to the mishandling of the well-paid Dempster and her cronies with Lesser H not being ready in time.  I'd have thought that you could have found an alternative temporary home base much closer to Glasgow surely.

As the Pars lads have been saying, bringing in the player from Dunfermline (Thomas) was well above what most Championship and certainly L1 clubs could afford.  Rumour also had it that my mob (QOS) were in the market for Grant Savoury (ex Peterhead) but were outbid by QP on wages.  Not to mention the striker Murray and a manager in Coyle that I'm sure we couldn't have afforded either.

I don't want an established side like QP to fail, particularly with all their history, but these short-term (7 years you say?) ego-based financial fantasy land projects (although much loved by the media) don't fill me with much in the way of confidence, nor do they particularly help our struggling game in the long run.

[leomessi1984]

I think you'll see a more sustainable approach from Kelty next season, albeit still strongly supported by the owner. We won't be fishing two leagues up for players anymore & more likely vying for top young talent not quite ready for the top sides as well as some experienced pros fir good wages vs average at this level.

[KH4]

9 hours ago, Otis Blue said:

Enjoyed that @KH4, interesting read and to get a nicely balanced Kelty perspective.

I do struggle with the concept of "financially assisted village sides" finding a short-lived route to the higher reaches of our game - and yes I'm talking Gretna here, which as everyone knew was the proverbial and embarrassing bubble waiting to burst, which it duly did.  Likewise, I struggle with what's happening at Darvel and also with Queens Park - again, I just can't see how that is sustainable in the long term - they're sitting top of the Championship, bossing that league and they got somewhere around only 600 for their last home game, and yet they can afford to employ a highly paid CEO like Leanne Dempster as well as attractive player wages.  I just don't see what this brings to our game.  QP's sugar daddy funds will eventually dry up and the club will ultimately find its own level again - meanwhile other more established  and larger community clubs will no doubt suffer in the process of one man's ego trip.

Up here (unlike say England) outside of the four big cities we have precious few "large towns" and I think that it helps our game if our senior leagues also reflect both our centres of population and crucially the geographical distribution.  For instance, I was pleased to see larger towns such as Inverness and Peterhead gaining entry to the senior leagues.  Now I'm not professing to know the perfect solution here (which also ensures sporting integrity) but adding artificially and short-term funded village sides which can only ever bring a few hundred folk to the game doesn't I think particularly help.

I'm not saying such sides shouldn't exist/compete but its all about competing at the right level in the pyramid.  I'm not expressing myself well here but I think my gripe is mainly about the funding of such village sides - I really don't like the ... "my personal pet project" ... thing propelling sides artificially up the league pyramid.  If a "village side" can rise up through the pyramid through its own organically funded means by way of shrewd player recruitment and good coaching then that's fine, and the larger town sides who might lose out as a consequence have only themselves to blame for under-performing.

Of course, this also leads on to the wider question of how funding is shared (or not well shared) down through our league structures by the SPFL and the malaise which our game suffers from today due to the overpowering financial dominance of the OF - but those are other matters for another day.

I don't know enough about how Queens Park are run to speak with any authority as to whether they're "sustainable" but I think your concerns are fairly widely shared, even among supporters of clubs who've been beneficiaries of the old Championship Manager cheatcode. 

You'll always find a defensive attitude among supporters when people are lining up to tell them that everything that is good and sacred about their club is worthless because some short sighted businessman has got carried away. That doesn't mean they are deluded though. Typically you'll find that accomplishments are seen within the context of having some degree of financial advantage over other clubs at that level. Success is still meaningful for these clubs, but getting by with a little help from your friends is always different from having a productive youth system and a well organised half time raffle. That isn't to say that clubs with backing aren't well run. Money certainly helps but if the driving forces behind a club don't know what they're doing it either won't get off the ground or it'll be very short lived.

The idealist in me isn't in love with the idea of a relatively small time businessman spending a relatively small amount of money and catapulting a very small club up the leagues. I don't see anything wrong with it though. If a club is being edged out by a club with a significantly smaller fanbase, the smaller club either has a very generous backer or the bigger clubs on its backside. You don't have to go too far down the pyramid to get to the stage where actually having some money goes a long way, but I don't think you can blame those who actually want to invest in football for that. 

There are examples I'm comfortable with, and others less so. I don't think we can tar every club with the same lazy brush. Gretna were the worst case scenario - they were one penalty shoot-out away from it being impossible to write a worse example. Non league to cup final in four years and then when the money stopped the whole thing collapsed. Then you have Queens Park, a club with a truly special place in football history playing in a big city with real potential for growth. If you were going to invest money in a small club, they'd be as good a choice as any. 

As far as Keltys situation goes, I'm intensely relaxed about it. If they ever found themselves in a position that they'd never have reacher without some backing, it may be different. I don't think anyone that knows the club well would come to the conclusion that Kelty in League One is pushing it though. When you look at clubs we've passed along the way, there aren't any we couldn't compete with if we all started from scratch tomorrow. As I mentioned previously, getting out the Lowland League was a sliding doors moment for the club. Unless there's reform that league will become a graveyard for clubs that probably shouldn't be in it, and if I had the money id probably have spent it myself to clear that particular hurdle when we did. Getting out of League Two was also a very sensible move in terms of medium term planning. What happens next is crucial, and will probably determine the context in which our progress up to this point will be seen. In a year or so this Kelty team will look very different, and it's wise that any significant changes are made while we don't have the immediate trapdoor of falling out the league to worry about. 

One interesting aspect to this season is sentiment towards Kelty from other clubs supporters. If we take Dunfermline as an example, generally speaking the fact that a Fife club was the first ambitious Junior team to go senior was viewed fairly positively. When they realised we were scheduled in for a league fixture, nobody wanted to admit that theyd enjoyed a nice afternoon along at New Central Park anymore. 

 

[HoBNob]

5 hours ago, KH4 said:

One interesting aspect to this season is sentiment towards Kelty from other clubs supporters. If we take Dunfermline as an example, generally speaking the fact that a Fife club was the first ambitious Junior team to go senior was viewed fairly positively. When they realised we were scheduled in for a league fixture, nobody wanted to admit that theyd enjoyed a nice afternoon along at New Central Park anymore. 

Eh? On the contrary there's lots of Pars fans I know who make no secret of going along to Kelty games prior to this season. 

 

[Skyline Drifter]

19 hours ago, Zanetti said:

I don't know enough about any other club to comment, but I think your understanding of what's happening at QP right now is somewhat lacking.

Regarding attendances, we're currently playing 25 miles away from Glasgow, primarily on Friday nights - every single match being away from home is obviously going to have an impact on how many people turn up. We played 2 games at Hampden in December and the crowds were much better, with the league fixture against Hamilton attracting 3k+ people.

There's obviously been a huge amount of investment off the park, with the likes of Dempster and Beuker no doubt commanding hefty wages, but the hope is that their expertise will be able to build something actually is sustainable. Despite this, we've hardly spent a fortune on players; when we got promoted to the Championship we added one player from Peterhead, one from newly relegated Dunfermline, and two loanees to a starting 11 that finished 4th in League One. I'd imagine plenty clubs would've been able to afford these guys.

We may very well "find our level" eventually, who knows? It's also possible that this mad plan might actually work out though; my understanding is that we have guaranteed funding for at least another 7 years, so it's unlikely we'll have any real understanding of how it's likely to pan out in the long run any time soon.  Either way, most of us are just enjoying the ride without worrying too much about that.

 

16 hours ago, Zanetti said:

That's how you grow a fan base though isn't it? Engage with the local community, get the kids along, and hopefully they come back. The following week we played Montrose in the challenge cup, a considerably less important fixture, and without the freebies there were still a lot more home fans than any other game this season.

I'm fairly confident that Thomas will be our highest paid player, to be fair, and I'm delighted we tapped him up as it meant Yogi didn't play him against us. The point I was trying to make was that even though we've clearly spent a lot of money behind the scenes, we've not gone out and spent millions to bring in top talent. On the pitch the group of players we have is still somewhat overachieving this season.

I think to be fair Queen's Park are a whole different category to the likes of the "village club plaything" we saw with Gretna and are seeing with Darvel (and possibly Cove and Kelty, not sure where their funding comes from, although Cove are a city club too of course). The Gretna model was very clearly a house of cards from the get go but outside of Queen of the South fans (who were quick to look more deeply as they were an existential threat to us) there wasn't much comment on it and Mileson had the media eating out of his hand. The problem was he didn't have the real wealth, or health, to sustain his plans even into the medium term. I'm not sure if Darvel do either. Not sure how much John Gall is actually worth but he also has a major finger in the Kilmarnock pie too (quite literally as it happens). Darvel may reach the SPFL in 2 or 3 years. Do they have the ambition and structure to go further up?

Queen's Park are different because (i) they have a rich history of being a big club in Scotland and only drifted away from that in the professional era because of their steadfast refusal to change the way they ran, (ii) they are a city based club and there is a theoretical potential for them to capture a sustainable crowd base in a way that Gretna and Darvel never could because they simply aren't in big enough population centres, Queen's Park attaining the level of say Partick Thistle is potentially achievable, and (iii) to be fair Willie Haughey, who definitely does have major wealth, and is a long term major supporter of Scottish football, isn't the suspicious fly by night character the likes of Mileson was and clearly has entered into a medium term funding plan. They also had Hampden / have Lesser Hampden which for all the mess the new development has become, should be a major asset.

However, the idea that in any sort of generation or two Queen's Park could be "sustainable" at current levels seems pretty farcical. And the suggestion that success hasn't been bought on the back of paying players unsustainable wages is completely fanciful. I've no idea if we were interested in Grant Savoury in the summer or not but I know they significantly outbid us on other players in the last couple of years, even when two divisions below. That said, it's true they haven't exactly signed a team of superstars in the way Gretna did. Simon Murray was a banner signing at the time, a player who should have been plying his trade at least two divisions higher. Bob McHugh too would likely have got a higher division club at the time he went there if he'd wanted one. Dom Thomas is a very obvious "franchise" signing.

Queens Park's most recently published accounts to Dec 21 (1st time I've ever seen a football club with a mid season financial year end incidentally, that's very odd) show a loss of over £1m. It lacks specific detail and there's reference to significant legal costs regarding Lesser Hampden being included plus the costs of playing with no crowds (though given Queen's Park's division at the time and general low attendances, that's not losing more than £100k I'd imagine, and there should have been major six figure Covid grants in the period also). The year to December 20 also reported a £200k loss though that year would have been heavily Covid corrupted. That said, most payroll would have been covered by furlough. It will be interesting to see what the December 22 accounts show but the numbers at the moment suggest it's a very long way from being sustainable. Granted that promotion to the Premier will increase league funding by at least £1m but if playing at Lesser Hampden then the capacity will severely limit the ability for higher gates. Anything short of promotion will be way short of sustainable. If Haughey's budgeting to fund that then that's fine (as long as it's not in the form of loans that will cripple the club in future but there's no sign of loans in the published accounts so presumably it isn't) but it's about making sure the club has a planned strategy for returning to natural level when he does go that's the difficult bit. Countless clubs before have run into difficulty when funding dries up without succession planning, due to illness or unexpected death, etc. Gretna are the most obvious but it happened to us to an extent when Davie Rae stopped sticking money in, it happened to Morton when Dougie Rae got old and fell ill, etc, etc. Even on a whole different scale, Rangers. If you've got a pile of players under contract and the funding unexpectedly disappears quickly it's a major problem. Given Lesser Hampden's size then there's limited potential for QP to lift gate income from attendances. I assume there's no longer an income stream from the main Hampden Stadium? What other income streams will Queen's Park actually have to "build something that is actually sustainable"? What am I missing?

[KH4]

6 hours ago, Grant228 said:

Eh? On the contrary there's lots of Pars fans I know who make no secret of going along to Kelty games prior to this season. 

 

But now we're "rivals" you wouldn't p*ss on us if we burst into flames. I get, that's fine. 

With friends like these eh? 

[HoBNob]

2 hours ago, KH4 said:

But now we're "rivals" you wouldn't p*ss on us if we burst into flames. I get, that's fine. 

With friends like these eh? 

Again I'm absolutely baffled by this. I've no idea why you've put rivals in brackets, I certainly don't know any Pars fan who wishes ill on you. If Kelty were in trouble I'm sure Pars fans would be happy to help. 

Unless I'm missing something that's happened between the fanebases? 

[Rob1885]

that's some imaginary chip on your shoulder, KH4

[KH4]

24 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

Again I'm absolutely baffled by this. I've no idea why you've put rivals in brackets, I certainly don't know any Pars fan who wishes ill on you. If Kelty were in trouble I'm sure Pars fans would be happy to help. 

Unless I'm missing something that's happened between the fanebases? 

I think the only thing you're missing is that I'm being performatively obnoxious. For clarity, there isn't an issue. 

Including only Dunfermline supporters that I personally know, there has been a subtle but noticeable shift in how they discuss Kelty, but that's about the size of it. It's more interesting than anything else. It's possible that my experience as a Kelty supporter is entirely different from yours when discussing Kelty with Pars fans. It's also likely that that my "Barbara Dixon, Jim Leishman, Andrew Carnegie, your boys took a hell of a beating" routine after the goaless draw in August has rubbed people up the wrong way. 

Im going to be insufferable if we get a decent result next week. 

 

 

[Salvo Montalbano]

There was a few comments on dotnet (I know, I know) about them being a moneybags outfit and the like, and some folk were criticised for going to see them when the Pars are away but in the main most Pars fans I know like Kelty. Certainly better than Cowdenbeath, Raith and even East Fife.

[da_no_1]

FWIW I'm utterly indifferent towards Kelty although I certainly wouldn't go to their games when we were away from home but each to his own.

The only sentiment I have is that a part of me will die if wee Joe ever scores against us.

[Otis Blue]

Some good feedback being provided by @KH4 and by @Zanettihere about the "village club plaything" projects which are gaining more prevalence in our game these days, and thanks to @Skyline Drifter for his insights into the financial aspects of the recent Queens Park developments.

There's no doubt that perspective plays a part in this.  Obviously if you're a fan of such a "village club" then its natural to want to defend it and smile at the luddites, and if you're a fan of a more established "larger town" club then you're probably going to feel threatened by it (and will probably even be somewhat envious of such financial support).  I think my fear for the Scottish game is that one day we lose one of the "larger town" clubs (and yes, guess why it worries me) through the rise of the "village clubs" up through the pyramid.  The implication would be that we gain gates in the few hundreds with the loss of gates that might normally be expected to be in four figures.  Larger countries such as England wouldn't bat an eyelid at that as they have so many "large towns" such that the profile of the game wouldn't suffer with the incoming replacement clubs almost certainly also bringing four figure crowds with them.  Up here its different, we don't have many "large towns" and it would I think be a loss to our game to lose one or more of our clubs with normally four figure gates to be replaced by only few hundreds.  Having said that, I get that such a concern doesn't sit well with sporting integrity - unfortunately, I don't have a solution to offer - just a concern.

On the Queens Park situation, as @Skyline Drifter points out, whilst they should be in a more sustainable position (than a true village) being city based, I also can't see them ever exceeding (or even reaching) the potential of say Partick Thistle.  Glasgow as we all know is utterly dominated by the OF and their unhealthy allegiances and I think this will make it difficult to attract a significantly large new fanbase to QP.  Not to mention that the current redevelopment of Lesser Hampden just wouldn't support it anyway in terms of infrastructure.

[leomessi1984]

Hearing the Raith move has fallen through & Dean will still be right with us. Really hope so as he's given us so many good times & the squad needs a refresh next season.

[leomessi1984]

Who would you look to keep next season from the current crop?

Mine would be:

O'Ware. Barjo. Martin. Jamieson. Tidser. Higgy. Agyeman. Austin.  Lyon. Thomson. Campbell. Peggie.

Let go:

Philp. McNab. Cardle (retire). Strange. Cameron.

Sign:

Darge (free). Leitch (free). Megwa back on loan. Reilly (Albion). A young CM & a CB also.