Top 5 ruined football tournaments

[Latino Lover]

1) the champions league:

not in a sense that it no longer consists of just champions but it’s behind a paywall for most people and has become incredibly stale since the 90s and early 00s imo.  

2) the European championship 

previously the best tournament pound for pound, I just about remember euro 92 where just qualifying was a great achievement and saw Belgium, Italy and Spain among other miss out after holders France didn’t even qualify to defend title in 88, brutal. 8 was. Probably too few given the political changes in early 90s Europe and the 16 team format worked brilliantly from 1996-2012. The 24 team format is too clunky and is an ocd nightmare with 36 group games just to see 8 side eliminated. I went to France in 2016 and it was a poor tournament outwith the runs of Wales and Iceland, who would have qualified if it was set for 16 anyway. Whilst I’m not against the nations league as such it has made this tournament pretty impossibly miss out on for the big sides and made qualifying quite dull.  I’ve got tickets for this summer too although can’t see me getting in, and the multi national host format looks like it could make it feel less tournament like imo, but not many countries will be able to host a 24 team tournament individually going forwards.

3) the fa cup

an obvious one but since man United were a bit harshly blamed for not defending in 2000 as the fa wanted them to play in Brazil, it has definitely declined. Since new Wembley has hosted all the semis this has also killed a bit of the magic and it is way down the list of priorities these days, even for struggling premier league sides who never get a sniff of europe.

4) the cup winners cup

not really ruined more discontinued  but it brought delightfully random moments such as English non league side Merthyr beating Atalanta, after winning a welsh cup. Some unusual finalists from the eastern bloc.  Absorbed by the clunky europa league which  itself is a pale imitation of the uefa cup which boasted a lot of strong sides in the early 90s, arguably the strongest field of all when only the league winners qualified for the European cup.

5) the World Cup.

bit of a pre emotive one this as the last two editions have been excellent however Qatar 2022 leaves a sour taste as does the ridiculous 48 team expansion with a proposed 12 groups of 3 before going to knock out rounds.   The breakdown of new places will likely see a lot more minnows from Asia and Africa which whilst fair enough will definitely pull down the quality significantly.

 

honourable mention for the anglo Italian/Scottish cups which I never got to fully appreciate but through up such ties as fiorentina - Southend, Swindon - Napoli and port vale - Genoa.

 

 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

5 hours ago, Latino Lover said:

1) the champions league:

not in a sense that it no longer consists of just champions but it’s behind a paywall for most people and has become incredibly stale since the 90s and early 00s imo.  

2) the European championship 

previously the best tournament pound for pound, I just about remember euro 92 where just qualifying was a great achievement and saw Belgium, Italy and Spain among other miss out after holders France didn’t even qualify to defend title in 88, brutal. 8 was. Probably too few given the political changes in early 90s Europe and the 16 team format worked brilliantly from 1996-2012. The 24 team format is too clunky and is an ocd nightmare with 36 group games just to see 8 side eliminated. I went to France in 2016 and it was a poor tournament outwith the runs of Wales and Iceland, who would have qualified if it was set for 16 anyway. Whilst I’m not against the nations league as such it has made this tournament pretty impossibly miss out on for the big sides and made qualifying quite dull.  I’ve got tickets for this summer too although can’t see me getting in, and the multi national host format looks like it could make it feel less tournament like imo, but not many countries will be able to host a 24 team tournament individually going forwards.

3) the fa cup

an obvious one but since man United were a bit harshly blamed for not defending in 2000 as the fa wanted them to play in Brazil, it has definitely declined. Since new Wembley has hosted all the semis this has also killed a bit of the magic and it is way down the list of priorities these days, even for struggling premier league sides who never get a sniff of europe.

4) the cup winners cup

not really ruined more discontinued  but it brought delightfully random moments such as English non league side Merthyr beating Atalanta, after winning a welsh cup. Some unusual finalists from the eastern bloc.  Absorbed by the clunky europa league which  itself is a pale imitation of the uefa cup which boasted a lot of strong sides in the early 90s, arguably the strongest field of all when only the league winners qualified for the European cup.

5) the World Cup.

bit of a pre emotive one this as the last two editions have been excellent however Qatar 2022 leaves a sour taste as does the ridiculous 48 team expansion with a proposed 12 groups of 3 before going to knock out rounds.   The breakdown of new places will likely see a lot more minnows from Asia and Africa which whilst fair enough will definitely pull down the quality significantly.

 

honourable mention for the anglo Italian/Scottish cups which I never got to fully appreciate but through up such ties as fiorentina - Southend, Swindon - Napoli and port vale - Genoa.

 

 

Can't disagree with any of those tbh. I can't even remember the last time I bothered watching a Champions League game. Turgid shite. I'll have even less interest in whatever future Euro Superleague they eventually cobble together.

I grew up watching the 78, 82 and 86 World Cups, which were all fantastic tournament. Italia 90 was alright, everything since has been largely shite. South Africa 2010 was probably the worst of the lot, atrocious football and those fucking Vuvuzelas.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Agree with the CL. Also the Euros. Used to be good when confined to 8-16 teams. As much the Wales and Iceland tournament was interesting, it was largely utter shite quality games due to 24 teams being there.  World Cup is going to be the same. Last decent Euros for me was 92 with peak being 84.

Still enjoy the FA cup especially the earlier rounds. Shite when you get to the QF and it’s 8 reserve EPL teams though.

 

[Latino Lover]

I realise my whole post is a bit ya da. The euro 2000/8 tournaments are considered something of a high point and more than half the field had a reasonable shout at winning. Something you could never say about a World Cup. 

[Richey Edwards]

7 hours ago, Latino Lover said:

1) the champions league:

not in a sense that it no longer consists of just champions but it’s behind a paywall for most people and has become incredibly stale since the 90s and early 00s imo.  

2) the European championship 

previously the best tournament pound for pound, I just about remember euro 92 where just qualifying was a great achievement and saw Belgium, Italy and Spain among other miss out after holders France didn’t even qualify to defend title in 88, brutal. 8 was. Probably too few given the political changes in early 90s Europe and the 16 team format worked brilliantly from 1996-2012. The 24 team format is too clunky and is an ocd nightmare with 36 group games just to see 8 side eliminated. I went to France in 2016 and it was a poor tournament outwith the runs of Wales and Iceland, who would have qualified if it was set for 16 anyway. Whilst I’m not against the nations league as such it has made this tournament pretty impossibly miss out on for the big sides and made qualifying quite dull.  I’ve got tickets for this summer too although can’t see me getting in, and the multi national host format looks like it could make it feel less tournament like imo, but not many countries will be able to host a 24 team tournament individually going forwards.

3) the fa cup

an obvious one but since man United were a bit harshly blamed for not defending in 2000 as the fa wanted them to play in Brazil, it has definitely declined. Since new Wembley has hosted all the semis this has also killed a bit of the magic and it is way down the list of priorities these days, even for struggling premier league sides who never get a sniff of europe.

4) the cup winners cup

not really ruined more discontinued  but it brought delightfully random moments such as English non league side Merthyr beating Atalanta, after winning a welsh cup. Some unusual finalists from the eastern bloc.  Absorbed by the clunky europa league which  itself is a pale imitation of the uefa cup which boasted a lot of strong sides in the early 90s, arguably the strongest field of all when only the league winners qualified for the European cup.

5) the World Cup.

bit of a pre emotive one this as the last two editions have been excellent however Qatar 2022 leaves a sour taste as does the ridiculous 48 team expansion with a proposed 12 groups of 3 before going to knock out rounds.   The breakdown of new places will likely see a lot more minnows from Asia and Africa which whilst fair enough will definitely pull down the quality significantly.

 

honourable mention for the anglo Italian/Scottish cups which I never got to fully appreciate but through up such ties as fiorentina - Southend, Swindon - Napoli and port vale - Genoa.

 

 

I don't disagree with any of that.

I think football has been ruined in general. I don't even watch it anymore, apart from Ayr United and Scotland matches.

[Latino Lover]

3 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said:

I don't disagree with any of that.

I think football has been ruined in general. I don't even watch it anymore, apart from Ayr United and Scotland matches.

Covid hasn’t helped. I’ve watched one Newcastle game this calendar year. Good to see you’re still about anyway richey, sad I never got to see you in any of my 7 manics gigs.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

4 hours ago, Day of the Lords said:

Can't disagree with any of those tbh. I can't even remember the last time I bothered watching a Champions League game. Turgid shite. I'll have even less interest in whatever future Euro Superleague they eventually cobble together.

I grew up watching the 78, 82 and 86 World Cups, which were all fantastic tournament. Italia 90 was alright, everything since has been largely shite. South Africa 2010 was probably the worst of the lot, atrocious football and those fucking Vuvuzelas.

70 world cup was the first one I remember - mainly becuse of Brazil, who confused me by not sticking to the positions their shirt numbers would suggest. Oh, and the Esso coins.

I think the allure, rather than pure nostalgia, of those tournaments of yesteryear is that they were football tournaments for football fans - the rest of the world didn't give much of a fúck and these events were a celebration of what we loved and what fans of all countries had in common. I watched the '74 final on a boat in the middle of Lake Lugano, surrounded by mingled German and Dutch fans, and it was a great day. 

I think your timings are about right, and coincide with the rise of football as an unstoppable commercial force and the spread of people who had no idea claiming a favourite team, normally from miles away and surprisingly, usually successful. I do lay a lot of the blame at the feet of Murdoch's crews at Sky and the Scum, but once the rest of the media realised the money to be made, the momentum built. The Taylor Report, far from ensuring safety of football fans, excluded the majority of us from engaging to anything like the extent we used to. Then came the English Premier League, and the sport moved, very often, onto the front pages rather than the back. 

Argentina, Mexico and Spain were magical - I can still replay goals from each on my in-head cinema screen. I have to say, though, that I remember Italia 90 as the time Cameroon came raging out of Africa to scare the shit out of the established Big Guns before, in my humble opinion, beating themselves. I'm not some ABE(*) fan, but England to me had their only good game in that tournament when they drew with the Germans. Similar to the way, in 2018, that the first decent team they played turfed them out. 

The champions' League is a travesty. Back in the 70's and 80's, European games were exciting from August to May**. Now, by the time it actually becomes competitive after Christmas, who fucking cares?

As for the Europa League - even folk who care about the Champions' League couldn't give a fúck. 'Nuff said, imho.

 

*Except in egg-chasing, but that's because the RFU is such a set of arrogant tory cúnts, not because of where they're from. 

** Rarity value helped, obviously - but the sight (and sound) on yer new 26" telly of an Anfield, Parkhead, Ibrox or City Ground(!) in its emerald green, floodlit glory was magical - especially if you were used to more modest surroundings for your midweek fix. 

[Jacksgranda]

2 hours ago, Richey Edwards said:

I don't disagree with any of that.

I think football has been ruined in general. I don't even watch it anymore, apart from Ayr United and Scotland matches.

So,you don't watch football, then?

[Jacksgranda]

2 hours ago, Latino Lover said:

Covid hasn’t helped. I’ve watched one Newcastle game this calendar year. Good to see you’re still about anyway richey, sad I never got to see you in any of my 7 manics gigs.

I've actually watched more football (on TV) this last year than previously, mostly Irish League and Scottish Championship games, with the odd Scottish Cup match thrown in. I've been enjoying it.

[Jacksgranda]

11 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

70 world cup was the first one I remember - mainly becuse of Brazil, who confused me by not sticking to the positions their shirt numbers would suggest. Oh, and the Esso coins.

I think the allure, rather than pure nostalgia, of those tournaments of yesteryear is that they were football tournaments for football fans - the rest of the world didn't give much of a fúck and these events were a celebration of what we loved and what fans of all countries had in common. I watched the '74 final on a boat in the middle of Lake Lugano, surrounded by mingled German and Dutch fans, and it was a great day. 

I think your timings are about right, and coincide with the rise of football as an unstoppable commercial force and the spread of people who had no idea claiming a favourite team, normally from miles away and surprisingly, usually successful. I do lay a lot of the blame at the feet of Murdoch's crews at Sky and the Scum, but once the rest of the media realised the money to be made, the momentum built. The Taylor Report, far from ensuring safety of football fans, excluded the majority of us from engaging to anything like the extent we used to. Then came the English Premier League, and the sport moved, very often, onto the front pages rather than the back. 

Argentina, Mexico and Spain were magical - I can still replay goals from each on my in-head cinema screen. I have to say, though, that I remember Italia 90 as the time Cameroon came raging out of Africa to scare the shit out of the established Big Guns before, in my humble opinion, beating themselves. I'm not some ABE(*) fan, but England to me had their only good game in that tournament when they drew with the Germans. Similar to the way, in 2018, that the first decent team they played turfed them out. 

The champions' League is a travesty. Back in the 70's and 80's, European games were exciting from August to May**. Now, by the time it actually becomes competitive after Christmas, who fucking cares?

As for the Europa League - even folk who care about the Champions' League couldn't give a fúck. 'Nuff said, imho.

 

*Except in egg-chasing, but that's because the RFU is such a set of arrogant tory cúnts, not because of where they're from. 

** Rarity value helped, obviously - but the sight (and sound) on yer new 26" telly of an Anfield, Parkhead, Ibrox or City Ground(!) in its emerald green, floodlit glory was magical - especially if you were used to more modest surroundings for your midweek fix. 

Agree 100%. (Only wish my first memories of World Cup finals was 1970, rather than 1966...)

[Shotgun]

2 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

70 world cup was the first one I remember - mainly becuse of Brazil, who confused me by not sticking to the positions their shirt numbers would suggest. Oh, and the Esso coins.

<Snip>

Thanks for this. It saved me typing it all out, which is what I would've done if you hadn't posted it first.

(Putting on cardigan, lighting pipe and settling back in armchair as the youngsters sit at my feet.) 

Specifically talking about the World Cup. There was a certain magic in the competition back in the old days. 1970 was the first I remember too and while it's hard to imagine now, the very idea of seeing live television coverage from the other side of the world was tremendously exciting. You watched the games at the same time as everyone else and talked about them endlessly the next day, whether in the workplace or the playground.

What made it particularly special was we were watching players who hardly anyone had ever seen before. Not just the fans but the players and coaches too. No hours of TV coverage, videos to study, or experience of playing against them. For the most part, footballers played within their own country where the style of play was very different from one to another. South America, northern and southern Europe all had differing approaches to the game and the teams had to figure out how to manage the opposition while on the park, rather than in advance. For those of us used to watching the game played on mud-swamps with 30lb sodden leather footballs; to see the Brazilians dancing around with the ball on a dry, bone hard pitch was a revelation. The speed of their game was just phenomenal.

Nowadays the world's best players are all in Europe, usually within a small pool of teams. They've played each other multiple times, are often teammates and even friends. They've grown up watching and analysing each others' game and know all the strengths and weaknesses. Imagine having to go up against Ronaldo or Messi without having seen them play before.

I can't get revved up for Qatar at all. Never mind the atrocity of them being awarded the competition in the first place, the disgraceful treatment of the workers or the fact that they have no football culture, or that it's stupid hot. 12 groups of 3 is an abomination. Two teams playing each other knowing what result they both need? Teams knowing they're on their way home after 1 game with another meaningless tie still to play against a team for whom the result means everything? What could possibly go wrong. Bleh.

Just as my Da bored me about how much better the game was in his day; I'm continuing the tradition. No doubt by 2060 there will be a bunch of sad old geriatrics complaining about how "In my day there were only 48 teams in the World Cup and you had to watch the games on television or the Internet. It was so much better back in the 20's. You kids today don't know what you're missing etc. etc.)

Edited April 16, 2021 by Shotgun

[Latino Lover]

2 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

I've actually watched more football (on TV) this last year than previously, mostly Irish League and Scottish Championship games, with the odd Scottish Cup match thrown in. I've been enjoying it.

I’d got rid of sky due to gradually not caring but even due covid I’d watch Newcastle games in the pub just for some sort of atmosphere. Not being there means I’d take relegation for better away games next year but try as we might it looks unlikely. 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

2 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

So,you don't watch football, then?

Badoom, and indeed, tish. 

[Jacksgranda]

7 minutes ago, Latino Lover said:

I’d got rid of sky due to gradually not caring but even due covid I’d watch Newcastle games in the pub just for some sort of atmosphere. Not being there means I’d take relegation for better away games next year but try as we might it looks unlikely. 

I've been watching on terrestrial TV (on my laptop).

[Richey Edwards]

3 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

So,you don't watch football, then?

You could say that.

[Lurkst]

Argentina 78

Spain 82

Mexico 86

Italia 90

France 98

 

 

[DA Baracus]

Morons were told that staying in the English Premier League is more important than the FA Cup and bought in to it fully, to the extent that a swathe of fans have genuinely convinced themselves of it. Worse, a load of managers have either bought that shite or are pressured by chairmen/boards who have.

Teams could make a final and even win it, but instead get pumped out early because they play a reserve team.

[DA Baracus]

Up here I feel that the Scottish Cup isn't what it was. 

It seems that, far too often, clubs from the same league play each other.

[tongue_tied_danny]

On 16/04/2021 at 07:47, Day of the Lords said:

Can't disagree with any of those tbh. I can't even remember the last time I bothered watching a Champions League game. Turgid shite. I'll have even less interest in whatever future Euro Superleague they eventually cobble together.

I grew up watching the 78, 82 and 86 World Cups, which were all fantastic tournament. Italia 90 was alright, everything since has been largely shite. South Africa 2010 was probably the worst of the lot, atrocious football and those fucking Vuvuzelas.

The 2010 world cup was shite, but it was partially redeemed when Die Mannschaft shafted Engerland right up the cooncil gritter while their fans chanted: you're just a small part of Scotland.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

20 minutes ago, tongue_tied_danny said:

The 2010 world cup was shite, but it was partially redeemed when Die Mannschaft shafted Engerland right up the cooncil gritter while their fans chanted: you're just a small part of Scotland.

Incredibly I had forgotten about that glorious match 

I was genuinely disappointed Germany didn't go on to score 6 or 7. They tore England to shreds.