Andy Roxburgh

[PauloPerth]

Great interview with him on radio Scotland today by Chic Young. Way ahead of his time in his approach to youth development and coaching. Led Scotland to success at a number of youth international tournaments, as well as qualifying the full team for euros and world cups when manager.  He was also involved in developing a lot of top international Scottish players in the late 1970's and early 80's.

Always remember after studying clubs all round Europe, and in particular the technical abilities of Dutch players from the Ajax academy and the growing appreciation for the Coerver method, he introduced small sided games; 7-a-side and fun fours to children under 12, and tried to bring in an emphasis on development rather than trophies.  Typically, it was met by a backlash, as volunteers who'd been involved in children's football fought for the right of their 5 year old team to play 11-a-side with full sized goals on full size pitches.  It would be 15-20 years before it really became the norm everywhere in the country.  You had players and journalists calling him no more than a schoolteacher, and players like Richard Gough jumping on that bandwagon as well.

He went onto be Technical Director of UEFA and worked with some of the top coaches in world football.

It does make you wonder if we'll always be followers in football. We're never going to lead the way in new innovative coaching or training methods  as our football community is so cynical about anything different.

[craigkillie]

Are the Performance Schools innovative? It's definitely not something I have heard of a lot of other countries doing - some of them have or had Centres of Excellence (Lilleshall, Clairefotaine), but they tended to be for older kids and were just a single centre rather than being embedded around the country.

[IggyStooge]

England have at least three sporting centres (one of which is in Wales) and they are all run by some repulsive company (contractors to the UK government departments of health, justice, transport, immigration and defence) who have been involved in the cover-up of sexual abuse of immigrants and the mislaying of radioactive waste as well as countless cases of fraud. Absolute scumbaggery.

[IggyStooge]

And, aye, I liked Andy Roxburgh. Mostly because we were qualifying for everything in sight.

More than a few people at primary school wore his exquisite trackie tap and bottoms as an unofficial uniform.

 

[IggyStooge]

1 hour ago, PauloPerth said:

You had players and journalists calling him no more than a schoolteacher, and players like Richard Gough jumping on that bandwagon as well.

Well, the players certianly sound like they were acting like big spoilt schoolweans.

As told by Smokin' Stevie Nicol:

 

'I’D never really noticed Andy Roxburgh before he replaced Alex Ferguson as Scotland boss in July 1986.

He’d been part of the backroom staff but was mainly involved, I think, with the youth teams. He certainly wasn’t a prominent figure.

After missing a large chunk of season 1986-87 due to injury it was a relief to be finally back in the squad, even if it was only for a friendly against Saudi Arabia away. Whose idea was that? It was a weird trip.

Roxburgh thought it would be a good idea to have a cards competition on the flight over which was fine but he made taking part mandatory for all players. Richard Gough point-blank refused but everyone else just went along with it to keep the peace.

A short time later I was having a smoke with Frank McAvennie in the flight attendants’ quarters. Frank was only on the flight because he had reluctantly agreed to join the squad.

It wasn’t a case of him not wanting to play for Scotland, Frank was simply annoyed at Andy phoning him up out of the blue after he had been overlooked for the original squad. He told me: “How did he find me? I just changed my number yet he still managed to get in touch.”'

 

Buncha arseholes.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by IggyStooge

[BFTD]

You read stuff like that and you wonder if there was ever a time when playing for the national team was considered a privilege and not an inconvenience.

[GordonS]

If everyone in Scottish football had bought into Roxburgh's blueprint - clubs, youth clubs, coaches, associations, schools - we'd have one of the top 10 national sides in Europe now. Our players would be in demand everywhere for the level of their technique. Our clubs would perform well in Europe using home-grown players, before selling one or two of the most valuable each summer.

But we'd rather see 13-year-old boys playing 60 games a season for their school and their club on full size pitches for as many medals and trophies as they can get.

[John Lambies Doos]

Great interview with him on radio Scotland today by Chic Young. Way ahead of his time in his approach to youth development and coaching. Led Scotland to success at a number of youth international tournaments, as well as qualifying the full team for euros and world cups when manager.  He was also involved in developing a lot of top international Scottish players in the late 1970's and early 80's.
Always remember after studying clubs all round Europe, and in particular the technical abilities of Dutch players from the Ajax academy and the growing appreciation for the Coerver method, he introduced small sided games; 7-a-side and fun fours to children under 12, and tried to bring in an emphasis on development rather than trophies.  Typically, it was met by a backlash, as volunteers who'd been involved in children's football fought for the right of their 5 year old team to play 11-a-side with full sized goals on full size pitches.  It would be 15-20 years before it really became the norm everywhere in the country.  You had players and journalists calling him no more than a schoolteacher, and players like Richard Gough jumping on that bandwagon as well.
He went onto be Technical Director of UEFA and worked with some of the top coaches in world football.
It does make you wonder if we'll always be followers in football. We're never going to lead the way in new innovative coaching or training methods  as our football community is so cynical about anything different.

Followers????..We invented the game ffs

[PauloPerth]

2 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

6 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

Great interview with him on radio Scotland today by Chic Young. Way ahead of his time in his approach to youth development and coaching. Led Scotland to success at a number of youth international tournaments, as well as qualifying the full team for euros and world cups when manager.  He was also involved in developing a lot of top international Scottish players in the late 1970's and early 80's.
Always remember after studying clubs all round Europe, and in particular the technical abilities of Dutch players from the Ajax academy and the growing appreciation for the Coerver method, he introduced small sided games; 7-a-side and fun fours to children under 12, and tried to bring in an emphasis on development rather than trophies.  Typically, it was met by a backlash, as volunteers who'd been involved in children's football fought for the right of their 5 year old team to play 11-a-side with full sized goals on full size pitches.  It would be 15-20 years before it really became the norm everywhere in the country.  You had players and journalists calling him no more than a schoolteacher, and players like Richard Gough jumping on that bandwagon as well.
He went onto be Technical Director of UEFA and worked with some of the top coaches in world football.
It does make you wonder if we'll always be followers in football. We're never going to lead the way in new innovative coaching or training methods  as our football community is so cynical about anything different.

Followers????..We invented the game ffs

Aye just the 150 years ago. 

[IggyStooge]

1 hour ago, PauloPerth said:

Aye just the 150 years ago. 

And still top of the pile...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unofficial_Football_World_Championships

[velo army]

7 hours ago, IggyStooge said:

And, aye, I liked Andy Roxburgh. Mostly because we were qualifying for everything in sight.

More than a few people at primary school wore his exquisite trackie tap and bottoms as an unofficial uniform.

 

I got this for my 8th birthday. Absolute cracker.

[PauloPerth]

7 hours ago, IggyStooge said:

And still top of the pile...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unofficial_Football_World_Championships

Never seen that before, cheers!

[Gordopolis]

Roxburgh was brilliant on that interview. I missed parts of it so will have to listen again.
The weird thing is that to me - as a wee boy at the time - there always seemed to be an eye-rolling attitude to him and, as someone else said, people back then were using the dismissive 'schoolteacher' patter when discussing him. I'm not even sure the term is an insult, to be fair - especially when compared against the modern managerial approach which is far less about shouting and bullying and more about method and mindset.
Anyway, it's good that we're getting a fairer and more positive perspective on him now.

[AyrExile]

16 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Are the Performance Schools innovative? It's definitely not something I have heard of a lot of other countries doing - some of them have or had Centres of Excellence (Lilleshall, Clairefotaine), but they tended to be for older kids and were just a single centre rather than being embedded around the country.

Wottes article today has a bit more info and it seems other countries run similar. Not sure it that involves sending kids to a regional centre or it happens more locally.  Whilst the number of hours practice is important I think the attitude and awareness piece is key in Scotland. Lots of very good players who would usually reach a certain age then fall away due to outside influences 

[Jacksgranda]

16 hours ago, IggyStooge said:

And, aye, I liked Andy Roxburgh. Mostly because we were qualifying for everything in sight.

More than a few people at primary school wore his exquisite trackie tap and bottoms as an unofficial uniform.

 

I feel really old...

[ewan14]

21 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

Great interview with him on radio Scotland today by Chic Young. Way ahead of his time in his approach to youth development and coaching. Led Scotland to success at a number of youth international tournaments, as well as qualifying the full team for euros and world cups when manager.  He was also involved in developing a lot of top international Scottish players in the late 1970's and early 80's.

Always remember after studying clubs all round Europe, and in particular the technical abilities of Dutch players from the Ajax academy and the growing appreciation for the Coerver method, he introduced small sided games; 7-a-side and fun fours to children under 12, and tried to bring in an emphasis on development rather than trophies.  Typically, it was met by a backlash, as volunteers who'd been involved in children's football fought for the right of their 5 year old team to play 11-a-side with full sized goals on full size pitches.  It would be 15-20 years before it really became the norm everywhere in the country.  You had players and journalists calling him no more than a schoolteacher, and players like Richard Gough jumping on that bandwagon as well.

He went onto be Technical Director of UEFA and worked with some of the top coaches in world football.

It does make you wonder if we'll always be followers in football. We're never going to lead the way in new innovative coaching or training methods  as our football community is so cynical about anything different.

S##n#ss , never mind Gough

[ewan14]

19 hours ago, IggyStooge said:

Well, the players certianly sound like they were acting like big spoilt schoolweans.

As told by Smokin' Stevie Nicol:

 

'I’D never really noticed Andy Roxburgh before he replaced Alex Ferguson as Scotland boss in July 1986.

He’d been part of the backroom staff but was mainly involved, I think, with the youth teams. He certainly wasn’t a prominent figure.

After missing a large chunk of season 1986-87 due to injury it was a relief to be finally back in the squad, even if it was only for a friendly against Saudi Arabia away. Whose idea was that? It was a weird trip.

Roxburgh thought it would be a good idea to have a cards competition on the flight over which was fine but he made taking part mandatory for all players. Richard Gough point-blank refused but everyone else just went along with it to keep the peace.

A short time later I was having a smoke with Frank McAvennie in the flight attendants’ quarters. Frank was only on the flight because he had reluctantly agreed to join the squad.

It wasn’t a case of him not wanting to play for Scotland, Frank was simply annoyed at Andy phoning him up out of the blue after he had been overlooked for the original squad. He told me: “How did he find me? I just changed my number yet he still managed to get in touch.”'

 

Buncha arseholes.

 

 

McAvennie , a waste of talent !

Why did Gough refuse point blank ?

Could he not have made the effort ?

Edited May 30, 2021 by ewan14

[RobbieD]

He didn't play Ally McCoist against Costa Rica so he can talk all he wants about the other stuff to make himself look good.  I'll never forget that.

[ewan14]

1 hour ago, RobbieD said:

He didn't play Ally McCoist against Costa Rica so he can talk all he wants about the other stuff to make himself look good.  I'll never forget that.

Harsh , but understandable

Actually just checked the team for that game and ....

was shocked !!!

Not Andy's finest hour , along with playing McClair on the left wing

( Alan McInally seemed to be " playing " up front with McCoist ( who came on as a sub. )

Edited May 30, 2021 by ewan14

[GordonS]

13 hours ago, Gordopolis said:

Roxburgh was brilliant on that interview. I missed parts of it so will have to listen again.
The weird thing is that to me - as a wee boy at the time - there always seemed to be an eye-rolling attitude to him and, as someone else said, people back then were using the dismissive 'schoolteacher' patter when discussing him. I'm not even sure the term is an insult, to be fair - especially when compared against the modern managerial approach which is far less about shouting and bullying and more about method and mindset.
Anyway, it's good that we're getting a fairer and more positive perspective on him now.

I think there's a lot less support for Roxburgh's approach inside the game in Scotland than outside. There was, and still is to a lesser extent, a macho culture that says you need to be a big man, a strong man, a Jock Stein or an Alex Ferguson, and not a mild-mannered, educated softie. If you've ever watched Stephen Craigen "coach" Motherwell under 20s through a game you'll know what I mean. Any time anyone suggests kids playing non-competitive football folk lose their minds.

You see the same today with Gregor Townsend and the rugby team, he comes across as the accountant that he is and he's always had abuse from the "bring back Big Vern" brigade, despite the results.

2 hours ago, RobbieD said:

He didn't play Ally McCoist against Costa Rica so he can talk all he wants about the other stuff to make himself look good.  I'll never forget that.

In fairness, the guy he was dropped for had just scored 10 goals in 31 appearances for Bayern Munich, on their way to winning the Bundesliga. There was a school of thought at the time that Mo Johnstone and Ally McCoist were too similar. I think it was wrong, Johnstone had enough footballing intelligence (no other type, obviously) to drop into a second striker role, but Scotland had options.