European Super League.

[RandomGuy.]

9 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

The last Champions League final got 2m viewers in the USA. That's on a Saturday daytime kick-off and it was the final. Best figures for five years.

There's absolutely no evidence these clubs have an audience for regular fixtures in the USA.

Likewise in Asia. We've never seen the numbers. DAZN recently pulled their regional Champions League deal a year early because they were losing money showing it. There was also the Chinese company that binned off the Premier League. Companies like Astro, Bein, etc are coy about their viewing figures for English football and the Champions League. The best we get is the usual PR stuff about 2 billion viewers for Man Utd v Liverpool etc, which is patent nonsense. If these figures were good, we'd know.

We are constantly told that these huge markets exist. But there's nothing to back this talk up. Certainly no hard enough evidence to take to these clubs and tell them they should be playing games on a Wednesday afternoon.

I mean, its absolutely pointless rattling off viewing figures from different times, as the whole idea is to maximise these markets by finding timeslots that fit into the lives of fans in these countries. For most that'll be at night during the week.

Presumably they're trying to keep their finger in the domestic/CL pie too incase it backfires.

[Guest TheJTS98]

10 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I mean, its absolutely pointless rattling off viewing figures from different times, as the whole idea is to maximise these markets by finding timeslots that fit into the lives of fans in these countries. For most that'll be at night during the week.

Presumably they're trying to keep their finger in the domestic/CL pie too incase it backfires.

I don't think it's pointless to show that the market they are claiming is huge actually has no evidence to back-up its existence.

And even the domestic experience in England and the Champions League around Europe shows that putting football behind a paywall massively limits the audience. Compare viewing figures from ITV's Champions League nights to those of today. Or look at Sky's figures even for big Premier League games. They are not impressive.

In short, the struggles of selling pay tv for a market not overly emotionally invested in the teams playing is not the open goal people seem to be assuming it is. If Europeans don't pay for it, why will Asians? Especially since plenty of Asian countries have their own local leagues which are well-supported. Will Gamba Osaka fans stay home to watch Spurs v Real Madrid? Why?

Indonesia has its own domestic league which arouses quite intense passions and is very popular. Are Indonesians going to just stop watching it to watch ESL games? I don't see why they would. Would you stop watching your team for it?

Edited April 19, 2021 by TheJTS98

[San Starko Rover]

I actually think a UEFA super league is inevitable unfortunately but it should be played instead of the domestic league and 100% not a closed shop.

Personally if I was going to draw one up in future I’d go for something like this.

ESL 1 - 20 Clubs (3 relegation spots)
ESL 2 - 20 Clubs (4 relegation spots)

Below would be the leagues of the Individual countries. Each season the Champions of each nation would complete in a knock out tournament (like the old European Cup) with the final 4 being promoted to ESL 2.

Far from perfect and probably full of holes but at least it’d give the big sides what they want while giving your Celtics, Ajax’s and Galatasaray or any other club for that matter a chance to move into it.

[Monkey Tennis]

5 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

The journey to this point for the English clubs is kind of summed up by this video, with Wayne Rooney playing the role of UEFA and the child the role of the English clubs.

In the era when the English champions had to qualify for the Champions League, they never qualified. Knocked out by pesky Portuguese, Scottish, and Turkish teams. So, UEFA move the ball a bit closer to the goal for them by removing the need to qualify.

That still didn't work, since Man Utd were knocked out of their first group (having been parachuted in) by Gothenburg, and this was followed by Blackburn finishing last behind opposition from Norway, Poland, and Russia.

Since then there's been the ludicrous distribution of money (see how Man City and Ajax's payouts worked in 2019) as well as loading the competition with multiple clubs from the big countries and protecting them by seeding. UEFA could not have made it any easier for them. They couldn't fucking miss.

But, capitalism loves a sure thing, so a sure thing it must be. Even surer than the sure thing they had stitched up in the Champions League that means one semi-finalist since 2005 outside Big 4 plus PSG.

All true.

Berlusconi famously said in the early 90s that a problem with European competitions was the risk of elimination.  He said they didn't represent "modern thinking". Such sentiment was behind the creation and subsequent warping of the CL. 

Again, as others are saying, there is nothing out of the blue about this.  Instead, it's the logical next step in a journey the game was allowed to set out on thirty years ago.

[Monkey Tennis]

3 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

I actually think a UEFA super league is inevitable unfortunately but it should be played instead of the domestic league and 100% not a closed shop.

Personally if I was going to draw one up in future I’d go for something like this.

ESL 1 - 20 Clubs (3 relegation spots)
ESL 2 - 20 Clubs (4 relegation spots)

Below would be the leagues of the Individual countries. Each season the Champions of each nation would complete in a knock out tournament (like the old European Cup) with the final 4 being promoted to ESL 2.

Far from perfect and probably full of holes but at least it’d give the big sides what they want while giving your Celtics, Ajax’s and Galatasaray or any other club for that matter a chance to move into it.

...and earn the kind of money that completely distorts domestic competition.

Another bad idea.

[Blootoon87]

[San Starko Rover]

...and earn the kind of money that completely distorts domestic competition.
Another bad idea.

Don’t see how it would effect domestic competition as any team in it wouldn’t be playing in their domestic league unless relegated?

[The Master]

3 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

I actually think a UEFA super league is inevitable unfortunately but it should be played instead of the domestic league and 100% not a closed shop.

Personally if I was going to draw one up in future I’d go for something like this.

ESL 1 - 20 Clubs (3 relegation spots)
ESL 2 - 20 Clubs (4 relegation spots)

Below would be the leagues of the Individual countries. Each season the Champions of each nation would complete in a knock out tournament (like the old European Cup) with the final 4 being promoted to ESL 2.

Far from perfect and probably full of holes but at least it’d give the big sides what they want while giving your Celtics, Ajax’s and Galatasaray or any other club for that matter a chance to move into it.

Celtic and (The) Rangers would never go for that because only one could be promoted which hands the other the following season’s Scottish title on a plate. 

[San Starko Rover]

Celtic and (The) Rangers would never go for that because only one could be promoted which hands the other the following season’s Scottish title on a plate. 

But surely they aim to both get out of the SPFL? As I said sure there’s many holes in it.

[Monkey Tennis]

Just now, San Starko Rover said:

 

Don’t see how it would effect domestic competition as any team in it wouldn’t be playing in their domestic league unless relegated?

 

And they wouldn't have earned any money whilst there?

You'd get yoyo clubs, further devaluing domestic competition.  

A terrible, terrible idea.

[SANTAN]

As a Rangers fan I'm fully against this idea and would be the same if we were asked to join (beyond unlikely) but I must say I'm alright with the EPL being shook up, I was born in Leeds but don't support them but I must say if this were to happen I'd feel compelled to actually adopt them as a second team. 

[Forest_Fifer]

Both are large clubs and have been for a century or so. You don't win major league titles and European trophies without being a big team.
 

Forest have two European Cups. They are not a big team at the moment, and haven't been for decades.

[John Lambies Doos]

Celtic and (The) Rangers would never go for that because only one could be promoted which hands the other the following season’s Scottish title on a plate. 

One of them would probably turn it down so they could get 10 in a row. Thats what we're dealing with folks.

[San Starko Rover]

One of them would probably turn it down so they could get 10 in a row. Thats what we're dealing with folks.

Aye probably [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

[Jacksgranda]

12 minutes ago, The Master said:

Celtic and (The) Rangers would never go for that because only one could be promoted which hands the other the following season’s Scottish title on a plate. 

Assuming they reach the final 4.

[RandomGuy.]

26 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

Will Gamba Osaka fans stay home to watch Spurs v Real Madrid? Why?

This is the entire point of them trying to get these audiences midweek, something the Champions League doesn't allow.

I anticipate another 800 words where you fail to grasp this simple point and continue telling me there's no audience based on the amount of viewers watching games at 2am in Japan.

[RandomGuy.]

15 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

One of them would probably turn it down so they could get 10 in a row. Thats what we're dealing with folks.

No chance. They go as a pair or they don't go at all.

Celtics crowds when Rangers were working their way up the leagues says it all.

[San Starko Rover]

The plot thickens it appears.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/uefa-champions-league/story/4364380/super-league-clubs-start-legal-action-in-threat-to-uefafifa-on-breakaway-plan?linkId=116566673&date=190421&fbclid=IwAR22nPbKzkdjFq2WQKsuUre8bh6nygwq5ToFvsrX5hx5REAU74csSrVzRr4_aem_AUJ2njj6TqbFzMKlMDNSUvrzlSu3EH8mRUvkXkMHi0NwLXqGi5tAjs5Bs4-KrCIabK__feccbvfbsG52o1h1o6npJTs0KG0ZF3DgjMaRBwXqhw&utm_campaign=Engaged+Audience+Retargeting+-+Daily&utm_content=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_source=weplay

[GordonS]

 

3 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

Don't let recent history fool you. Chelsea and Man City aren't big clubs. They are two lucky clubs who happened upon lottery wins in the form of owners with no concept of money. Somewhere out there in the multiverse, both are still scrambling around the bottom half of the league whilst similarly unfashionable clubs like Crystal Palace and Birmingham City with their billions get invited in.

Everton and Leeds are bigger clubs than both of them.

Chelsea are particularly jammy - Abramovich was going to buy Spurs, he noticed Stamford Bridge out the window of his helicopter and asked who's ground it was, and then bought them (probably because they were cheaper but with the same potential).

3 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

But then I have f**k all sympathy for UEFA - they set the ball in motion by having a so-called Champions competition where non-Champions qualified.
 

I've never had a problem with that part of it tbh. If the European Cup had been set up with qualification like this from the outset nobody would have had a problem with it. Four clubs from the strongest countries, one from the weakest, it reflects the reality that some countries are much bigger and have more strong clubs.

My problems are the rounds that they come in at and the distribution of money.

51 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I think he’s being genuine in his anger at this to be fair to him but there is definitely an irony to him doing it from his position at sky. 

Not sure what Sky have done wrong. They pay the market rate to show games or they don't. They don't decide how the money is distributed. Their money has imbalanced the game but that's the fault of the FA and the clubs.

Murdoch and his empire are scum, obviously.

[Left Back]

2 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

The plot thickens it appears.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/uefa-champions-league/story/4364380/super-league-clubs-start-legal-action-in-threat-to-uefafifa-on-breakaway-plan?linkId=116566673&date=190421&fbclid=IwAR22nPbKzkdjFq2WQKsuUre8bh6nygwq5ToFvsrX5hx5REAU74csSrVzRr4_aem_AUJ2njj6TqbFzMKlMDNSUvrzlSu3EH8mRUvkXkMHi0NwLXqGi5tAjs5Bs4-KrCIabK__feccbvfbsG52o1h1o6npJTs0KG0ZF3DgjMaRBwXqhw&utm_campaign=Engaged+Audience+Retargeting+-+Daily&utm_content=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_source=weplay

That was news 12 hours ago on SkySports.