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SPFL2 RELEGATION STIGMA and VOTING


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The wee guy’s a dribbling buffoon and should be confined to the Falkirk thread if he must post about football. Not his strongest subject.
His post was relevant to this thread.

The LL clubs have had no interest in increasing relegation in the Lowland league so they aren't going to suddenly turn over a new leaf and vote for more relegation if they get in the SPFL.

Clubs will vote out of self interest regardless of what league they are in.
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26 minutes ago, Jack Burton said:

His post was relevant to this thread.

The LL clubs have had no interest in increasing relegation in the Lowland league so they aren't going to suddenly turn over a new leaf and vote for more relegation if they get in the SPFL.

Clubs will vote out of self interest regardless of what league they are in.

The opening post was about clubs being promoted FROM the LL and voting AGAINST relegation from the SPFL. 

Nothing was mentioned about relegation FROM the LL so I think his post was irrelevant to the question asked. 

But yes clubs will always vote with self interest. It's hardly something new. 

For what it's worth and it's going off topic but it's a question that's been asked on multiple pyramid threads, the LL have no need to open relegation if the SPFL aren't doing it either. 2 wrongs don't make a right but it's where we're at. 

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1 hour ago, Jack Burton said:

His post was relevant to this thread.

The LL clubs have had no interest in increasing relegation in the Lowland league so they aren't going to suddenly turn over a new leaf and vote for more relegation if they get in the SPFL.

Clubs will vote out of self interest regardless of what league they are in.

Except it wasn’t as the discussion was about promotion from the LL and voting. Nobody was talking about relegation. The boy’s a bellend.

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14 minutes ago, gaswork said:

La la land that's where those who think Scottish football will ever have a proper pyramid are living.
Years of debate and fantasy talk all for nothing, human nature and self preservation and money will always win end of story.
 

What rubbish - the pyramid system is developing well and making progress.  Covid has caused problems in last 2 seasons and caused these temporary controversies

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47 minutes ago, lowenan said:

The two topics go hand in hand. Can’t have one without the other.

They can though. Notice how it's magically all about what the LL & SPFL do, with the HL ignored as usual.

Nobody is trying to change the SPFL2 Play-off and it has nothing to do with how the LL handle relegation. If it was true the LL would have jumped to relegating half the league if it meant automatic promotion.

Edited by FairWeatherFan
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For Scottish football to progress it needs a pyramid system. Pyramid systems are a completely normal concept. In Scotland however, many old timers and boomers have become accustomed to the way things have been up until recently. Unfortunately these guys are the ones calling the shots it would seem and now that we have the prospect of a fully functioning pyramid system in this country - it frightens them. Their cosy lives of languishing in the 4th tier are on the verge of being totally shattered.

I get that clubs will want to protect their own interests. However the pyramid is clearly for the good of the game in every department - player development, competitiveness, fan experience, etc. It’s a no brainer and although League 1 and 2 clubs run the risk of voting for something that may see them one day go down, they must use this as encouragement to be better. That’s what being a football club is all about, to be the best you can and to win stuff. It’s not about propping up the rest of the table - nobody wants to do that, do they?

In my opinion the pyramid will be properly integrated into the Scottish system in the very near future and it will involve a straight relegation from League 2. Too much work on the pyramid has been done for it to fail now and there are literally no excuses for it not to happen. The faffing about that is currently happening regarding Brechin can’t keep happening every season and it’s just a matter of time now before it happens. Countries all over the world have pyramids. England has a pyramid. Egypt has pyramids. Pyramids are good. No amount of sobbing from the Brechin board or any other League 2 club board for that matter can make the pyramid go away.

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No L2 clubs think the pyramid will fall by the wayside nor that it won’t further evolve and develop over time.  Boomers and old timers and languishing are terms  you use that suggest you are equally as myopic as those you accuse.  Covid has impacted these last two seasons and hampered things - that is the truth of the matter - a temporary hitch as was the reticence of the juniors to properly engage at the outset and the lack of a Highland pyramid.  

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On 24/04/2021 at 00:09, Born To Run said:

Do we think the SPFL clubs would vote for further relegation?

Look at the behaviour of Brechin. Look at the comments from Albion Rovers gaffer Kerr. No chance.

Outstanding knowledge of Scottish football. Albion Rovers boss is Brian Reid.

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10 minutes ago, Vodka Vic said:

Outstanding knowledge of Scottish football. Albion Rovers boss is Brian Reid.

I think he is actually correct, he just forgot to add the Wan before his name.

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12 hours ago, Clayhole Blue said:

 


How many clubs in League Two have come out and said they oppose having the play-off this season? Clearly Brechin have, but how many others?

 

First of all, the comments from me is not mentioning oppose to the Playoff.

My comments are merely regarding the attitude the previous year when the playoff was stopped and then the comments after, Brechin chairman stating the lowland league should not have any promotion and should just get their house in order for a couple of years so football can get over Covid. Stenhousemuir chairman said similar and Cowdenbeath, (sure it as their chairman) back them up and sure another team put their bit in but cant recall.

 

Someone mentioned that I ignored the Highland league but that's not true, i didn't mention them in detail but do think , do they have the similar attitude but I don't live up in the highlands and have no connection there o don't know the ins and outs

 

Also, someone mentioned about self preservation and yeah clubs will think about self preservation but all the lowland clubs and Highland clubs who are at Tier 5 know that if the promotion/relegation is opened up it give a better chance of promotion to the SPFL2 after being relegated f there is 2 places available

Edited by Bestsinceslicebread
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Would Kelty, Bonnyrigg, or East Kilbride become big proponents of automatic relegation from League Two if they get there when the likes of Cowden, Elgin and Brechin aren't? Probably not. When clubs are put in a position where they have to vote for what's best for the game or what's best for them, they will vote for what's best for them. From the Old Firm, all the way down to Wigtown & Bladnoch. If you're a LL team right now, of course you'll argue for increased promotion, because it suits you. Promote a couple of these teams (especially ones who don't have sugar daddies to motor though L2) and watch that idealism soften a little bit. Are Edinburgh and Cove screaming for increased promotion and relegation between L2 and tier 5 now that they've made themselves comfortable in the SPFL? Not from what I've seen.

It should be a fundamental principle of the pyramid that all teams who win their 'tier' move up a level and all teams who finish bottom move down a level (at least). To get clubs to agree to the practicalities of that will probably require league reconstruction of some kind. A larger tier 4 so you don't spook too many L2 clubs with automatic relegation.

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It is a good question. When the highlight of the first lockdown was Saturday Sportsound you could tell that the Elgin Chairman Graham Tatters was not keen on Brora getting in.

I think it is misplaced. There is an obvious fear of relegation at the moment largely because under the current set up it would be so hard to get back. Make promotion and relegation automatic and that fear would be mitigated. Still a fear but possible to regroup and get back.

You would like to think Cove and Edinburgh City would welcome it.

 

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2 hours ago, Strathman said:

It is a good question. When the highlight of the first lockdown was Saturday Sportsound you could tell that the Elgin Chairman Graham Tatters was not keen on Brora getting in.

I think it is misplaced. There is an obvious fear of relegation at the moment largely because under the current set up it would be so hard to get back. Make promotion and relegation automatic and that fear would be mitigated. Still a fear but possible to regroup and get back.

You would like to think Cove and Edinburgh City would welcome it.

 

The other primary factor is the lack of any real prize/positional money in the pyramid.  Any SPFL club coming down burns up the parachute monies in trying to stabilise and it’s business model is fundamentally impacted.  The other impact of the pyramid is that L1 and 2 wages have shot up.  Thus there needs to be a means of bringing enhanced funding into the pyramid which will be beneficial across the board

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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎26‎/‎04‎/‎2021 at 11:27, Gordon EF said:

Would Kelty, Bonnyrigg, or East Kilbride become big proponents of automatic relegation from League Two if they get there when the likes of Cowden, Elgin and Brechin aren't? Probably not. When clubs are put in a position where they have to vote for what's best for the game or what's best for them, they will vote for what's best for them. From the Old Firm, all the way down to Wigtown & Bladnoch. If you're a LL team right now, of course you'll argue for increased promotion, because it suits you. Promote a couple of these teams (especially ones who don't have sugar daddies to motor though L2) and watch that idealism soften a little bit. Are Edinburgh and Cove screaming for increased promotion and relegation between L2 and tier 5 now that they've made themselves comfortable in the SPFL? Not from what I've seen.

It should be a fundamental principle of the pyramid that all teams who win their 'tier' move up a level and all teams who finish bottom move down a level (at least). To get clubs to agree to the practicalities of that will probably require league reconstruction of some kind. A larger tier 4 so you don't spook too many L2 clubs with automatic relegation.

yep, I agree.   We've often slagged of posters on here for thinking up restructuring solution . well the truth, numpties on a forum can and often have came up with better league structures at all levels than what we have at the moment( as well as a pile of convoluted dross that no one would want  ) but thinking it up and getting it implemented are two very different things.

The very nature of Scottish football (2 very large clubs , 3/4 large, 10-15 medium, 20 - 30 big part timers  , 40-60 petrol money part timers  etc etc)  means that you don't often have a majority of clubs who's interest align with each other - never mind what's best for the game overall . to get the sort of egalitarian pyramid we have been after for years, you would need several clubs to vote against their own short term interest , which again could leave chairman having to go against the wishes of their own fans, sponsors or even potentially players ( clubs which operate in the central belt except for matchdays ) so we will most likely to continue in circles, unless the decision is taken out of the clubs hands . which again would lead to uproar and would most certainly come with things such as old firm colts with no push back from clubs to oppose

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