Time for a new National Conference League?

[Cyclizine]

4 hours ago, Thom & Gerry said:

They are only in the Pyramid system as the SFA told them to take or leave it, ie exclusion from National competitions

This isn't true. The SFA were going to set up their own North and South regional leagues. The Highland League said they would take on the role of the northern feeder themselves.

[Jack Burton]

I agree with Burnie that a 16 club SPFL2 without the Colts teams would be the best solution provided it comes with automatic promotion and relegation to the HL and LL - whether two automatic or one plus a play-off.
IF the SPFL doesn't play ball for a second season then perhaps (and only perhaps) it is time to face up to them and come up with a viable alternative. In 12 months time there would be more WoS Premier clubs with a licence so by then there must be many more than 16 clubs who are strong enough to to form a Nat Conf - if it ever had to come to that. It would be the cream of the Highland League and of the ex Juniors and EoS. Wouldn't that be worth the risk?

Why should teams that have just joined the pyramid and currently in tier 6 get to jump the queue and go in at tier 5? Your mad if you think the current LL and HL clubs will accept that.

The LL is just as bad when it comes to relegating clubs. The likes of VoL have been circling the drain for years.

[FairWeatherFan]

22 minutes ago, Jack Burton said:

The LL is just as bad when it comes to relegating clubs. The likes of VoL have been circling the drain for years.

The LL only reached 16 clubs in 2016-17.

2016-17: first club relegated, and the very first licenced Tier 6 Champion promoted. Up until that point there had never been a licenced Tier 6 Champion.

2017-18: one club relegated. two licenced Tier 6 Champions contest the first and so far only LL Pyramid Play-off, leading to one club promoted.

2018-19: Selkirk go bust. LL confirm they will still relegate the bottom club. SFA mess about with licencing requirements days before inspections then drag their heels for months. All the while the LL hold out for Bonnyrigg to confirm their licence and allow for promotion and relegation.

2019-20: COVID. LL don't relegate anyone, but again hold out to allow for promotion from Tier 6.

2020-21: COVID. Were due to relegate on PPG with less than 50% played if a licenced Tier 6 Champion was declared. All Tier 6 leagues null and voided. Still a supposed possibilty of relegation if the SPFL2 happened to go in one very unlikely scenario. Especially with Brechin more likely to be Club 42 if it happens.

People look at the situation now with the WoSFL, the EoSFL, and the SoSFL and seem to apply it to years past.

[Thom & Gerry]

2 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

This isn't true. The SFA were going to set up their own North and South regional leagues. The Highland League said they would take on the role of the northern feeder themselves.

Yes but that was to try and keep the HL intact as they know it. HL clubs Brora included would be quite happy to go back to the old HL as they knew it with no promotion to SFL as long as they were allowed access to the Scottish Cup. They are always open to other teams in the north joining.

[Jack Burton]

The LL only reached 16 clubs in 2016-17.
2016-17: first club relegated, and the very first licenced Tier 6 Champion promoted. Up until that point there had never been a licenced Tier 6 Champion.
2017-18: one club relegated. two licenced Tier 6 Champions contest the first and so far only LL Pyramid Play-off, leading to one club promoted.
2018-19: Selkirk go bust. LL confirm they will still relegate the bottom club. SFA mess about with licencing requirements days before inspections then drag their heels for months. All the while the LL hold out for Bonnyrigg to confirm their licence and allow for promotion and relegation.
2019-20: COVID. LL don't relegate anyone, but again hold out to allow for promotion from Tier 6.
2020-21: COVID. Were due to relegate on PPG with less than 50% played if a licenced Tier 6 Champion was declared. All Tier 6 leagues null and voided. Still a supposed possibilty of relegation if the SPFL2 happened to go in one very unlikely scenario. Especially with Brechin more likely to be Club 42 if it happens.
People look at the situation now with the WoSFL, the EoSFL, and the SoSFL and seem to apply it to years past.

3 teams relegated and in the same time frame 2 clubs have been relegated from league 2.

You also have 3 feeder leagues to the LL sharing one automatic promotion place between them.

[Cyclizine]

58 minutes ago, Thom & Gerry said:

Yes but that was to try and keep the HL intact as they know it. HL clubs Brora included would be quite happy to go back to the old HL as they knew it with no promotion to SFL as long as they were allowed access to the Scottish Cup. They are always open to other teams in the north joining.

The HFL would have been decimated if the ten team regional leagues went ahead. Where else would clubs in the north have come from? Only a couple of clubs voted against joining the pyramid. There may have been some who would have preferred no change, but there's no evidence this is the case now.

[Dev]

2 hours ago, Jack Burton said:

Why should teams that have just joined the pyramid and currently in tier 6 get to jump the queue and go in at tier 5? Your mad if you think the current LL and HL clubs will accept that.

The LL is just as bad when it comes to relegating clubs. The likes of VoL have been circling the drain for years.

You have misread this thread.

8 clubs from both the current HL and LL would form the Nat Conf - not clubs coming directly from the WoS or EoS. However, with 8 clubs moving up from the current HL and the LL this would allow eight clubs from the current WoS/SoS/EoS to step up to the  HL and the LL to replace those which move to the the Nat Conf.

 

[Dev]

30 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

The HFL would have been decimated if the ten team regional leagues went ahead. Where else would clubs in the north have come from? Only a couple of clubs voted against joining the pyramid. There may have been some who would have preferred no change, but there's no evidence this is the case now.

I started this thread in order to get the idea put out there for a to and fro discussion. I am not saying this must happen at all but maybe if there's again no loyalty to the Pyramid from the SPFL the clubs at a lower level should start to consider their options.

There's no right or wrong it's see what people think.

I think that a 16 club National Conference would be a good standard compared to SPFL2 after only a few seasons. I doubt that the HL might be able to find 8 clubs which would go for it at present but it's not hard to see that is likely to change within a few seasons with some potentially ambitious clubs moving into the HL from the new Midland League. If there aren't 8 clubs up for it from the HL then there won't be a shortage of strong licenced clubs coming through from the LL zone to fill the spaces in the league.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

The pyramid is here to stay and things have moved really quickly in the past few years. If it evolves further in the future to a tier 5 then great but to be honest I'm happy for the pyramid to continue the way it is currently progressing but if a tier 5 is needed then so be it.  Is the HL and LL strong enough throughout their divisions, not really at the moment but as the years go on the lower standard clubs will be relegated and stronger more powerful clubs will move up from the WOSFL, EOSFLand maybe the SOSFL.  I would expect the same to happen with, hopefully expansion of the pyramid Highland League with the Midland League, North League and North Caledonian football league.

When the HL pyramid system is sorted then I expect things to calm down but the big real turning point is that the winners of the HL/LL playoff continuously win their playoffs against the SPFL2 club42 then there wouldn't be any real conviction in the SPFL moans that below SPFL2 is not strong enough

[Jack Burton]

You have misread this thread.
8 clubs from both the current HL and LL would form the Nat Conf - not clubs coming directly from the WoS or EoS. However, with 8 clubs moving up from the current HL and the LL this would allow eight clubs from the current WoS/SoS/EoS to step up to the  HL and the LL to replace those which move to the the Nat Conf.
 

Regardless, it's still an utterly shite idea. The travelling expenses would be horrendous with half your away games either up North or down South depending if your from the LL or HL.

[Spyro]

1 hour ago, Jack Burton said:

Regardless, it's still an utterly shite idea

Exactly! It still won’t stop him constantly droning on and trying to justify it though

[Thom & Gerry]

11 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

The HFL would have been decimated if the ten team regional leagues went ahead. Where else would clubs in the north have come from? Only a couple of clubs voted against joining the pyramid. There may have been some who would have preferred no change, but there's no evidence this is the case now.

Speak to the clubs supporters.

[Cyclizine]

1 hour ago, Thom & Gerry said:

Speak to the clubs supporters.

Funnily enough, I do.

[Gordon EF]

 

• L2 moves to 16 clubs
• No colts. Top 3 from HL and top 3 from LL move into SPFL.
• Two automatic relegation spots with HL and LL champions being promoted automatically.
• Pyramid in the North and South must commit to a minimum of one automatic promotion/relegation spot between all steps of the pyramid.
• All parts of the pyramid must commit to offering a place to any club from any part of the country a position at the bottom tier as long as minimum criteria are met.
• Every single league champion below tier 1 is awarded automatic promotion as long as the meet all non-playing criteria.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Gordon EF

[razamanaz]

All this because Brechin don't want to play in the Highland League if they lose?

[Dev]

17 hours ago, andrew21 said:

So to fix the problem of league 2 clubs fighting tooth and nail against any change to ensure they stay in SPFL, you propose a solution where they don't need to worry about relegation from the SPFL ?

In the short term as an equally strong Nat Conf with its' clubs regularly defeating SPFL 1 and 2 clubs in the SFA Cup would increase the embarrassment for the SPFL as it could no longer claim to have the top four divisions in the country. A strong Nat Conf would also be an attraction for clubs beneath the SPFL2 in any case as they are not given the chance to get into the SPFL2 in any case - so what's there to lose?

It helps to put pressure onto the SPFL to make meaningful change as it's done little so far - just a play-off for the bottom club to contend with - instead of two up two down.

That's one theory anyway. I don't think that there's too much to lose given the SPFL's track record on this and the gathering strength of the clubs below. 

[VodkaTap]

I just don't get this idea of a separate National conference setup at all.

To me it smacks of an upgraded Junior setup. It would be separate, distinctive, & strong  for sure - but could all too easily be ignored by the rest of the football community.

To claim it would eventually be stronger than the lower leagues of the SPFL  may well come true. I am sure we have all heard the self same claims - with some justification - from the former junior supporters.

The talk for long enough has all been about getting the football community together in one structure. The current ongoing changes are not without it's difficulties but they will happen. To suddenly change tack at the first sign of resistance to my mind would be foolish in the extreme.

To my mind the full integration will happen at whatever pace it needs to have - we just need to keep the faith !!

 

[SecretCEO]

If we're just throwing ideas around in a blue sky thinking pushing the envelope kind of way, then feeding into the hypothetical National non-league Conference of 16 teams I'd have 4 leagues - Highland (& Islands) League, Great North Eastern League (bounded by Spey and Tay), East of Scotland League, West of Scotland League (East and West separated along council boundaries, as recently agreed).

At least the top 2 of each feeder would qualify for a battle royale of knockout playoffs, to replace ? relegated teams from above (the best of whom could qualify for the playoffs too).

[stm]

4 hours ago, VodkaTap said:

I just don't get this idea of a separate National conference setup at all.

To me it smacks of an upgraded Junior setup. It would be separate, distinctive, & strong  for sure - but could all too easily be ignored by the rest of the football community.

To claim it would eventually be stronger than the lower leagues of the SPFL  may well come true. I am sure we have all heard the self same claims - with some justification - from the former junior supporters.

The talk for long enough has all been about getting the football community together in one structure. The current ongoing changes are not without it's difficulties but they will happen. To suddenly change tack at the first sign of resistance to my mind would be foolish in the extreme.

To my mind the full integration will happen at whatever pace it needs to have - we just need to keep the faith !!

 

Agreed.  Obviously on a forum for fans ideas anything will come your way and often does! 

This thread calls for a National Conference combining HL and LL with a trip from Galashiels to Brora potentially on the cards.  Click elsewhere and other threads will say that we can't have travels like that or clubs will be going bust! 

It's taken a long while to get a form of pyramid structure on the go and its full start has been halted by someone eating a bat in China back in 2019.  No doubt things will continue to go tits up along the way but we're laying a foundation that can be amended as development takes place.

[San Starko Rover]

Don’t see the point, the biggest argument the SPFL 2 teams have against opening up the bottom is that the LL in particular is too weak for teams dropping down. The LL are doing exactly the same to the WOS / SOS / EOS with one promotion spot. The irony is by doing this the LL are keeping the weak teams up and proving the SPFL 2s argument.

You don’t need a national conference, you need to open up the bottom of the LL to allow the strong tier 6 clubs to move up faster and the weak tier 5 clubs to come down. Once clubs like Pollok, Talbot, Linlithgow etc are making up the LL the argument is lost by the SPFL 2 teams. With the current 1 down from the LL this will take years, relegate 3 teams and get the best of the tier 6 up faster.