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Scottish football without the OF


Old Firm in England or wherever  

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57 minutes ago, AJF said:

I’ve also said this before, but it will also probably never happen because non-OF teams are reluctant to give up 4 potential home ties against them that bring large attendances.

I’m sure there was even an occasion in the past where a team (Motherwell, I think) complained about the post-split fixtures as they had a 3rd trip to either Ibrox or Celtic Park and were unhappy as this impacted them financially because they didn’t get a large away crowd at Fir Park.

Partick Thistle were once in tears because a couple of teams got one more home game against either Rangers or Celtic than they did.

They were bleating about it being unfair and other, similar embarrassing sentiments.

A huge minter for them.

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6 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Partick Thistle were once in tears because a couple of teams got one more home game against either Rangers or Celtic than they did.

They were bleating about it being unfair and other, similar embarrassing sentiments.

A huge minter for them.

That minter was actually infectious and I got one just reading their statement. Budge-esque in its minterage.

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3 hours ago, jamamafegan said:


See this is the point I tried to make earlier. It must have been absolutely class for Aberdeen fans in the 80s during that spell, enjoying being the best club in the country ahead of the OF. But now there’s been a massive shift towards the OF, so much so that they cannot be knocked from their perch. It’s not right and it’s unhealthy for the game. I’d like to think most right minded OF fans would say the league would be more exciting if the likes of Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee United or the #Perthshire Massive had a realistic chance of winning the league - being able to at least take it to the last day of the season to win the league for example. We haven’t had a moment like that (Aberdeen again) since 1991.

The way the OF are cherished in our game is sickening, which is why it was so delicious when Rangers got sent to the third tier. It needs to change. The TV deals don’t help, the likes of Premier Sports and Sky are constantly having a OF love in. BT seemed to be a bit better at showcasing the Scottish game.

I think it’s ridiculous that the OF play each other at least 4 times a season, rising to potentially 7 games if you include the league cup and Scottish cup replays. Is there another league in the world that has two of the biggest rivals in world football who play each other that often? I think it’s tinpot and it contributes to this OF love in.

Said it before and I’ll say it again - I’d love the top flight to become a 16 team league and a more even distribution of wealth. Everyone plays each other home and away once and that’s it. Gives everyone less of those daunting trips to Celtic Park and Ibrox. We wouldn’t have to play the same team multiple times and would make trips to other grounds more exciting. Will probably never happen because of course the OF would kick up a stink about losing derbies and the ones at the top of Scottish football would pander to their wishes.
 

 

 

 

How do you propose redistributing ‘the wealth’? Celtic’s revenue solely from merchandising is higher than pretty much any non Old Firm club’s total revenue. What is the current distribution of TV revenue? I genuinely don’t know but I imagine Celtic/Rangers probably currently have a bigger share but addressing this would have very little impact due to the sheer difference in scale between the Old Firm and the other league clubs. Celtic can pay 10x the wages that Aberdeen can, and as a consequence they will 99 times out of a 100 be better than them over a league season.

The Old Firm & their fans are a cancer on our game. They need to be removed.

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4 hours ago, jamamafegan said:

 

 

 


See this is the point I tried to make earlier. It must have been absolutely class for Aberdeen fans in the 80s during that spell, enjoying being the best club in the country ahead of the OF. But now there’s been a massive shift towards the OF, so much so that they cannot be knocked from their perch. It’s not right and it’s unhealthy for the game. I’d like to think most right minded OF fans would say the league would be more exciting if the likes of Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee United or the #Perthshire Massive had a realistic chance of winning the league - being able to at least take it to the last day of the season to win the league for example. We haven’t had a moment like that (Aberdeen again) since 1991.

The way the OF are cherished in our game is sickening, which is why it was so delicious when Rangers got sent to the third tier. It needs to change. The TV deals don’t help, the likes of Premier Sports and Sky are constantly having a OF love in. BT seemed to be a bit better at showcasing the Scottish game.

I think it’s ridiculous that the OF play each other at least 4 times a season, rising to potentially 7 games if you include the league cup and Scottish cup replays. Is there another league in the world that has two of the biggest rivals in world football who play each other that often? I think it’s tinpot and it contributes to this OF love in.

Said it before and I’ll say it again - I’d love the top flight to become a 16 team league and a more even distribution of wealth. Everyone plays each other home and away once and that’s it. Gives everyone less of those daunting trips to Celtic Park and Ibrox. We wouldn’t have to play the same team multiple times and would make trips to other grounds more exciting. Will probably never happen because of course the OF would kick up a stink about losing derbies and the ones at the top of Scottish football would pander to their wishes.
 

 

 

 

It was like that in late sixties and early seventies. Wealth distribution much more even with all gates being shared. But Celtic still managed to win nine in a row and that's why the league was reduced to ten. The size of the league now will make little difference. The distribution of wealth is skewed because of Europe and that's only going to get worse.

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Though I am gutted my team went out yesterday. We have 5 teams left in the cup who will now all think they can win it. This is what football should be like!

Is it just a coincidence that in the season no fans have been in the grounds neither of the gruesome twosome have made it to the semifinals of either cup competition?

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2 hours ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

If you had no Old Firm you wouldn't get the utterly comedy gold moments like yesterday where the football fans unite in absolutely funking pissing themselves laughing in unison at their expense.

I'd rather not have them than have the occasional opportunity to laugh at them.

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I'd rather not have them than have the occasional opportunity to laugh at them.
They would still humiliate themselves on and off the pitch on a regular basis. Your day to day life would still be filled with people who carry them as a keystone of their identity despite never going to games.

Opportunities to laugh at them would remain high with the added bonus that they would have nothing to offer in retort. Its win win. Get them out.
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I think people overestimate the importance of the TV deal to the finances of Scottish football. What is the current one £130m over 4 years? I'd think 'Rangers' and Celtic hoover up most of that. Quick glance at the Dons last set of accounts show less than £2m broadcast revenue and that will include cup and Europe. Now, I know on turnover of £15m, that's quite substantial but the loss of the Glasgow mob wouldn't see it reduce to zero.

The way things are going with TV, are people going to continue to fork out for SKY/BT/Premier to watch Scottish Football. If Rangers and Celtic were to go, perhaps it would be time to consider SPFL TV as an online based channel. I've watched a few games this season on Club TV channels and the quality is improving markedly, no reason why for a fee, you couldn't have access to all club channels to watch games. I think PPV figures have been pretty reasonable, would be interesting to see viewership this season.

I also believe that the importance of 'Rangers' and Celtic to the TV deal is overstated. Yes, more people overseas and down South will tune into the Derby, but I very much doubt there are millions tuning into either of them playing any of the other 10. I probably watch more Championship games than I do games involving Rangers and Celtic. You watch it until they go into the lead and then turn it off. Our spanking at Ibrox and our 1-2 defeat at Pittodrie, I stopped watching at 0-2.

You would think crowds would rise as teams became more successful, further covering the shortfall from broadcasting.

In short, get them to f**k and we'll be fine without them. However, as has been mentioned above, clean break, no colty pish.

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2 minutes ago, 10menwent2mow said:

I think people overestimate the importance of the TV deal to the finances of Scottish football. What is the current one £130m over 4 years? I'd think 'Rangers' and Celtic hoover up most of that. Quick glance at the Dons last set of accounts show less than £2m broadcast revenue and that will include cup and Europe. Now, I know on turnover of £15m, that's quite substantial but the loss of the Glasgow mob wouldn't see it reduce to zero.

The way things are going with TV, are people going to continue to fork out for SKY/BT/Premier to watch Scottish Football. If Rangers and Celtic were to go, perhaps it would be time to consider SPFL TV as an online based channel. I've watched a few games this season on Club TV channels and the quality is improving markedly, no reason why for a fee, you couldn't have access to all club channels to watch games. I think PPV figures have been pretty reasonable, would be interesting to see viewership this season.

I also believe that the importance of 'Rangers' and Celtic to the TV deal is overstated. Yes, more people overseas and down South will tune into the Derby, but I very much doubt there are millions tuning into either of them playing any of the other 10. I probably watch more Championship games than I do games involving Rangers and Celtic. You watch it until they go into the lead and then turn it off. Our spanking at Ibrox and our 1-2 defeat at Pittodrie, I stopped watching at 0-2.

You would think crowds would rise as teams became more successful, further covering the shortfall from broadcasting.

In short, get them to f**k and we'll be fine without them. However, as has been mentioned above, clean break, no colty pish.
 

Do we know what sort of numbers are watching PPV?

If it's  predominantly people who would be attending games in normal times anyway then it isn't a great argument for SPFL TV.

The reality of the OF leaving (and I'm not saying this is a reason not to do it) would be a reduction in income to the league and the clubs would just have to adjust to that economic reality, I think.

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3 minutes ago, 10menwent2mow said:

I think people overestimate the importance of the TV deal to the finances of Scottish football. What is the current one £130m over 4 years? I'd think 'Rangers' and Celtic hoover up most of that. Quick glance at the Dons last set of accounts show less than £2m broadcast revenue and that will include cup and Europe. Now, I know on turnover of £15m, that's quite substantial but the loss of the Glasgow mob wouldn't see it reduce to zero.
 


The clubs in the top two places take 23% of the prize money in total, it's nowhere near "most of that". Aberdeen's prize money in 2018/19, the last season where they were published, was £1.812m - it's not split up by source of revenue, but the TV money accounts for the bulk of the SPFL's income. That was under the old TV deal, so I don't think it's implausible that another 4th place finish this year will net the club upwards of £2m before you take into account all other sources of broadcast revenue.

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4 minutes ago, craigkillie said:


The clubs in the top two places take 23% of the prize money in total, it's nowhere near "most of that". Aberdeen's prize money in 2018/19, the last season where they were published, was £1.812m - it's not split up by source of revenue, but the TV money accounts for the bulk of the SPFL's income. That was under the old TV deal, so I don't think it's implausible that another 4th place finish this year will net the club upwards of £2m before you take into account all other sources of broadcast revenue.

 

Kieran Maguire: Celtic and Rangers finances assessed – Football CFB

Not sure if this is correct but Aberdeen made £3. 4 million.

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1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:
 

Kieran Maguire: Celtic and Rangers finances assessed – Football CFB

Not sure if this is correct but Aberdeen made £3. 4 million.

It's not obviously correct but not a million miles away. And he's talking about the total broadcast income not just the cut of the league deal. 

Broadcast revenue 2019-£2.442m,  2020-£1.975m. Prize money 2019- £617k, 2020 £1,026k. 

Not sure where the tv money is in there, i'd guess in both, but those figures will include European broadcast and prize money, as well as cups. Also not sure where redtv shows up- could be there or commercial. 

Our gate money was higher than broadcast both years, including truncated season to March 2020.

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1 hour ago, coprolite said:

It's not obviously correct but not a million miles away. And he's talking about the total broadcast income not just the cut of the league deal. 

Broadcast revenue 2019-£2.442m,  2020-£1.975m. Prize money 2019- £617k, 2020 £1,026k. 

Not sure where the tv money is in there, i'd guess in both, but those figures will include European broadcast and prize money, as well as cups. Also not sure where redtv shows up- could be there or commercial. 

Our gate money was higher than broadcast both years, including truncated season to March 2020.

For me it goes back to the nonsense about 4 Glasgow derbies, TV shouldn't be dictating that with the dosh available maybe Aberdeen rely on the TV revenue more than Celtic and sevco.

Edited by wastecoatwilly
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