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Queen’s Park 21/22


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39 minutes ago, Dooflick said:

Absolute nonsense regarding Tony. When I was a Member, I always sat in the centre stand and never heard a bad word about the big man.

Well Tony Quinn heard the abuse, spoke to him a few times and he mentioned it more than once.

Caven got it tight from the centre stand before then.

I also remember Andy Millen getting dogs abuse from the centre stand when he signed, funnily enough that only lasted one game.

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2 hours ago, an86 said:

Guff. The centre stand was never off Quinn’s back.

In terms of McHugh, I defended him last season and didn’t think he was that bad, although I expected more. Last night was an absolute atrocity, though. No two ways about it. Personally, I cannot get passionate about the guy in any way. It’s like the music of Elbow. Middle of the road drudgery that you’ll tolerate if it’s on in the background. I don’t hate it, but wouldn’t part with money to listen to it. The problem is that McHugh is doing the equivalent of charging about £200 for one of his gigs. 

Clumsy and poorly constructed analogies aside, if the guy is on big money and not performing, then folk taking time off work for a midweek cup game are more than entitled to voice their opinions.

Clumsy and poorly constructed analogies aside, if the guy is on big money and not performing, then folk taking time off work for a midweek cup game are more than entitled to voice their opinions.   

So nothing to do with him being a professional?

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It’s great to back at the football! In the two weeks we have been back in stadia, we’ve had people disapproving  of songs with swearing and now we’ve got folk criticising other fans for expressing an opinion at a match.

 

A football match isn’t the last night at the Proms for goodness sake .

 

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8 hours ago, Young Turk said:

It’s great to back at the football! In the two weeks we have been back in stadia, we’ve had people disapproving  of songs with swearing and now we’ve got folk criticising other fans for expressing an opinion at a match.

 

A football match isn’t the last night at the Proms for goodness sake .

 

The problem is that football is still living in the past. The world is changing, people are demonstrating and marching for respect and yet football crowds think it's acceptable to be disrespectful because they've paid their money! It's not! If your employer, started screaming your rubbish and publicly calling for you to leave, you would be upset and I doubt it would make you work any better and you would be requesting your boss to be sacked. 

Why should we have to explain to kids to ignore to swearing as it's acceptable in a football ground but not acceptable nowhere else, especially not at school where monitors make sure these things no longer happen. Is that what we want, to be treated like children just because we can't act like decent adults. 

Atmosphere can be generated by supporting your team and cheering them on, not by slagging off our own players or the opposition and their supporters.

People who go to Last night at the Proms, can have a great night with a fab atmosphere, a great sing a long and a drink but don't go to football if you want this as it's not the done here, we wouldn't want that to happen.

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22 minutes ago, Reclusespider said:

The problem is that football is still living in the past. The world is changing, people are demonstrating and marching for respect and yet football crowds think it's acceptable to be disrespectful because they've paid their money! It's not! If your employer, started screaming your rubbish and publicly calling for you to leave, you would be upset and I doubt it would make you work any better and you would be requesting your boss to be sacked. 

This is a really awkward analogy that doesn't make sense. If Ellis and Dempster were both giving a player abuse from the sidelines then you might have a point, but supporters don't directly employ or manage players.

Ultimately (and I hate using this word but it's accurate) fans are paying customers, and customers DO voice their dissatisfaction in many if not all industries every day if things aren't up to the expected standard.

When the price to attend a football match continues to increase while many people's wages don't, and we see players making a decent living on the back of that, then I think you can forgive someone for getting frustrated when an individual is contributing absolutely nothing towards the product they're paying their hard earned money for.

I don't think personal abuse is ever acceptable, but if a player can't take being told that something they did "was fucking shite" when they can't get even the basics right then they're either a bit too sensitive or in the wrong job altogether. 

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1 hour ago, Reclusespider said:

The problem is that football is still living in the past. The world is changing, people are demonstrating and marching for respect and yet football crowds think it's acceptable to be disrespectful because they've paid their money! It's not! If your employer, started screaming your rubbish and publicly calling for you to leave, you would be upset and I doubt it would make you work any better and you would be requesting your boss to be sacked. 

Why should we have to explain to kids to ignore to swearing as it's acceptable in a football ground but not acceptable nowhere else, especially not at school where monitors make sure these things no longer happen. Is that what we want, to be treated like children just because we can't act like decent adults. 

Atmosphere can be generated by supporting your team and cheering them on, not by slagging off our own players or the opposition and their supporters.

People who go to Last night at the Proms, can have a great night with a fab atmosphere, a great sing a long and a drink but don't go to football if you want this as it's not the done here, we wouldn't want that to happen.

While my initial post was meant to be a flippant quip, but I respectfully disagree with all of this. 

 

Football is tied to the past - it’s nostalgia driven. That’s why at the 150 celebrations we talked about being the first club to do X,Y and Z. We had a throwback kit. Fans talk about promotion seasons of the past. Celtic fans go on about 67 and England trumpet 66 every time there is a major tournament etc, etc. 

 

The world is changing heaven knows it’s changed massively in the last 18 months, however, to compare the plight of minorities and their fight for parity to criticising a player is stretch and a half. Having a go at player isn’t a hate crime. An absurd dichotomy. As for employers shouting at their staff? In the comparison doesn’t fit as pointed out by Zenetti. 

 

The fact people swear at football and even in society !!! Mary Whitehouse must surely  be spinning in her grave. The SFA should maybe consider moving matches to after 9pm so folk can drop the odd cuss without upsetting anyone. 

 

We should alternatively take lead from cousins across the pond and use some of these great chants instead; 

 

 

 

In all seriousness: 

 

The consensus is the McHugh was poor on Tuesday and that was before he sent the penalty over the bar to greet Jeff Bezzo in space . While it’s not my style, frustrations from the terraces can boil over . Next time he steps on the pitch wearing the hoops, I’m sure same fans that criticised him will be hoping he has a better game and will celebrate he scores . Football is fickle.

Edited by Young Turk
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My son, who was 4 at the time picked up the F word at a QP v Alloa game about 30 years ago. 

He learnt that Alloa were "fucking shite”

And that was 30 years before they appointed Barry Ferguson.

He now has a 1st class honours degree in English Literature (my son ... Not Barry)

I guess that exposure to bad language wasn't too big a problem.

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2 hours ago, Reclusespider said:

The problem is that football is still living in the past. The world is changing, people are demonstrating and marching for respect and yet football crowds think it's acceptable to be disrespectful because they've paid their money! It's not! If your employer, started screaming your rubbish and publicly calling for you to leave, you would be upset and I doubt it would make you work any better and you would be requesting your boss to be sacked. 

Why should we have to explain to kids to ignore to swearing as it's acceptable in a football ground but not acceptable nowhere else, especially not at school where monitors make sure these things no longer happen. Is that what we want, to be treated like children just because we can't act like decent adults. 

Atmosphere can be generated by supporting your team and cheering them on, not by slagging off our own players or the opposition and their supporters.

People who go to Last night at the Proms, can have a great night with a fab atmosphere, a great sing a long and a drink but don't go to football if you want this as it's not the done here, we wouldn't want that to happen.

You've actually compared protests highlighting and calling for an end to engrained racism in our society to football fans shouting swear words at a game. 

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42 minutes ago, Arachnophile said:

My son, who was 4 at the time picked up the F word at a QP v Alloa game about 30 years ago. 

He learnt that Alloa were "fucking shite”

And that was 30 years before they appointed Barry Ferguson.

He now has a 1st class honours degree in English Literature (my son ... Not Barry)

I guess that exposure to bad language wasn't too big a problem.

Not the point. Lots of football supporters are well educated and highly intellectual successful business people. It's about how some people conduct themselves at a football game. 

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1 hour ago, Young Turk said:

While my initial post was meant to be a flippant quip, but I respectfully disagree with all of this. 

 

Football is tied to the past - it’s nostalgia driven. That’s why at the 150 celebrations we talked about being the first club to do X,Y and Z. We had a throwback kit. Fans talk about promotion seasons of the past. Celtic fans go on about 67 and England trumpet 66 every time there is a major tournament etc, etc. 

 

The world is changing heaven knows it’s changed massively in the last 18 months, however, to compare the plight of minorities and their fight for parity to criticising a player is stretch and a half. Having a go at player isn’t a hate crime. An absurd dichotomy. As for employers shouting at their staff? In the comparison doesn’t fit as pointed out by Zenetti. 

 

The fact people swear at football and even in society !!! Mary Whitehouse must surely  be spinning in her grave. The SFA should maybe consider moving matches to after 9pm so folk can drop the odd cuss without upsetting anyone. 

 

We should alternatively take lead from cousins across the pond and use some of these great chants instead; 

 

 

 

In all seriousness: 

 

The consensus is the McHugh was poor on Tuesday and that was before he sent the penalty over the bar to greet Jeff Bezzo in space . While it’s not my style, frustrations from the terraces can boil over . Next time he steps on the pitch wearing the hoops, I’m sure same fans that criticised him will be hoping he has a better game and will celebrate he scores . Football is fickle.

In all seriousness.

I do hope for more from McHugh. It's just a shame the negative shouts are always louder than the positives. 

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10 minutes ago, Reclusespider said:

Not the point. Lots of football supporters are well educated and highly intellectual successful business people. It's about how some people conduct themselves at a football game. 

What's so hard about informing your kids that there is a time and a place to use certain language, and sometimes at the football when emotions are high people will shout things they may later regret, or normally wouldn't say. It's not a difficult concept. 

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16 hours ago, Dooflick said:

Absolute nonsense regarding Tony. When I was a Member, I always sat in the centre stand and never heard a bad word about the big man.

Reckon you must have needed your ears cleaned out because he was one of many that got it unfairly from some of our support, especially when he was played up front by Speirs. Thankfully He got less stick either side of that spell when he was a young midfielder and then virtually zero when Gus converted him to a central defender. Even the malcontents had to concede he was pretty majestic at the back

The general rule seemed to be they disliked the perceived big slow guys but loved the wee guys that ran about tirelessly. Ally Graham got it from them despite being a real asset to the team and being the one that created loads for Frankie Carroll ( wee guy, of course) Even the legend Ross Caven got it big style when he started out at centre forward, before stepping back to midfield, then central defence ( his best position for me) I remember a well-kent fan giving him absolute dog's abuse one day at full time going up the Hampden tunnel. Caven snapped after years of this and was up the social club 5 minutes later looking for a square go with him. The fan absolutely shat it. Different times but it was very amusing indeed  

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15 hours ago, spiders4ever said:

Clumsy and poorly constructed analogies aside, if the guy is on big money and not performing, then folk taking time off work for a midweek cup game are more than entitled to voice their opinions.   

So nothing to do with him being a professional?

Not necessarily. If we were still amateur and someone wasn’t pulling their weight, they’d get it as well. Players have taken pelters, mainly from the posh seats, for as long as I can remember. Luke Donnelly was another example. A guy with actual ability, but because he was tall and his game wasn’t physical, he took a lot of stick.

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4 hours ago, Reclusespider said:

If your employer, started screaming your rubbish and publicly calling for you to leave, you would be upset and I doubt it would make you work any better and you would be requesting your boss to be sacked. 

I don't shout abuse at our players during matches, never been my style,  but I totally get the frustration of others. Of course we all have bad days at work but if I had as many bad days at work as Bob then my manager would certainly be bringing it up at our monthly one to one meeting to get to the bottom of what the problem is ( is it my work or private life?) But if I continued to put in a bad performance over the rest of the year without good reason then it would be a significant part of my annual appraisal review and I would probably be encouraged to move to a new team or maybe even find a new job.    

Edited by Mick1867
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As for swearing, I'm with Billy Connolly

"It's not "bad language", it's ordinary language. I don't understand the snobbishness about swearing. I grew up swearing. Everybody around me swore. It's part of our culture. It can be poetic, it can be violent, and it can be very funny. It's the rhythm of how we speak, and the colour of how we communicate - at least when we're being honest and open and raw. So, if you're likely to be offended by the swearing, you may as well f**k off now" 

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34 minutes ago, Mick1867 said:

Reckon you must have needed your ears cleaned out because he was one of many that got it unfairly from some of our support, especially when he was played up front by Speirs. Thankfully He got less stick either side of that spell when he was a young midfielder and then virtually zero when Gus converted him to a central defender. Even the malcontents had to concede he was pretty majestic at the back

The general rule seemed to be they disliked the perceived big slow guys but loved the wee guys that ran about tirelessly. Ally Graham got it from them despite being a real asset to the team and being the one that created loads for Frankie Carroll ( wee guy, of course) Even the legend Ross Caven got it big style when he started out at centre forward, before stepping back to midfield, then central defence ( his best position for me) I remember a well-kent fan giving him absolute dog's abuse one day at full time going up the Hampden tunnel. Caven snapped after years of this and was up the social club 5 minutes later looking for a square go with him. The fan absolutely shat it. Different times but it was very amusing indeed  

Remember them giving Ross abuse but never Big Tony, I honestly never heard a bad word against him.

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17 hours ago, JT1867 said:

Well Tony Quinn heard the abuse, spoke to him a few times and he mentioned it more than once.

Caven got it tight from the centre stand before then.

I also remember Andy Millen getting dogs abuse from the centre stand when he signed, funnily enough that only lasted one game.

There is one guy, sat near the trophy presentation area, who used to rage at every miskick but he was fair and even in that everyone got it. One other nearer section P who I actually moved seat because of his rants. But then there was another in Section P, ex-player and centre-half who would whine at every wee error. Interesting the three you mentioned all played central defence. 

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There is no need to go out of your way to abuse your own player, even if they have played badly. The excuse of "I pay your wages" is never justifiable.

That said, I still believe that Bob will do well this season. His career stats are not too bad. 

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38 minutes ago, Mick1867 said:

I don't shout abuse at our players during matches, never been my style,  but I totally get the frustration of others. Of course we all have bad days at work but if I had as many bad days at work as Bob then my manager would certainly be bringing it up at our monthly one to one meeting to get to the bottom of what the problem is ( is it my work or private life?) But if I continued to put in a bad performance over the rest of the year without good reason then it would be a significant part of my annual appraisal review and I would probably be encouraged to move to a new team or maybe even find a new job.    

I agree.

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