strichener Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Baxter Parp said: Emojis are no substitute for facts. Montenegro's national debt is in Euros. It borrows in Euros. It receives grants from the EU in Euros. Its currency is the Euro. "EU says it can't help Montenegro on China loan but can on financing | Article [AMP] | Reuters" https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2BZ22Q I don't know why I bother trying to arguing with you, I might as well try to discuss supply side economics with my cat, Monty. Stick to speaking with the cat. You are clearly incapable of reading the articles that you link to. Just because the headline says "financing" you have posted it and made a fool of yourself again. The article incorrectly states that Montenegro have a 1bln Euro loan when in actual fact the took a loan in 2014 for $944mln at 2% interest (Source FT.com or SeeNews). Meanwhile the article that you blindly linked to also includes the following Quote Asked about the call for help, a Commission spokeswoman said that every country was free to make its own investment decisions but that the "EU did not repay loans from third parties." And Quote Montenegro will have to find its own way to handle the Chinese loan, spent on a 44 km stretch of the 165 km motorway, the spokeswoman said, but the EU was willing to help with money for the rest of the road through its 9 billion euro Economic and Investment Plan for the Western Balkans. "We are providing a mix of grants, guarantees and preferential loans from international financing institutions such as European Investment Bank and the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development," she said, noting the financing was at "very favourable conditions". So no help with the existing debt but happy to let the country get into further debt. I would like you to show which part of this (now) $1bln debt is now in Euros, being converted to Euros or in any way got anything to do with Euros? Probably best to let the cat answer. Edited June 4, 2021 by strichener 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 11 minutes ago, strichener said: Stick to speaking with the cat. You are clearly incapable of reading the articles that you link to. Just because the headline says "financing" you have posted it and made a fool of yourself again. The article incorrectly states that Montenegro have a 1bln Euro loan when in actual fact the took a loan in 2014 for $944mln at 2% interest (Source FT.com or SeeNews). From your own link: EU to help the Adriatic country repay a 1 billion euro ($1.19 billion) loan to the Export-Import Bank of China (Exim Bank) in a step that would curb Chinese influence. https://seenews.com/news/montenegro-deputy-pm-asks-eu-to-help-podgorica-repay-chinese-loan-734959 Why is it even relevant? It's an independent nation that can do what it wants. That's the point. It can even borrow money that it can't really afford to pay back. It can do that because it has a currency and therefore has a mechanism to borrow and to pay back. Like the EU pointed out in your post they make their own investment decisions. You're talking shite and grasping at irrelevant straws, old son. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DublinMagyar Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 I think we need a Strichener vs Baxter subforum.Best........thread..........ever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Baxter Parp said: From your own link: EU to help the Adriatic country repay a 1 billion euro ($1.19 billion) loan to the Export-Import Bank of China (Exim Bank) in a step that would curb Chinese influence. https://seenews.com/news/montenegro-deputy-pm-asks-eu-to-help-podgorica-repay-chinese-loan-734959 Why is it even relevant? It's an independent nation that can do what it wants. That's the point. It can even borrow money that it can't really afford to pay back. It can do that because it has a currency and therefore has a mechanism to borrow and to pay back. Like the EU pointed out in your post they make their own investment decisions. You're talking shite and grasping at irrelevant straws, old son. From my own link? Quote In 2014, Montenegro signed an agreement to receive a $944 million loan from Exim Bank with an annual interest rate of 2% and a six-year grace period for the construction of a motorway linking the port of Bar to the Serbian border. What any of the rest of your drivel has to do with the topic being discussed is anyone guess. The topic was the lunacy of borrowing in one currency that you don't control while using another currency that you don't control? You decided to use Montenegro as your backstop on how a country could run without their own currency little realising that it actually showed the stupidity of doing so when you borrow in a different currency. Being in control of your investment decisions is absolutely nothing to do with the issue of currencies. But nice try in trying to obfuscate. Just as an added point on where this can lead, the domestic debt that Montenegro incurred in $s has increased by nearly 10% because of currency fluctuations that the Sovereign nation can do nothing about as it neither controls monetary policy or money supply. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, strichener said: What any of the rest of your drivel has to do with the topic being discussed is anyone guess. The topic was the lunacy of borrowing in one currency that you don't control while using another currency that you don't control? Quote You can only convert your debt if you have a mechanism for settling the original debt or someone willing to fx your debt. Montenegro has all that and you're trying to win an argument by changing the subject. Typical right-wing pish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 17 hours ago, Baxter Parp said: Montenegro has all that and you're trying to win an argument by changing the subject. Typical right-wing pish. So we are at least in agreement that Montenegro's debt is not in Euros. That's a start. Give the cat your credentials now so that I can have a second attempt at introducing fiscal reality into your household as you are woeful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 So we are at least in agreement that Montenegro's debt is not in Euros.It's very much fucking is in Euros since that's their official currency. It stands at €4.8bn at the moment. You really are an ignorant little f**k. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 4 hours ago, Baxter Parp said: It's very much fucking is in Euros since that's their official currency. It stands at €4.8bn at the moment. You really are an ignorant little f**k. Please get the cat. It surely knows the difference between reporting currency and transaction currency. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Mahelp Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 I haven't read this whole thread...God no.....but is it fair to sum it up by saying that we're too wee,too poor, too stupid ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, strichener said: Please get the cat. It surely knows the difference between reporting currency and transaction currency. Monty says you haven't got a fucking clue. Montenegro is an independent nation that has the Euro as their official currency. Full stop. Edited June 5, 2021 by Baxter Parp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted June 6, 2021 Share Posted June 6, 2021 8 hours ago, Baxter Parp said: Monty says you haven't got a fucking clue. Montenegro is an independent nation that has the Euro as their official currency. Full stop. Have you got an amoeba in your household. Might as well go straight to the organ grinder. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted June 6, 2021 Share Posted June 6, 2021 I haven't read this whole thread...God no.....but is it fair to sum it up by saying that we're too wee,too poor, too stupid ? Pretty much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted June 6, 2021 Share Posted June 6, 2021 https://www.holyrood.com/comment/view,show-me-the-money Show me the money Jim Walker, chief economist at Alethia Capital in Hong Kong, looks at the currency question for an independent Scotland Enlightenment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 The striking thing about the Montenegro story is that they thought they could build 100 miles of motorway through mountainous terrain for just a billion dollars. The M74 Extension cost about a billion dollars in 2011 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBear Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Indy might be half credible if we were not intent in joining the EU. Setting up a hard border as a consequence with your nearest and biggest trading partner is simply economic suicide. The sentiment of "freedom" doesn't put bread on the table, nor does it equal prosperity. As we stand, Scotland runs at a net loss and that economic chasm would get wider on an Indy as the country takes full responsibility for its fiscal undertakings. Currently an indy would equal an increase in taxation, shrinking of state benefits and Public services and infrastructure to get anywhere near balancing the books. If there is a bigger picture in an economic case I'd love to hear it, as the strength and value of currency is related to a nations wealth, productivity, stability and potential, so we're fucked with the first two and yet to hear a coherent plan on how to achieve the last. I get the impression that the natz are not big in economic modelling, far less any other. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Indy might be half credible if we were not intent in joining the EU. Setting up a hard border as a consequence with your nearest and biggest trading partner is simply economic suicide. The sentiment of "freedom" doesn't put bread on the table, nor does it equal prosperity. As we stand, Scotland runs at a net loss and that economic chasm would get wider on an Indy as the country takes full responsibility for its fiscal undertakings. Currently an indy would equal an increase in taxation, shrinking of state benefits and Public services and infrastructure to get anywhere near balancing the books. If there is a bigger picture in an economic case I'd love to hear it, as the strength and value of currency is related to a nations wealth, productivity, stability and potential, so we're fucked with the first two and yet to hear a coherent plan on how to achieve the last. I get the impression that the natz are not big in economic modelling, far less any other. Ah a bit like brexit then? We didn't vote for that either but hey we are getting it anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 There won’t be a hard border. We’ll use David Davis’s technological solution to any trade border issues and retain a common travel area. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 21 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said: There won’t be a hard border. We’ll use David Davis’s technological solution to any trade border issues and retain a common travel area. If you’re in the EU, you’ll need to comply with their regulations. Not up to you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Whoosh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBear Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 29 minutes ago, sergie's no1 fan said: Ah a bit like brexit then? We didn't vote for that either but hey we are getting it anyway. It WAS a UK vote, unless you don't believe in democracy. Result not suiting and all that. The UK divested itself from the rules of the unelected and regained full sovereignty. The largest part of UK's trade is with the rest of the world not the EU AND LET'S NOT FORGET THE DEFICIT WITH THE EU. It would be rather moronic to free one's self from one set of draconian rules, only to go eyes wide open to have another set imposed by the far smaller trading partner, but you can't tell a yesser much. There are saner people in Dykebar. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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