craigkillie Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, G51 said: So it turns out that it’s actually UEFA and FIFA breaking antitrust law by threatening all manner of consequences for the breakaway clubs. Who knew? People make this type of argument all the time, but the natural consequence of claiming that a sporting organisation is breaking competition laws by not allowing people to play would be that the entire concept of a sporting league or any other meritocratic competition would no longer be viable. If Stockport County applied to join the Premier League and were told to do one would that also be a breach of the competition laws? Edited April 20, 2021 by craigkillie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, coprolite said: But won't they still be registered with member associations for domestic competitions? I would assume if they are banned from international competitions they will also be kicked out of domestic leagues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, coprolite said: But won't they still be registered with member associations for domestic competitions? They would not be participating in domestic competitions either, because these clubs would have their memberships of their domestic leagues revoked on account of playing in an unregistered league. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 A sidenote in all this, Boris Johnson apparently clearing his diary to attempt to stop this is utterly ridiculous given he didn't show up to COBRA meetings about COVID in February last year 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dysartrovers Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 People make this type of argument all the time, but the natural consequence of claiming that a sporting organisation is breaking competition laws by not allowing people to play would be that the entire concept of a sporting league or any other meritocratic competition would no longer be viable. If Stockport County applying to join the Premier League and were told to do one would that also be a breach of the competition laws?Nobody applies to join the Premier league. They can get there on their own merit if they are good enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alert Mongoose Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 52 minutes ago, ahemps said: The Chinese league has 1 or 2 high paid foreigners then a bunch of players nobody has heard of. The ESL teams would literally be a full squad of the current best players in the world. Surely the players (or their agents) are going to look at the leaked plans around spending caps and say hang on - maybe we will get more money outside of this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAE1929 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 7 minutes ago, coprolite said: We don't have antitrust law. Too much American telly. That's the problem here. The Competition and Markets Authority is the UK equivalent . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheJTS98 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ahemps said: The fact these big clubs aren't even fighting their corner is bizarre. While I still wouldn't agree with them but if these owners came out and stated their vision and why it should happen then some people might get on board, in some ways as a competition it could be sold if they attempted to do that. The fact they are hiding and not even trying to sell it to their own fans never mind the footballing public is showing them up even more. Their approach is very strange. I get the feeling it's based on the kind of thing we see in America when they want to move a franchise. Just put out some glib excuses and ignore the fuss. But this is different because it is unprecedented. They seem to have completely over-looked that. If I'm in charge of this, surely these things have to be done before you announce. 1) Do your research and come out guns blazing with how many people all over the world are dying to watch it. Blitz the media with a positive message of providing the biggest games and the best players to the global audience and explain how you're going to do that using timezones and innovative scheduling and locations etc. Positive, focus on the football, focus on the global fans, global product etc. 2) Have a media partner lined up and ready to join you in promoting this from Day 1. As soon as the announcement is out. 3) Brand ambassador types. Sling a load of cash at Pele, or The Real Ronaldo, or whoever. But get a list of credible football people ready to quote, quote, quote from the first minute. 4) Only mention the money in terms of what you're going to do to help the other clubs left behind. Just be positive and talk about how amazing it's going to be, and how many people will watch it, and how it's the future of sport etc etc. 5) Have coaches and players from member clubs briefed with the lines. 'We can't wait to play the best every week and give our fans great games to watch' etc etc. Rope in club legends etc. Blitz the media with this pish and make the story all about these fucking amazing games. They've done none of these things. They're getting a fucking kicking from the entire media, all football people who talk about it criticise them, nobody is talking about the concept in any terms other than greed, and fans are pishing all over this with scorn and cynicism. It's very hard to see how they turn this round. Edited April 20, 2021 by TheJTS98 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Detournement said: I would assume if they are banned from international competitions they will also be kicked out of domestic leagues. 2 minutes ago, craigkillie said: They would not be participating in domestic competitions either, because these clubs would have their memberships of their domestic leagues revoked on account of playing in an unregistered league. This is how i assumed that the world cup ban would have been effected. But it does seem like the arseholes intend to stay in their domestic leagues. I guess they've had advice to say that sort of sanction would be a disproportionate restriction. However it ends up, i'm sure it's not cut and dried yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Just now, TheJTS98 said: The media reaction has been fascinating. How do the media now do an about face and report on this as a part of the football calendar? From a PR point of view it's already starting to look fucked. It seems to have no credible supporters at all. Nothing that relies on selling itself can succeed in that case. They have their own business model to think about. If Sky Sports and BT Sports bosses hadn't been thinking of the long term consequences of a European Super League they wouldn't be doing their job. The Super League is only going to have one broadcast partner, there simply aren't going to be enough games to share. So one of Sky or BT would definitely miss out. Or both if Amazon took the rights... Losing top level football is an existential threat to Sky. EPL is the main reason a very large number of their customers have Sky. Same for BT. The single most important thing to them was securing top level football. They did it by spending more on CL and getting some EPL games. if Sky knew they were going to have the ESL rights for 10 years or something like that they might have jumped on board. (the NFL signed a 10 year tv deal this year) but honestly it doesn't look likely any broadcaster is going to pay the vast sums that the ESL is projecting. They are talking double the current CL money. Sky balked at the cost of the CL years ago and BT aren't getting that many viewers to justify a huge increase in spending for the same teams in the ESL. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, dysartrovers said: 7 minutes ago, craigkillie said: People make this type of argument all the time, but the natural consequence of claiming that a sporting organisation is breaking competition laws by not allowing people to play would be that the entire concept of a sporting league or any other meritocratic competition would no longer be viable. If Stockport County applying to join the Premier League and were told to do one would that also be a breach of the competition laws? Nobody applies to join the Premier league. They can get there on their own merit if they are good enough. Yes, this is my point exactly. The Premier League has a set of rules which determine which clubs are allowed to participate in each season, and these rules are naturally exclusionary to other clubs, because that is the entire purpose of sporting leagues and competitions. Stockport being kept out of it because they haven't met the criteria to take part is the same as Liverpool being kept out of it because they haven't met the criteria to take part. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Just now, coprolite said: This is how i assumed that the world cup ban would have been effected. But it does seem like the arseholes intend to stay in their domestic leagues. I guess they've had advice to say that sort of sanction would be a disproportionate restriction. However it ends up, i'm sure it's not cut and dried yet. Intent to stay in their domestic leagues is one thing but the EPL rules say they can't do this. And if they get kicked out of domestic leagues the whole thing falls apart because the super league isn't going to pay the bills on its own. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuckleMoo Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 This is already looking like it's dead in the water, which is really fucking funny 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, coprolite said: This is how i assumed that the world cup ban would have been effected. But it does seem like the arseholes intend to stay in their domestic leagues. I guess they've had advice to say that sort of sanction would be a disproportionate restriction. However it ends up, i'm sure it's not cut and dried yet. I genuinely think they're floating along on the hubris of "they wouldn't dare try". It seems very clear to me that if there is a will for UEFA and FIFA to take these steps, then there is no genuine legal barrier to them. It's their competition and their rules. They're not stopping them from playing football, but simply not allowing them to play in their competitions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 minute ago, coprolite said: This is how i assumed that the world cup ban would have been effected. But it does seem like the arseholes intend to stay in their domestic leagues. I guess they've had advice to say that sort of sanction would be a disproportionate restriction. However it ends up, i'm sure it's not cut and dried yet. It'll all come down to the FA and the Premier League. There is no chance of Spain kicking out Barca and Real and I expect the Italians will be the same. To me the most likely outcome is the PL and FA call their bluff with the Government as peacemaker and they back down. The 12 clubs are still reliant on domestic games for now so all the power lies with the other 14. It's feasible for the EPL to start in August without the big 6 but there is no way the 6 can just play within the 12 team super league in season 21/22. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 minute ago, sparky88 said: The Competition and Markets Authority is the UK equivalent . Just now, craigkillie said: Yes, this is my point exactly. The Premier League has a set of rules which determine which clubs are allowed to participate in each season, and these rules are naturally exclusionary to other clubs, because that is the entire purpose of sporting leagues and competitions. Stockport being kept out of it because they haven't met the criteria to take part is the same as Liverpool being kept out of it because they haven't met the criteria to take part. Yes but the criterion for excluding Liverpool isn't just sporting merit (which ewould definitely be fine). It isn't obviously exclusively financial protection (which definitely wouldn't) but it is arguably that. There is no way the US owners have gone into this without an expensive legal opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheJTS98 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 minute ago, coprolite said: Yes but the criterion for excluding Liverpool isn't just sporting merit (which ewould definitely be fine). It isn't obviously exclusively financial protection (which definitely wouldn't) but it is arguably that. There is no way the US owners have gone into this without an expensive legal opinion. They seem to have gone into it without a media partner, so you never know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Just now, TheJTS98 said: They seem to have gone into it without a media partner, so you never know. Or at least one that is willing to go public, yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 16 minutes ago, sparky88 said: A sidenote in all this, Boris Johnson apparently clearing his diary to attempt to stop this is utterly ridiculous given he didn't show up to COBRA meetings about COVID in February last year Just outs him as the massive Sevco/Millwall fan that he is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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