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Bonnyrigg Rose 2021-22


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2 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

The LL should be relegating three from a 16 team league, sadly they're as bad as the SPFL.

Suppose they could go to three.

Need something to accelerate clubs from below getting up.

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5 minutes ago, cowdenbeath said:

The 3 clubs that have went up and gone through L2 have good financial backing.

Cove and Kelty were always going to go through that league out spending everyone.

City struggled their first year before getting decent investment.

Bonnyrigg will be a good gauge this year, a club with no obvious sugar daddy investment, just spending what they bring in.

All clubs spend money to a greater or lesser degree, that's football.  There are plenty of well resourced clubs at tiers 5 and 6, the problem is they are encountering bottlenecks to progress at those levels (LL just as guilty as the SPFL).

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3 minutes ago, Muzza81 said:

Not sure what proverbial stones I’m throwing. Cowden were an absolute gang last season and deserved to go down. No sob story here - bring it on.

FWIW, I’d support team 42 automatically relegated and team 41 in some sort of play off tbh, but that’s a few years down the line and a play off with 3 teams is messy. 

The bottom of the LL is the big issue at the minute, not League 2 clubs. All the glorified boys clubs and Uni teams clogging up the LL at the expense of great, hard working,  community club further down.

There's two issues at play here, the SPFL not auto-relegating anyone (giving failure a second chance), and the LL only relegating one (preserving weak clubs at an artificially high level).  Both are as bad as each other, and both point to each other as the reason for the self-preservation.

Something needs to change, and IMO the LL needs to set the example before there's any hope of the SPFL budging.

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12 minutes ago, Muzza81 said:

Been done to death; it absolutely shouldn’t be automatic promotion from the LL and HL. There HL doesn’t have strength and depth to support this and you’d seen very average teams promoted based on geographical location.

It absolutely shouldn’t be two automatically relegated from L2 either, why should that league compromise more than any other league.

Team 42 relegated and then the play off as it is to decide who goes up. That will work well.

A regional tier 5 could work in years to come but I can’t see there being too much appetite for it - what a league it could be though. 

Why are so many “non league” fans moonhowlers. 

1/ Only one of these "very average" teams is still in SFL2, and that's because Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic have only won promotion this season, the other 3 promoted teams have all been promoted at least once again.

2/ Totally agree with this, 2 down out of 10 is ridiculous imho.

3/ Would agree with this, perhaps team 41 involved in a play off with the loser of LL/HL play off.

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34 minutes ago, cowdenbeath said:

I would go with club 42 being relegated and the LL and HL champions playing off for their place.

Its the next progression to what we currently have.

Maybe in time it could be changed to club 41 playing in a play off.

It took England a long time for two clubs to be relegated from their L2.

Which is twice the size of ours.

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5 minutes ago, cowdenbeath said:

Can see where he is coming from the Highland League has already suffered in quality over the last 28 years with the amount of clubs they have lost.

Thing is, it's a constantly changing picture, in some years perhaps Brora would replace Elgin or Fraserburgh replace Forfar.  There won't be a constant drain on clubs and quality, same in the LL as the likes of Albion Rovers or Stirling drop out and East Kilbride or Spartans move up.

The only concern is the lop-sided nature of tier 5, with three times more clubs in the LL area.

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5 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

2/ Totally agree with this, 2 down out of 10 is ridiculous imho.

Used to happen every season in the Premier League.  Play-offs have changed the mindset.

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9 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

1/ Only one of these "very average" teams is still in SFL2, and that's because Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic have only won promotion this season, the other 3 promoted teams have all been promoted at least once again.

This isn’t a dig at the existing HL teams in the SPFL, all been positive additions. Although, have three really been promoted? That’s a bit of a stretch.

It more highlighting the imbalance in depth of the leagues and likely relegation candidates. 

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Just now, Burnieman said:

Used to happen every season in the Premier League.  Play-offs have changed the mindset.

Yes, and it was absolute carnage, with Dundee, Hearts and Hibs going up and down like yo yos, it was increased to 12 for season 1986/87, although still with 2 up and 2 down.

Because it was highly unlikely that Celtic or Rangers would get relegated, it was basically 2 down from 8/10, terrible odds.

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6 minutes ago, Muzza81 said:

This isn’t a dig at the existing HL teams in the SPFL, all been positive additions. Although, have three really been promoted? That’s a bit of a stretch.

It more highlighting the imbalance in depth of the leagues and likely relegation candidates. 

I took it he was talking about the winners of the promotion play off from tier 5 being "very average" teams. It seems he meant Highland League teams only, and Cove are now in League 1. And considering Ross County, Peterhead and ICT all started off in the lowest division on admittance, yes, you could consider them promoted

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9 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Yes, and it was absolute carnage, with Dundee, Hearts and Hibs going up and down like yo yos, it was increased to 12 for season 1986/87, although still with 2 up and 2 down.

Because it was highly unlikely that Celtic or Rangers would get relegated, it was basically 2 down from 8/10, terrible odds.

I think those clubs have all been relegated recently from a 12 team division as well.  2 from 10 adds excitement and a healthy turnover of clubs, and when you're club 41 and 42 you really no right to complain about it.

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I took it he was talking about the winners of the promotion play off from tier 5 being "very average" teams. It seems he meant Highland League teams only, and Cove are now in League 1. And considering Ross County, Peterhead and ICT all started off in the lowest division on admittance, yes, you could consider them promoted

Inverness CT weren't a Highland League team.
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Posted (edited)

I think most folk would agree on the principle that clubs who win their league should move up a tier but the next step really has to be ensuring that club 42 go down automatically and the winners of the LL/HL play-offs go up.

Like it or not, there's more anxiety from clubs about moving from tier 4 to tier 5 than there is between 1 and 2, 3 and 4, 5 and 6, etc. 

Moving to a point where both the HL and LL champions are automatically promoted might require some kind of restructure involving a bigger tier 4. And it certainly wouldn't hurt if the tier 5 leagues filled up with bigger ex-junior clubs quicker so that relegated clubs weren't looking at multiple 'two men and a dog' away crowds.

Edited by Gordon EF
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

And it certainly wouldn't hurt if the tier 5 leagues filled up with bigger ex-junior clubs quicker so that relegated clubs weren't looking at multiple 'two men and a dog' away crowds.

They should be used to that in League Two shouldn't they? I recall finding myself at Albion Rovers on a Saturday afternoon a few seasons ago and I counted 12 Elgin City fans in a crowd that numbered 327.

Out of the 16 non-guest clubs in the LL, there's probably 5 who would struggle to fill a mini-bus.

Edited by Burnieman
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47 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

They should be used to that in League Two shouldn't they? I recall finding myself at Albion Rovers on a Saturday afternoon a few seasons ago and I counted 12 Elgin City fans in a crowd that numbered 327.

Out of the 16 non-guest clubs in the LL, there's probably 5 who would struggle to fill a mini-bus.

The average away crowd is going to be higher in L2 than the LL even though there will be plenty poor crowds. There's no real point in trying to deny that or cherry pick the odd example to argue against it. The LL will be more attractive when more clubs from tier 6 have replaced more current LL clubs.

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6 hours ago, craigkillie said:


Inverness CT weren't a Highland League team.

Technically true. In effect Caley asset stripped Thistle. Played initially at Caley’s ground and then moved to the “Caledonian” stadium (goodness knows how it was allowed to be called that). Highland league heritage certainly.

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9 hours ago, Burnieman said:

Agree, that is the next step which should be implemented immediately, but we know it won't happen, League Two clubs are terrified of the consequences so won't vote for it.

Then a club 41 play-off, then two auto down, however that doesn't happen unless the next step is taken.

Do you blame the SPFL clubs for being terrified?

I'd really fear for the future of the likes of Albion Rovers should they end up in the Wosfl never mind the LL.

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