The Conference X Files 2021-22

[Burnieman]

If someone wants to dig out the graphic/flow chart, it shows the First Division is 16 clubs next season and Second at 18, that hasn't changed as far as I'm aware (feel free to correct me if it has).

Therefore, in the scenario of a net gain of VoL from the LL (ie Tranent don't go up), then 5 are relegated from the Premier, meaning only 11 places available in the First Division, ie 2nd-6th plus best 7th placed.

That then means all remaining clubs go to the Second Division (17) meaning only the winners of Conference X are promoted to the Second. So the structure would be 16-16-18-10.

I'd then expect the Second to see 4 down next season to bring it in line at 16 and increase size of the Third.

[Sidney Lumet]

The graphic I had seen was this one and certainly suggests a 16 team First Division next season, which is a little contradictory to the statements quoted earlier that tend to suggest that with a net gain of one club there will be an 18 team First Division.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Sidney Lumet said:

The graphic I had seen was this one and certainly suggests a 16 team First Division next season, which is a little contradictory to the statements quoted earlier that tend to suggest that with a net gain of one club there will be an 18 team First Division.

It might say EoS First will be 16 teams, but for the 5 down from the EoS Premier it would suggest a 17 team First Division. 5+A2-A7+B2-B7 = 17. None of the 7th spots have a marking to suggest it could see them relegated.

 

 

 

[Sidney Lumet]

I think you can definitely read that graphic as a set-up next season of;

16 - Premier League
18 - First Division
18 - Second Division
8 - Third Division

…..with the third placed team in the current Conference X being promoted to achieve this should there be a net gain of one from the Lowland League.

An eight team Third Division will be pretty poor but I guess it continues to give the West Lothian teams what they had apparently hankered after before they were dragged kicking and screaming into the real world - a wee league of their own!

[FairWeatherFan]

4 minutes ago, Sidney Lumet said:

I think you can definitely read that graphic as a set-up next season of;

16 - Premier League
18 - First Division
18 - Second Division
8 - Third Division

…..with the third placed team in the current Conference X being promoted to achieve this should there be a net gain of one from the Lowland League.

An eight team Third Division will be pretty poor but I guess it gives the West Lothian teams what they had apparently hankered after before they were dragged kicking and screaming into the real world - a wee league of their own!

It was done in advance of the season so there would have been some possibility of the 3rd Division being expanded by new applicants. That hasn't turned out to be the case.

I'm sure if you said to 3/11 Conference X clubs they were getting promoted at the start of the season they would have been happy with that at least.

[Dev]

It's a shame that the EoS didn't welcome the season's newcomers differently and created an additional First Division Conference i.e. "C". This would have allowed the whole league to find its' natural balance sooner rather than later.

There's still time to try to improve the situation, to a degree, but the established clubs which are heading towards the new Division Two would have to show that they want to sort this out sooner rather than later at the next AGM.

Simply merge these clubs and the current Conference "X" into two Division Two Conferences using the ABBA system. The "promoted" clubs from the current Conference "X" would still be able to win promotion again next season up to Division One and they would still be playing against some new clubs.

Under the present proposals maybe 8 Conference "X" clubs (or is it 9?) are stuck in a bottom Division which won't be receiving any relegated clubs - How weird is that!

The idea that any new clubs from outside the Lothians might be attracted to join a new Division Three comprised entirely of Lothian clubs proved to be utter fantasy. Not exactly surprising to many followers, even on P&B.

It's time for the EoS clubs to get a grip with this issue which was of their own making. Time to put that old animosity away (against the last of the Juniors to come into the league). If anyone has any doubts about the comparative standards of the current Conference "X" clubs just cross reference to the meaningful Cup competitions played, and still being played, this season.

Let's put merit back at the top of the list eh? Complaining about lack of promotion opportunities to the LL but then blocking fairness and equality within the league. Time to put old "dislikes" in the bin and move forward a year sooner than currently planned. 

 

[John S]

The Conference X league table on the EoS site has a bold line under the top position only.

[shuggie123]

11 hours ago, Burnieman said:

Maybe you should ask your club rather than having a dig at the league.

Good input, thanks.

I have, and the club do not know.

[shuggie123]

14 hours ago, Ginaro said:

There has been a tweet in response to a question, though still not complete clarity. I suppose if the EOS want to avoid a 17 team first division if Darvel get promoted, then yes they'll need to promote 3rd place in Conference X. Though it then means a 8 team Third Division next season.

 

Well, that certainly cleared it up!

[Vollyman]

3 hours ago, Dev said:

It's a shame that the EoS didn't welcome the season's newcomers differently and created an additional First Division Conference i.e. "C". This would have allowed the whole league to find its' natural balance sooner rather than later.

There's still time to try to improve the situation, to a degree, but the established clubs which are heading towards the new Division Two would have to show that they want to sort this out sooner rather than later at the next AGM.

Simply merge these clubs and the current Conference "X" into two Division Two Conferences using the ABBA system. The "promoted" clubs from the current Conference "X" would still be able to win promotion again next season up to Division One and they would still be playing against some new clubs.

Under the present proposals maybe 8 Conference "X" clubs (or is it 9?) are stuck in a bottom Division which won't be receiving any relegated clubs - How weird is that!

The idea that any new clubs from outside the Lothians might be attracted to join a new Division Three comprised entirely of Lothian clubs proved to be utter fantasy. Not exactly surprising to many followers, even on P&B.

It's time for the EoS clubs to get a grip with this issue which was of their own making. Time to put that old animosity away (against the last of the Juniors to come into the league). If anyone has any doubts about the comparative standards of the current Conference "X" clubs just cross reference to the meaningful Cup competitions played, and still being played, this season.

Let's put merit back at the top of the list eh? Complaining about lack of promotion opportunities to the LL but then blocking fairness and equality within the league. Time to put old "dislikes" in the bin and move forward a year sooner than currently planned. 

 

Good post, if Tranent are not promoted then there would be 60 clubs in the EOS, based on conference positions at the end of this season and adopting the relegation and promotion criteria already agreed the the EOS should aim at three leagues of 16 and one league of 12

[FairWeatherFan]

12 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

Good post, if Tranent are not promoted then there would be 60 clubs in the EOS, based on conference positions at the end of this season and adopting the relegation and promotion criteria already agreed the the EOS should aim at three leagues of 16 and one league of 12

Why should clubs at this point in the season be told that they're getting relegated to the 2nd or 3rd Division?

[Kemlin Dan]

12 hours ago, Burnieman said:

If someone wants to dig out the graphic/flow chart, it shows the First Division is 16 clubs next season and Second at 18, that hasn't changed as far as I'm aware (feel free to correct me if it has).

Therefore, in the scenario of a net gain of VoL from the LL (ie Tranent don't go up), then 5 are relegated from the Premier, meaning only 11 places available in the First Division, ie 2nd-6th plus best 7th placed.

That then means all remaining clubs go to the Second Division (17) meaning only the winners of Conference X are promoted to the Second. So the structure would be 16-16-18-10.

I'd then expect the Second to see 4 down next season to bring it in line at 16 and increase size of the Third.

[Ginaro]

34 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

Good post, if Tranent are not promoted then there would be 60 clubs in the EOS, based on conference positions at the end of this season and adopting the relegation and promotion criteria already agreed the the EOS should aim at three leagues of 16 and one league of 12

You and Dev are about a year late with that thinking, as the EOS decided that existing clubs wouldn't be relegated to the bottom tier at the end of this season.

So, going by the above if Tranent win: 16-16-18-9 (59) whereas if Tranent lose: 16-18-18-8 (60). 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Ginaro

[Burnieman]

3 hours ago, shuggie123 said:

Good input, thanks.

I have, and the club do not know.

They should maybe ask.

[Burnieman]

8 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

It might say EoS First will be 16 teams, but for the 5 down from the EoS Premier it would suggest a 17 team First Division. 5+A2-A7+B2-B7 = 17. None of the 7th spots have a marking to suggest it could see them relegated.

 

 

 

I think its 5 down from Premier, 2nd to 6th (10) plus best 7th (1) which gives us 16 in the event of Tranent not going up.

I know the notes refers to 8th place, I think that could be a typo as it doesn't correlate with the graphic. Either the notes wrong or the graphic is wrong.

16-16-18 and then however many left in the Third has always been the intended structure for 22-23 as far as I'm aware. 18 in the First and a very small Third makes no sense and I've never heard anyone discuss the possibility of an 18 team First.

Maybe the league need to absolutely clarify this ASAP.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Burnieman

[Burnieman]

5 hours ago, Dev said:

It's a shame that the EoS didn't welcome the season's newcomers differently and created an additional First Division Conference i.e. "C". This would have allowed the whole league to find its' natural balance sooner rather than later.

There's still time to try to improve the situation, to a degree, but the established clubs which are heading towards the new Division Two would have to show that they want to sort this out sooner rather than later at the next AGM.

Simply merge these clubs and the current Conference "X" into two Division Two Conferences using the ABBA system. The "promoted" clubs from the current Conference "X" would still be able to win promotion again next season up to Division One and they would still be playing against some new clubs.

Under the present proposals maybe 8 Conference "X" clubs (or is it 9?) are stuck in a bottom Division which won't be receiving any relegated clubs - How weird is that!

The idea that any new clubs from outside the Lothians might be attracted to join a new Division Three comprised entirely of Lothian clubs proved to be utter fantasy. Not exactly surprising to many followers, even on P&B.

It's time for the EoS clubs to get a grip with this issue which was of their own making. Time to put that old animosity away (against the last of the Juniors to come into the league). If anyone has any doubts about the comparative standards of the current Conference "X" clubs just cross reference to the meaningful Cup competitions played, and still being played, this season.

Let's put merit back at the top of the list eh? Complaining about lack of promotion opportunities to the LL but then blocking fairness and equality within the league. Time to put old "dislikes" in the bin and move forward a year sooner than currently planned. 

 

Not this pish again. Clydebank aye

Edited May 17, 2022 by Burnieman

[FairWeatherFan]

27 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

I think its 5 down from Premier, 2nd to 6th (10) plus best 7th (1) which gives us 16 in the event of Tranent not going up.

I know the notes refers to 8th place, I think that could be a typo as it doesn't correlate with the graphic. Either the notes wrong or the graphic is wrong.

With the graphic and adjoining explainer that's recently popped up online 7th in the First Division Conferences is shown as safe.

Which matches up with the recent tweet response from the EoS twitter account.

And the regular table updates from @HibeeJibee

Kind of been staring everyone in the face the whole time and not been understood by those online without the explainer.

If there's any great animosity over the potential 16-18-18-8 scenario since i'm sure it could be changed.

[Burnieman]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

With the graphic and adjoining explainer that's recently popped up online 7th in the First Division Conferences is shown as safe.

Which matches up with the recent tweet response from the EoS twitter account.

And the regular table updates from @HibeeJibee

Kind of been staring everyone in the face the whole time and not been understood by those online without the explainer.

If there's any great animosity over the potential 16-18-18-8 scenario since i'm sure it could be changed.

 

I'm not sure it's clear either way. The colouring suggests to me that 7th is in the mix for the First, either both or one via a better record. 8th looks to me like it's Second regardless.

My thinking is why would the EoS want the First to increase to 18 clubs when in reality, there's no need?  Ultimately you want a set-up which is consistently 16 clubs throughout with a standard 3 up/down, and I thought that was the aim with 16-16-18 next season with then a process to reduce the Second to 16 the following season and bump up the Third to a better number and hopefully see a gradual increase towards 16 itself.

Trying to reduce the First and Second to 16 from 18 is a little more difficult and may take more than a season, and an 8 club Third is a bit ridiculous frankly. Will the First have 4 down next season if it goes to 18, which results in the Second relegating....a lot!?

 

 

[FairWeatherFan]

22 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

 

I'm not sure it's clear either way. The colouring suggests to me that 7th is in the mix for the First, either both or one via a better record. 8th looks to me like it's Second regardless.

 

None of the graphics have a # on them are by them for 7th placed. The text explainer and tweet is more explicit in stating Top 7 is safe in the different ways..

22 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

 

I'm not sure it's clear either way. The colouring suggests to me that 7th is in the mix for the First, either both or one via a better record. 8th looks to me like it's Second regardless.

My thinking is why would the EoS want the First to increase to 18 clubs when in reality, there's no need?  Ultimately you want a set-up which is consistently 16 clubs throughout with a standard 3 up/down, and I thought that was the aim with 16-16-18 next season

 

It would be 16-16-19-9 or 16-16-20-8. Conference X were guaranteed two promotion spots with no clubs relegated to the 3rd Division from the First Division Conferences.

Going with 16-18-18 seems to have been a way to avoid an idle team keep the fixtures down to 34 or under. I don't think many would have complained if it hadn't been for the lack of applicants this season.

[Ginaro]

7th has always been safe as far I'm concerned, there's not an asterisk or anything to indicate they would be in danger.

The question basically is whether the First runs with 17 or 18 clubs in the event Tranent lose. 

1 hour ago, Burnieman said:

16-16-18 and then however many left in the Third has always been the intended structure for 22-23 as far as I'm aware. 18 in the First and a very small Third makes no sense and I've never heard anyone discuss the possibility of an 18 team First.

Isn't the problem that if First was 16 then you would have a 19 Second as you couldn't relegate any more Conference A/B clubs?