European Super League.

[Left Back]

10 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

They still need to pay tax on earnings for matches played in the UK.

"Non-UK resident sportspeople will pay UK tax on the proportion of their earnings which relate to UK activities. In the case of team sports - a non resident footballer playing a match here for example - earnings attributable to the UK match will be taxable in the UK."

https://www.taxback.com/blog/sportspeople-uk-tax/

Which is offset against tax paid in their tax resident country.  
 

Anyway, totally off topic to your point about requiring a visa to come and play football in this country which is simply not a requirement unless you’re becoming a resident and being employed in the UK

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

5 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Which is offset against tax paid in their tax resident country.  
 

Anyway, totally off topic to your point about requiring a visa to come and play football in this country which is simply not a requirement unless you’re becoming a resident and being employed in the UK

You need to be an eligible visitor to do that.

Do you think anyone can just come over for a game of football? For a start the game needs to be endorsed by the FA.

[Antony]

I really hope this goes through and they eventually leave their domestic leagues and UEFA altogether. Everyone is all for the Old Firm getting to f**k so why would fans be upset at these soulless entities leaving European football. It will turn the Premier League into a "farmers league" as they like to call everyone else and when Sky and all their sponsors start deserting they will be in the same boat as everyone else. Their income will depend mostly on the number of fans coming through the gates. They can moan but if its good enough for the likes of Olympiacos and Anderlecht then it's good enough for Bournemouth and Burnley. I hope Celtic, Rangers and probably Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs too tell the Premier League to f**k off if they come calling looking for clubs to make up the numbers. What will attendances in that league look like when the big 6 disappear and they can no longer spend hundreds of millions in a transfer window. It also opens the door for a much more competitive and exciting Champions League and Europa League. I worry with PSG, Bayern, Dortmund and the 3 big Italian clubs still hanging around that this could be a barrier in creating a fairer competition with money and qualification more evenly allocated. With less money floating around the players don't suddenly become worse. It just means talent will be more spread out and the onus is on clubs to develop good young players. 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

5 minutes ago, Antony said:

I hope Celtic, Rangers and probably Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs too tell the Premier League to f**k off if they come calling 

Absolutely gone at this. Tremendous. 

[Left Back]

15 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

You need to be an eligible visitor to do that.

Do you think anyone can just come over for a game of football? For a start the game needs to be endorsed by the FA.

Horseshit.

[Thistle_do_nicely]

https://www.football365.com/news/the-truth-we-have-gained-nothing-from-the-premier-league

an old article posted on P&B I remembered, found it again a wee bit ago with some search engine faffery.

Just 3 years old, too, in the wake of the Scudamore bonus grotesquery. If thats accurate about a Man Utd - Liverpool ticket costing about £11 adjusted for inflation back in 1991, that's... oh man, can't even find a word for it. Melancholy, maybe.

[HalfCutNinja]

26 minutes ago, Antony said:

I really hope this goes through and they eventually leave their domestic leagues and UEFA altogether. Everyone is all for the Old Firm getting to f**k so why would fans be upset at these soulless entities leaving European football. It will turn the Premier League into a "farmers league" as they like to call everyone else and when Sky and all their sponsors start deserting they will be in the same boat as everyone else. Their income will depend mostly on the number of fans coming through the gates. They can moan but if its good enough for the likes of Olympiacos and Anderlecht then it's good enough for Bournemouth and Burnley. I hope Celtic, Rangers and probably Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs too tell the Premier League to f**k off if they come calling looking for clubs to make up the numbers. What will attendances in that league look like when the big 6 disappear and they can no longer spend hundreds of millions in a transfer window. It also opens the door for a much more competitive and exciting Champions League and Europa League. I worry with PSG, Bayern, Dortmund and the 3 big Italian clubs still hanging around that this could be a barrier in creating a fairer competition with money and qualification more evenly allocated. With less money floating around the players don't suddenly become worse. It just means talent will be more spread out and the onus is on clubs to develop good young players. 

Lol at a Celtic fan fretting about a fairer competition with money more evenly allocated

[Antony]

25 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

Absolutely gone at this. Tremendous. 

For the EFL/EPL to keep the numbers the same you either bring in Celtic (60k), Rangers (50k), Hearts (20k), Hibs (20k) and Aberdeen (15k) or promote Hartlepool, Sutton, Torquay, Stockport, Wrexham and Halifax who all get crowds of around 2,000 except Wrexham who get maybe 4-5k. Also those attendances for Scottish clubs could increase you would imagine. 

The Premier League is about to lose its 6 biggest clubs which are the main draw for sponsors and TV channels. The money will drop quickly and so will the quality of player on show as a result. With the lower quality of football and the absence of the big 6, I'd imagine the biggest average attendance would be maybe 50,000 for West Ham or Newcastle. Aside from Aston Villa or Everton I'd be surprised if there is any other club that brings in over 30k on a week to week basis. Aside from the 4 English clubs I mentioned the next best attendance is Leicester with 32k. And again you would imagine this could go down. 

Whilst I don't think it will happen bringing in 5 Premier League or Championship sized clubs to the set up is surely not a crazy suggestion. These English clubs left behind are in danger and would surely be considering all options at the moment. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Antony

[Hibee_Hibernian]

Perez going on about making games shorter already alongside a few other bizarre comments this evening. This is going to be a funny watch, especially if the others have left him in charge 

[Antony]

5 minutes ago, HalfCutNinja said:

Lol at a Celtic fan fretting about a fairer competition with money more evenly allocated

So because I'm a Celtic fan I'm not allowed to hope that in future, finances are more evenly distributed and not hoovered up by the 2 Glasgow clubs while the rest fight for scraps? 

[Aim Here]

15 minutes ago, Antony said:

The Premier League is about to lose its 6 biggest clubs which are the main draw for sponsors and TV channels. The money will drop quickly and so will the quality of player on show as a result. With the lower quality of football and the absence of the big 6, I'd imagine the biggest average attendance would be maybe 50,000 for West Ham or Newcastle. Aside from Aston Villa or Everton I'd be surprised if there is any other club that brings in over 30k on a week to week basis. Aside from the 4 English clubs I mentioned the next best attendance is Leicester with 32k. And again you would imagine this could go down.

Haha. How does that work? If someone with top-tier football skills is offered only £30 million a year instead of £80 million, they're going to give up football and become the CEO of Coca Cola or a lottery winner instead? The ESL clubs are only 12 clubs, and so they'll only soak up about 200 top-tier footballers, tops - the worst case scenario is they'll hire the same 200 footballers they already have. (In reality, it'll be less than that, because the ESL has no relegation, so all the teams that aren't going to win anything in a given season have a big financial incentive to dump their most expensive players on the market in the winter transfer window and play 5 months worth of dead rubbers, the way things happen in American sports).

The reason player wages are so high is that the easiest way to ensure a club gets income is to win football matches, the easiest way to win football matches is to spunk as much money as possible on the best players you can afford, and the best player isn't 'best' in any absolute sense; all that matters is that he's better than the other players who are willing and able to play for the team. Basically the top teams are all fighting over the 1000 or 2000 or so best football players on the planet, and bidding all their spare cash on them. Unless the cash *really* dries up to nothing (and it won't), having less money to spunk on players just means the same players will be playing football but will be paid less - they're still going to be earning far more than they can realistically hope to get in any other profession because they'll still be squeezing all the disposable income out of the clubs they play for.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Aim Here

[HalfCutNinja]

8 minutes ago, Antony said:

So because I'm a Celtic fan I'm not allowed to hope that in future, finances are more evenly distributed and not hoovered up by the 2 Glasgow clubs while the rest fight for scraps? 

You're a rare breed if you do

[Antony]

37 minutes ago, HalfCutNinja said:

You're a rare breed if you do

I think most Celtic fans would want a more competitive Scottish football. Of course we kind of contradict ourselves when we celebrate 9 in a row or a quadruple treble but football and emotions aren't always logical. I don't know anyone who wouldn't want to see Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs close the gap and challenge for honours every year. Obviously how we go about closing that gap is where opinions would differ. 

Everyone looks back on the early 80s as a great time in Scottish football because of how exciting it was and who didn't enjoy seeing St Johnstone, Inverness, Ross County win their first major honours recently? 

[Antony]

55 minutes ago, Aim Here said:

Haha. How does that work? If someone with top-tier football skills is offered only £30 million a year instead of £80 million, they're going to give up football and become the CEO of Coca Cola or a lottery winner instead? The ESL clubs are only 12 clubs, and so they'll only soak up about 200 top-tier footballers, tops - the worst case scenario is they'll hire the same 200 footballers they already have. (In reality, it'll be less than that, because the ESL has no relegation, so all the teams that aren't going to win anything in a given season have a big financial incentive to dump their most expensive players on the market in the winter transfer window and play 5 months worth of dead rubbers, the way things happen in American sports).

The reason player wages are so high is that the easiest way to ensure a club gets income is to win football matches, the easiest way to win football matches is to spunk as much money as possible on the best players you can afford, and the best player isn't 'best' in any absolute sense; all that matters is that he's better than the other players who are willing and able to play for the team. Basically the top teams are all fighting over the 1000 or 2000 or so best football players on the planet, and bidding all their spare cash on them. Unless the cash *really* dries up to nothing (and it won't), having less money to spunk on players just means the same players will be playing football but will be paid less - they're still going to be earning far more than they can realistically hope to get in any other profession because they'll still be squeezing all the disposable income out of the clubs they play for.

That's kind of a simplistic way to look at it. While the top clubs in the new Premier League could still pay more money I'm more looking at the bigger picture, and clubs further down the pecking order. Maybe Championship clubs will no longer be able to spend more money than Celtic and Rangers and maybe League Two clubs won't pay better wages than some Scottish Premiership clubs. Midtable English clubs will no longer be as likely to fork out huge sums on an 18 year old from Palmeiras or Santos that will only be a squad player. The player will stay put for another couple of years benefitting that club and competition. Like I said less money doesn't mean there is less talent but it could mean the talent is more evenly spread out. Yes Everton and Villa will still play their top earners more than Celtic or Rangers but maybe sitting on a bench at Southampton or Leicester becomes less ludicrous than staying at Celtic or Rangers a few years longer as one of the top earners. 

If English football existed in isolation then yes, less money would make no difference as the footballers aren't going to change jobs. But English football doesn't exist in isolation. There is Brazilian, Ukrainian, Turkish clubs out there which pay a certain amount. Maybe now instead of Besiktas paying similar money to a midtable Championship club, they pay similar money to a midtable Premier League club. This would be obviously weaken English football. 

Instead of Ajax or Benfica paying similar wages to a Championship club they now will pay similar wages to a midtable Premier League club if England is no longer getting huge TV and sponsorship deals on the same scale as they did before. 

Less money in the game is a good thing in many ways in my opinion. As you rightly pointed out the Super League clubs will absorb more cash but they won't be absorbing anymore players. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Antony

[AndyX]

2 hours ago, Left Back said:

Which is offset against tax paid in their tax resident country.  
 

Anyway, totally off topic to your point about requiring a visa to come and play football in this country which is simply not a requirement unless you’re becoming a resident and being employed in the UK

Um, well......

Serge Aurier: PSG defender refused entry to UK before Arsenal game - BBC Sport

[Guest TheJTS98]

10 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

This is the entire point of them trying to get these audiences midweek, something the Champions League doesn't allow.

I anticipate another 800 words where you fail to grasp this simple point and continue telling me there's no audience based on the amount of viewers watching games at 2am in Japan.

Anticipate what you like.

Midweek football already exists in Asia. Japanese football has its own hectic schedule. Asian football has its own continental competitions, not to mention the hectic and in various countries wildly popular televised baseball, badminton, and cricket.

These are sports with deep cultural reach which are played by genuine regional superstars. Inter v Barcelona isn't going to suddenly win the continent over. Especially given that there's a culture already ingrained of football being something you watch in short highlights on Twitter or Youtube.

You seem to have a desire for all things to be framed in aggressively phrased absolutes. I understand why they want to change the times. I've been discussing this with various posters on here for months. But that doesn't mean they are bound for success. There's no evidence whatsoever of a mass audience for this in Asia or North America, and my post was in response to someone claiming Asian audiences would pay for this if Europeans were to boycott it.

That's not based on reality. In Malaysia, for example, the broadcaster that shows EPL games primetime at the weekend only has 3.6m subscribers in a country of 32 million. The same company already broadcasts all the big teams who will be in this tournament. Not all of those subscribers have the sports package, and a lot of those who do will have it to watch badminton. We're not talking a mass market here. The fact that they are so secretive about the actual viewing figures speaks volumes.

You've also got the other issues mentioned previously, like the questionable ability of a mass Asian market to pay significant money for a subscription, and the general difficulties of subscription tv football in general. Also, football is not the top sport in a number of well-populated Asian countries. It's a common line that this is all for Asian fans. But when you scratch the surface, that doesn't make sense.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to argue with me about. If you're arguing that I don't understand why they want to change the times, you're wrong. And if you're arguing that there's definitely a market for this in Asia if they change the kick-off times, well, you're arguing for something that is supported by absolutely no evidence. I'm not saying anything definitive, I'm using the available evidence to look at the situation.

Edited April 20, 2021 by TheJTS98

[SlipperyP]

9 hours ago, TheJTS98 said:

It's possible.

I'm not sure the Asia angle is as strong as commonly held though.

The Champions League more or less passes the region by. Beyond a small group of fanatics, nobody is staying up till four or five in the morning on a school night to watch games regularly.

DAZN recently cut short their regional deal to show the Champions League across Japan, Taiwan, Thailand, and a few other countries. I think people assume there's a huge market, when there's no actual evidence of that.

The Premier League does well. Those Saturday and Sunday early afternoon kick-offs are ideal. But even the 4pm Super Sunday game is something most people will give a miss. Midnight on a Sunday night is grim when you're looking at Monday morning.

So, with all these obstacles considered, I don't think this enterprise will be betting the house on Asia paying for this. Also, in a number of Asian countries pay tv is beyond the reach of a lot of potential viewers. Put that altogether and you've got Asian tv deals for this almost certainly being far less valuable than Europe. Much like existing Champions League contracts.

The market is Europe when it comes to live tv.

Pretty much this.

 I've stayed here now 13 years and know of nobody staying up during the night to watch football (apart from me). There was once an outdoor pub in the Singburi town that put up a big screen and advertisement all over the province that they would be screening fitba "champions league nights".  It closed within the first month. 

I'm sure there is people, however as you said, the market is not what some folk think.

Also an undercurrent of football snobbery on this thread, that you are the real fans and everyone else (Far East/Asia/USA) are just fake fans. 

It fucking hard to support your local team, when you walk down the village (yes village) market and all the billboards are for Liverpool/Man U/Chelsea/Man City/Barcelona/Madrid and now Leicester, buy your coke/pepsi with team logo of theses clubs, can't buy the local teams strip, you have to go to the club shop, while all the other teams above are out on display in the market, it literally shoved down your throat that these are the only clubs that exist. I see sometimes the sat/sun midday EPL game free to view council TV if its one of the  teams that are playing that I mentioned.  Saying all that still don't know anyone getting up at 01:45 to watch football, no matter who is playing.  Just watch the highlight the next day on youtube.

[Guest TheJTS98]

3 minutes ago, SlipperyP said:

It fucking hard to support your local team, when you walk down the village (yes village) market and all the billboards are for Liverpool/Man U/Chelsea/Man City/Barcelona/Madrid and now Leicester, buy your coke/pepsi with team logo of theses clubs, can't buy the local teams strip, you have to go to the club shop, while all the other teams above are out on display in the market,

Haha!

I've been trying for ages to get a KL City top. Can't be done.

Even at the stadium a couple of weeks ago for the first game back they didn't fucking have any!

[Detournement]

7 hours ago, Left Back said:

 

I’ve travelled to many countries for business purposes.  Never needed a visa for it.  

As example the USA requires a specific visa for business travel but certain nationalities are entitled to apply for a visa waiver through ESTA but that still requires declaring business travel and it being approved. 

On the tax issue boxers and tennis players are taxed on money earned while working in the UK and a percentage of their global endorsements. Footballers playing in UEFA/FIFA competitions aren't. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Detournement

[tongue_tied_danny]