Next to go?

[CityDave94]

Just now, Marten said:

In fairness, East Kilbride is the biggest town in Scotland never to have had a team in the top flight. There is definitely potential, although the question is if they are able to realise that potential.

It takes time, years to build a fan base from scratch especially now with the more media accessible established competition, Celtic, Rangers and English clubs.

 

[tamthebam]

I'll bet in 1967 there were those who said "What a diddy team have replaced Thirds. Nae fans and crap support"

Within a decade Clydebank were in the top flight and were a respected club until they got f*cked over. 

Bonnyrigg: lots of fans but people moan about the ground

Spartans: A ground comparable with Galabank but people say no fans

Haters gonna hate.

[Gordon EF]

43 minutes ago, Marten said:

In fairness, East Kilbride is the biggest town in Scotland never to have had a team in the top flight. There is definitely potential, although the question is if they are able to realise that potential.

True. And Coatbridge is bigger than Motherwell but they've now lost their 'status' as a town with an SPFL club because hardly anyone there gives a shit about Albion Rovers. When EK can sustain themselves without the outside money, we can revist the question.

[RateofKnots]

20 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

I'll bet in 1967 there were those who said "What a diddy team have replaced Thirds. Nae fans and crap support"

Within a decade Clydebank were in the top flight and were a respected club until they got f*cked over. 

Bonnyrigg: lots of fans but people moan about the ground

Spartans: A ground comparable with Galabank but people say no fans

Haters gonna hate.

Better to be talked about than never mentioned.

[Dev]

Clubs move up and down the SPFL and everyone accepts that. Clubs have now left the SPFL and, so far, have not managed to return. That's even without the cream of the West of Scotland League's clubs being in the Lowland League.

It won't be too long before more strong clubs move up into the Lowland League and from there they will move up again into the SPFL2.

When a SPFL club gets relegated out of the League it is not getting back up straight away and that's because the Highland and Lowland Leagues have enough good clubs to prevent that from happening.  These leagues are getting stronger too.

If existing SPFL clubs are not absolutely confident that they can avoid relegation from the League then the time has come to open up the relegation trap door so that it would be easier to return if the worst comes to the worst in future. Failure to deal with this means an almost certain "No Return" Ticket to the Highland/Lowland Leagues upon relegation.

It's a shame that the SPFL clubs still "don't smell the coffee". Existing clubs which are relegated out of the league are going to find it tough to return any time soon.

[GallowayBlue]

5 minutes ago, Dev said:

Clubs move up and down the SPFL and everyone accepts that. Clubs have now left the SPFL and, so far, have not managed to return. That's even without the cream of the West of Scotland League's clubs being in the Lowland League.

It won't be too long before more strong clubs move up into the Lowland League and from there they will move up again into the SPFL2.

When a SPFL club gets relegated out of the League it is not getting back up straight away and that's because the Highland and Lowland Leagues have enough good clubs to prevent that from happening.  These leagues are getting stronger too.

If existing SPFL clubs are not absolutely confident that they can avoid relegation from the League then the time has come to open up the relegation trap door so that it would be easier to return if the worst comes to the worst in future. Failure to deal with this means an almost certain "No Return" Ticket to the Highland/Lowland Leagues upon relegation.

It's a shame that the SPFL clubs still "don't smell the coffee". Existing clubs which are relegated out of the league are going to find it tough to return any time soon.

I agree with this, however let's say that League Two had eighteen teams, with two automatic relegation spots and one playoff spot (which would be quite generous).

Albion Rovers, Cowdenbeath etc would still need to finish first to guarantee promotion or at the very least second for a spot in a promotion playoff.

If there's "no chance of them coming back" at the moment, presumably that means they're not going to be close to winning the league, so not sure how that helps? 

If I was a League Two Chairman I would be looking at ways to close the pyramid.

[PELE]

4 hours ago, drs said:

Amount of times each club relegated out of the SPFL finished bottom of the entire Scottish League structure -

Berwick - 3

Cowdenbeath - 7

Albion Rovers - 10

The Shire - 12

Brechin - 14

The last four funnily enough are the most amount of times clubs have finished bottom of the league so at the moment we're seeing a natural flushing of the long standing jobbies of the Scottish League (Montrose tie at 7), Berwick may feel hard done by but they appointed Harvey so got what they deserved.

We've essentially only got Stenhousemuir and Elgin left of the perennial bottom league dross* and it won't be a shock if they and Clyde are the next 3 out the door. The times they are a changing and its great for the game.

 

edit - * who are in the bottom league at the moment, I expect Montrose to drop like a stone once Petrie leaves and they'll also be out of the league in the next decade.

Before the play-offs were introduced, Cowden had finished bottom of the pile on just 4 occasions since entering the leagues in 1905 and one of those was on goal difference. I don't think that is too bad.

Unfortunately, as soon as the play-offs appeared, at risk teams started increasing their spending and we couldn't match that. Hence, we then finished bottom in 3 out of the 6 seasons we spent in League 2.

Not picking on others, but Berwick Rangers only joined the old Division 2 in 1955. We were in the league set-up roughly as long as East Stirlingshire and Albion Rovers.

[PossilYM]

6 minutes ago, PELE said:

Before the play-offs were introduced, Cowden had finished bottom of the pile on just 4 occasions since entering the leagues in 1905 and one of those was on goal difference. I don't think that is too bad.

Unfortunately, as soon as the play-offs appeared, at risk teams started increasing their spending and we couldn't match that. Hence, we then finished bottom in 3 out of the 6 seasons we spent in League 2.

Not picking on others, but Berwick Rangers only joined the old Division 2 in 1955. We were in the league set-up roughly as long as East Stirlingshire and Albion Rovers.

Once you have an organized pyramid eventually those from above will come down.

Yet to be convinced by some of those going up are much better, just a different name, some of whom are backed by outside money.

Cove and Kelty as an example.

Even the big guns from Ayrshire are in most cases from ex mining villages.

Yeh they'll get a crowd at a cup tie or a play off but doubtful any of them could get say an average of a 1000 paying punters for a league game.

It would be a bad day for the likes of Cowdenbeath if they were to drop any further.

More likely teams like Cumbernauld Colts will drop further when the mining villages get serious.

And there's always Clydebank and Pollok.

[PossilYM]

1 hour ago, GallowayBlue said:

I agree with this, however let's say that League Two had eighteen teams, with two automatic relegation spots and one playoff spot (which would be quite generous).

Albion Rovers, Cowdenbeath etc would still need to finish first to guarantee promotion or at the very least second for a spot in a promotion playoff.

If there's "no chance of them coming back" at the moment, presumably that means they're not going to be close to winning the league, so not sure how that helps? 

If I was a League Two Chairman I would be looking at ways to close the pyramid.

Closing the pyramid now is a non starter.

The pyramid idea goes back to at least 2002.

That's when East and West Juniors started the Super Leagues in preparation.

Luckily for the bottom Senior clubs at the time, the SJFA top man put a spanner in the works.

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by PossilYM

[Dev]

5 minutes ago, PossilYM said:

Once you have an organized pyramid eventually those from above will come down.

Yet to be convinced by some of those going up are much better, just a different name, some of whom are backed by outside money.

Cove and Kelty as an example.

Even the big guns from Ayrshire are in most cases from ex mining villages.

Yeh they'll get a crowd at a cup tie or a play off but doubtful any of them could get say an average of a 1000 paying punters for a league game.

It would be a bad day for the likes of Cowdenbeath if they were to drop any further.

More likely teams like Cumbernauld Colts will drop further when the mining villages get serious.

And there's always Clydebank and Pollok.

Some clubs will come up due to better financial backing but that's always been the case in the history of leagues of any sport. Others will move up because of better organisation, management, etc. It's always been like that within the League.

It's just that, in effect, the League's structure has been hugely expanded to include hundreds of clubs which wouldn't even dream of reaching the SPFL and are no threat whatever to current SPFL clubs. However, there are some clubs which see the SPFL as an achievable peak of their ambitions, someday, and some of them will, over time, make it. 

[RateofKnots]

10 minutes ago, PossilYM said:

Closing the pyramid now is a non starter.

The pyramid idea goes back to at least 2002.

That's when East and West Juniors started the Super Leagues in preparation.

Luckily for the bottom Senior clubs at the time, the SJFA top man put a spanner in the works.

 

You say that, but I reckon if the ones pushing the B teams said to the spfl2 teams that if they admitted the colts they'd close the Pyramid, they'd find a way to it through.

Not that I think that scenario would happen. 

[PELE]

15 minutes ago, PossilYM said:

Once you have an organized pyramid eventually those from above will come down.

Yet to be convinced by some of those going up are much better, just a different name, some of whom are backed by outside money.

Cove and Kelty as an example.

Even the big guns from Ayrshire are in most cases from ex mining villages.

Yeh they'll get a crowd at a cup tie or a play off but doubtful any of them could get say an average of a 1000 paying punters for a league game.

It would be a bad day for the likes of Cowdenbeath if they were to drop any further.

More likely teams like Cumbernauld Colts will drop further when the mining villages get serious.

And there's always Clydebank and Pollok.

I think we will soon see some of the promoted teams heading back down. Kelty will surely struggle now the money man has left and I can't really see Spartans doing anything. I make them favourites to finish bottom of League 2 next season.

[WC Boggs]

5 hours ago, PossilYM said:

No word yet on Crownpoint?

No idea mate.

[PossilYM]

2 hours ago, tamthebam said:

I'll bet in 1967 there were those who said "What a diddy team have replaced Thirds. Nae fans and crap support"

Within a decade Clydebank were in the top flight and were a respected club until they got f*cked over. 

Bonnyrigg: lots of fans but people moan about the ground

Spartans: A ground comparable with Galabank but people say no fans

Haters gonna hate.

Were you meaning Meadowbank there?

[Nowhereman]

21 minutes ago, PossilYM said:

Were you meaning Meadowbank there?

I doubt he was given that Meadowbank didn’t come in to the sfl until 1974

[The Moonster]

3 hours ago, tamthebam said:

I'll bet in 1967 there were those who said "What a diddy team have replaced Thirds. Nae fans and crap support"

Within a decade Clydebank were in the top flight and were a respected club until they got f*cked over. 

Bonnyrigg: lots of fans but people moan about the ground

Spartans: A ground comparable with Galabank but people say no fans

Haters gonna hate.

Amazed to find people ripping the pish out of anything they can find on other teams on a football forum. 

[Jacksgranda]

2 hours ago, Dev said:

Clubs move up and down the SPFL and everyone accepts that. Clubs have now left the SPFL and, so far, have not managed to return. That's even without the cream of the West of Scotland League's clubs being in the Lowland League.

It won't be too long before more strong clubs move up into the Lowland League and from there they will move up again into the SPFL2.

When a SPFL club gets relegated out of the League it is not getting back up straight away and that's because the Highland and Lowland Leagues have enough good clubs to prevent that from happening.  These leagues are getting stronger too.

If existing SPFL clubs are not absolutely confident that they can avoid relegation from the League then the time has come to open up the relegation trap door so that it would be easier to return if the worst comes to the worst in future. Failure to deal with this means an almost certain "No Return" Ticket to the Highland/Lowland Leagues upon relegation.

It's a shame that the SPFL clubs still "don't smell the coffee". Existing clubs which are relegated out of the league are going to find it tough to return any time soon.

! agree, I don't think any of them will get back - I've said that from the start -  at least Brechin are knocking at the door.

Albion Rovers may surprise me, but I think they'll join East Stirlingshire, Berwick Rangers and Cowdenbeath as LL stalwarts.

 

[Sparticus]

Soon as the pyramid opened up the Lowland league was the new bottom division.It's destined to be a really good league from now on with all the old established clubs and the best of the old Seniors and Juniors finding that that is their level.

It's the lowland league clubs dont want relegated from now.

I hope the good people of Albion Rovers arent too dejected today.

Perhaps the people of Coatbridge might rally round and support their local club in better numbers from now.

Rovers are at least sitting on a far bigger potential than alot of clubs.

 

 

[cowdenbeath]

2 hours ago, PELE said:

I think we will soon see some of the promoted teams heading back down. Kelty will surely struggle now the money man has left and I can't really see Spartans doing anything. I make them favourites to finish bottom of League 2 next season.

FC Edinburgh will go downwards as well with their moneyman selling up. No sure on Spartans finishing bottom same was said of Bonnyrigg, think it could be Elgin's turn.

[theoriginalhedge]

3 hours ago, GallowayBlue said:

I agree with this, however let's say that League Two had eighteen teams, with two automatic relegation spots and one playoff spot (which would be quite generous).

Albion Rovers, Cowdenbeath etc would still need to finish first to guarantee promotion or at the very least second for a spot in a promotion playoff.

If there's "no chance of them coming back" at the moment, presumably that means they're not going to be close to winning the league, so not sure how that helps? 

If I was a League Two Chairman I would be looking at ways to close the pyramid.

That last sentence sums up Scottish football  and why the first sentence will never see the light of day.