Organised crime thread

[ICTChris]

Sean Orman has been found guilty of the murder of Bradley Welsh following a two week trial at the High Court in Edinburgh.  Orman, who has a number of convictions for armed robbery and other offences, shot Welsh dead outside his house in Edinburgh's New Town on April 17th 2019.  Orman was also found guilty of attempted murder in relation to an assault on David McMillan, a close friend of Welsh, who was attacked in his home by several men with machetes a few weeks before Welsh was killed.  During the trial McMillan said that Orman hadn't been one of the men who attacked him but the jury convicted Orman anyway.  The tiral heard evidence that Orman had been paid £10,000 by organised crime figure George 'Dode' Baigrie to murder Welsh.

The Record have a long summary of the case here - https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/bradley-welsh-murder-gangland-hitman-24061326

It's not been stated formally but it seems that this murder falls into the ongoing, 20 year gangland feud between rival drug dealers in Glasgow, the Lyons family and the Daniels family.  The Daniels have been a long established group dealing heroin in Glasgow whereas the Lyons were seen as much lower level.  Around the year 2000 the theft of a batch of cocaine from a Daniels linked drug dealer caused an outbreak of violence that continues to this day.  The trial heard evidence that David McMillan had returned from visiting Mark RIchardson in prison, a notorious Edinburgh drug dealer currently serving a sentence for possession of a handgun, the night he was attacked.  Richardson has been linked to the Daniels family in the past.  Baigrie, who was named several times at the trial but doesn't appear to have been charged with anything in relation to this, has been called the Lyons family man in the East in the past.

It's worth saying that Bradley Welsh, whatever his past was and whatever he may or may not have been involved in, did do a lot for needy people through his boxing gym and other organisations.  The organisation he was involved with has since closed but did lots of excellent work with kids in the poorest areas of Edinburgh, arranging former Hibs and Hearts player to come and run completely free training sessions, as well as running food banks and programms to get kids bikes who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford them.  This was all done with no state funding whatsoever.  In fact, the organisation was on several occasions refused permission to use public parks for their coaching sessions by Edinburgh Council.  You can find their website here - https://solidaritynotcharity.com/

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by ICTChris

[supermik]

As long as they are bumping each other off and not causing any impact on me then no fucks given from me.

[ICTChris]

Here is the background to the case that saw Mark Richardson imprisoned - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-42635866.  A gang with numerous military grade guns, explosives, access to South American drug cartels and who were on the radar of the DEA and FBI.  

A few years prior to this a number of Lyons family associates were imprisoned for attempted murder following a string of attacks on Daniels family members, in a plot that saw tracking devices fitted to cars and the victims stalked and then assaulted with machetes and hatchets - https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17635964.six-members-lyons-crime-gang-sentenced-attempted-murder-gangland-rivals/ All the convicted men are appealing the verdicts in this case.

 

 

 

[ICTChris]

17 minutes ago, supermik said:

As long as they are bumping each other off and not causing any impact on me then no fucks given from me.

I think that's a little naive.  Having armed men shooting each other in the streets isn't compatible with living in a civilised society.  It's not even clear how involved, if at all, Welsh was in crime now and even if he was he was shot dead in cold blood in front of his house with his family inside, sheer brutality.   The violence associated with this has also seen people shot outside primary schools while dropping their children off.

There's also a political angle to the feud.  For many years the Lyons family operated a youth club / leisure facility in Milton in Glasgow, funded with grants from the local council.  Numerous complaints were made to the council about people involved in crime being allowed to run the centre but nothing was done until the mid 2000s when a violent attack on several members of the Lyons family in a garage they owned saw one dead and the attackers sentenced to the longest tarrif ever given by a Scottish court.  The council officer who resisted kicking out the Lyons was Bridget McConnell, wife of then First Minister Jack.  Eddie Lyons Sr was even asked by his local MSP to nominate someone from his local area to attend the 2003 opening of Parliament at Holyrood.  There was even an attempted murder charge following a brutal assault on a local man who had gone to teh centre to complain about some of its members assaulting his son but no action was taken.  By the time they were removed over £1m in council grants had been paid in relation to the centre.  Some have said that the Lyons family built its base from young people they were introduced to through the club.  

Edited May 7, 2021 by ICTChris

[anotherchance]

Shame, thought he was decent on The Chase.

[ICTChris]

Forgot to ask in my original post - Are any P&Bers involved in organised crime?

[Honest_Man#1]

Stuff like this shows why a life in this sort of crime isn’t worth it. Old grudge from years ago can get you shot in the face on your front doorstep. Even once you’re (supposedly at least) out of it for a long time, you’re constantly looking over your shoulder.

[supermik]

Pretty sure Richardson cleaned out most of Jane Parks lottery money when they went into business together so he’s not all bad.

[Ron Aldo]

Forgot to ask in my original post - Are any P&Bers involved in organised crime?

I watch Line of Duty. Does that count?

[ICTChris]

Sean Orman has been sentenced to life, with a minimum term of 28 years in prison for murder.  That seems lenient to me.  Murdering someone for money with a firearm in a public place in such a calculated way is an unspeakably serious crime.  

Orman had a long criminal record - he served five years in prison for armed robberies of bookmakers around the West of Edinburgh and was also caught during an armed robbery of a jewlery shop, although I don't think he was convicted there.  He was also sentenced to five years in prison for stabbing someone in a gang fight at the age of 17.

[strichener]

1 minute ago, ICTChris said:

Sean Orman has been sentenced to life, with a minimum term of 28 years in prison for murder.  That seems lenient to me.  Murdering someone for money with a firearm in a public place in such a calculated way is an unspeakably serious crime.  

Orman had a long criminal record - he served five years in prison for armed robberies of bookmakers around the West of Edinburgh and was also caught during an armed robbery of a jewlery shop, although I don't think he was convicted there.  He was also sentenced to five years in prison for stabbing someone in a gang fight at the age of 17.

£357.14 per year.  Hitmen are substantially cheaper than I thought, I hope my wife doesn't read P & B.

[Derry Alli]

18 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

 (supposedly at least) .

I think that is the pertinent point here. People like him never leave that life. 

[ICTChris]

 Here are the full sentencing remarks from Lord Beckett

Quote

 

You have been found guilty of murdering Bradley Welsh. For murder, the punishment is fixed by law. You will be sentenced to life imprisonment.

I must fix the punishment part, which is the period of time you will serve in prison before being considered for parole. In doing so, I must reflect the need to punish you for the crime of murder and to deter you and others from committing murder. The law requires me to ignore any risk that you may pose to the public in the future. This does not mean that you will serve just this period. It will be for the Parole Board to determine when it is safe for you to be released from prison. The question of parole cannot arise before the punishment part has passed.

I must also take account of the seriousness of the crime of murder of which you have been convicted, combined with the other offence on the indictment and your record of previous convictions. That other crime is the very serious crime of attempted murder in which you and others, masked and armed burst into a family home and set about the householder causing severe injury, heedless of the risk to life involved in striking someone on the head with a machete. It appears that you did this in return for a substantial sum of money at the behest of someone else.

You have a criminal record extending from 2006 to 2019. You have nine convictions for assault, most of them aggravated. You have appeared on indictment for crimes of violence on four occasions and of particular significance are your High Court convictions:

• In 2009 you were sentenced to 44 months detention for assault to severe injury and danger of life when on bail, aggravated by the use of a weapon.

• In 2015 you were made subject to an extended sentence of 7 years with a 5 year custodial term for three charges of assault and robbery, two of which involved a weapon, and all committed on bail.

The murder of Bradley Welsh was a pre-meditated and meticulously planned assassination the ultimate reasons for which remain unknown to the court. The degree of planning which went into this might have seen you get away with it but for the courage of the citizens of Edinburgh in coming forward to speak up about what you did.

To shoot an unarmed man as he approached his own house was a cowardly as well as a wicked thing to do. His partner and young child were inside when you ended his life, apparently in the expectation of payment. As a result of your actions, Mr Welsh lost his life in his forties and his family and friends lost him forever. I have read of the impact of all this from his partner who describes the traumatic consequences for her family of what you did and how they have lost their home and can no longer feel safe.

I have listened to your counsel’s comments, there can be no mitigation for such a dreadful crime. People who go about their daily lives in the streets of Scotland’s cities ought to be safe from conduct such as yours. The court must do all it can to deter the commission of contract killings by the imposition of severe punishment.

In this case, in addition to the features of the crime which I have described, your serious convictions for crimes of violence and your committing this wicked crime of murder whilst subject to a position of trust on licence, are materially aggravating.

For the conviction of attempted murder on charge 1 you will go to prison for 10 years from today. There is no question of backdating when you have been recalled on licence during your remand.

Having regard to the whole circumstances, the punishment part on the charge of murder will be one of 28 years, also to be served from today.

This does not mean that this is a sentence of 28 years. You are sentenced to life imprisonment and you will serve at least 28 years before you can be considered for release on parole. It will be for the Parole Board to determine when you will ultimately be released and they will consider the safety of the public in reaching that decision.

Having approached sentencing in this way, I do not intend to make an order under section 16 of the 1993 Act.”

 

 

[Detournement]

I'm sure the police are desperately trying to build a case against the people who paid the money for the hit.....

I know two drug dealers who have done time after being set up by other drug dealers they were in business with. It definitely looks like the shooter in this case was led up the garden path.

[Shandon Par]

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

Sean Orman has been found guilty of the murder of Bradley Welsh following a two week trial at the High Court in Edinburgh.  Orman, who has a number of convictions for armed robbery and other offences, shot Welsh dead outside his house in Edinburgh's New Town on April 17th 2019.  Orman was also found guilty of attempted murder in relation to an assault on David McMillan, a close friend of Welsh, who was attacked in his home by several men with machetes a few weeks before Welsh was killed.  During the trial McMillan said that Orman hadn't been one of the men who attacked him but the jury convicted Orman anyway.  The tiral heard evidence that Orman had been paid £10,000 by organised crime figure George 'Dode' Baigrie to murder Welsh.

The Record have a long summary of the case here - https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/bradley-welsh-murder-gangland-hitman-24061326

It's not been stated formally but it seems that this murder falls into the ongoing, 20 year gangland feud between rival drug dealers in Glasgow, the Lyons family and the Daniels family.  The Daniels have been a long established group dealing heroin in Glasgow whereas the Lyons were seen as much lower level.  Around the year 2000 the theft of a batch of cocaine from a Daniels linked drug dealer caused an outbreak of violence that continues to this day.  The trial heard evidence that David McMillan had returned from visiting Mark RIchardson in prison, a notorious Edinburgh drug dealer currently serving a sentence for possession of a handgun, the night he was attacked.  Richardson has been linked to the Daniels family in the past.  Baigrie, who was named several times at the trial but doesn't appear to have been charged with anything in relation to this, has been called the Lyons family man in the East in the past.

It's worth saying that Bradley Welsh, whatever his past was and whatever he may or may not have been involved in, did do a lot for needy people through his boxing gym and other organisations.  The organisation he was involved with has since closed but did lots of excellent work with kids in the poorest areas of Edinburgh, arranging former Hibs and Hearts player to come and run completely free training sessions, as well as running food banks and programms to get kids bikes who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford them.  This was all done with no state funding whatsoever.  In fact, the organisation was on several occasions refused permission to use public parks for their coaching sessions by Edinburgh Council.  You can find their website here - https://solidaritynotcharity.com/

 

Thanks for posting this. I’m sure Div will love this thread! 

[paranoid android]

I'm told something similar happened between drug gangs in Drylaw and Dalkeith recently. 

As someone up there said, if they're killing each other, then jolly good. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

2 hours ago, supermik said:

As long as they are bumping each other off and not causing any impact on me then no fucks given from me.

Organised crime absolutely has a bearing on you, aye on you’re unlikely to be shot in the street, but the knock on impact of OCG’s pumping housing schemes full or heroin or dangerous street valium etc is massive. You’ve got OCG’s funding terrorist groups, human trafficking and child abuse too. Then theres the moves to legitimise their businesses or launder dirty money through fronts. People think its all shady gangsters and the like but the reach is massive and its everyone’s problem. 

[ICTChris]

This article about the Lyons-Daniels conflict lays out the corrosive impact that organised crime can have on communities.

https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/chirnsyde-lyons-v-daniels-how-14716085

 

[paddymcp]

3 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Sean Orman has been sentenced to life, with a minimum term of 28 years in prison for murder.  That seems lenient to me.  Murdering someone for money with a firearm in a public place in such a calculated way is an unspeakably serious crime.  

Orman had a long criminal record - he served five years in prison for armed robberies of bookmakers around the West of Edinburgh and was also caught during an armed robbery of a jewlery shop, although I don't think he was convicted there.  He was also sentenced to five years in prison for stabbing someone in a gang fight at the age of 17.

Wouldn't say 28 years is leniant. The tariff for a one victim assassination in Scotland seemed to be 22 years in recent years. 

Think its safe to say SO was a violent up-for-it smackhead who's been fired in to do other peoples dirty work. Be lucky to get out prison alive - either way.


 

Edited May 7, 2021 by paddymcp

[Moomintroll]

We used to get Eddie Lyons turning up with his tame Polis to buy stuff in the morning, the Daniel & McGovern mob would turn up in the afternoon to get their shopping for the Pub & Petrol Station. We were always shitting ourselves that one day they would turn up at the same time.