Time for a new National Conference League?

[Dev]

The SPFL doesn't like the reality of the Pyramid i.e. promotion and relegation up and down all of the Tiers.

Having done down its' reputation twelve months ago it seems likely that it's perceived as about to do the same thing again this time.

Maybe the time is approaching when the  HL and LL should go it alone and create a jointly run National Conference made up of the best HL and LL clubs. The HL and LL would be directly feeding into it from below as follows:

[1] The initial National Conference of 16 clubs would be made up of the top 8 clubs from both the HL and the LL.

[2] Unless the SPFL agrees to automatic promotion and relegation with two up and two down there would be no agreement to movement between the leagues for the time being. 

[3] The bottom two clubs in the Nat Conf would be automatically relegated to either the HL or the LL, depending on which side of the Tay Bridge line the ground is located. 

[4] The third bottom club in the Nat Conf would play-off to retain its' place against the winners of play-offs between the runners-up of the HL and LL leagues. [Edit]

With guaranteed mobility between the leagues beneath the National Conference would quickly fill up with the strongest 16 clubs currently "below" the SPFL. It seems likely that the Nat Conf would quickly become as strong in playing standards as SPFL2, with some clubs close to SPFL1 level in playing standard. 

Imagine if another 10 or more WoS/EoS/SoS clubs gain their club licences this summer they will play in the 2021/22 SFA Cup. As more leading clubs gain licences the numbers of SPFL clubs being knocked-out of the SFA cup each year by "lesser" clubs will increase until it becomes a complete embarrassment to Scottish football. 

This, in turn, will destroy the myth that the HL and LL (now their top clubs in the National Conference) aren't capable of providing a league suitable for relegated SPFL2 clubs.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Dev
Fcuk up

[invergowrie arab]

So the winners of the WoSL,EOSL,SoSL playoff get to skip the Lowland League?

[Spyro]

So basically creating a Division 5 (League 3) instead of working on the current 4 tier setup?

No, absolutely no point

Next....

Edited April 10, 2021 by Spyro

[Black Pennel]

Needs more work with the crayons, graphs, charts, maps, and spreadsheets before this proposal is passed.

4/10.

[Dev]

39 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

So the winners of the WoSL,EOSL,SoSL playoff get to skip the Lowland League?

Fcuk up. See edit.

[AlansHotBath]

Not sure what this would achieve though, with regards to the pyramid?

The issue is that clubs don't want to drop out of the SPFL. there are several reasons for this, a big one presumably being that getting back is incredibly difficult (as ourselves and Berwick have shown). Having an even stronger 5th tier isn't going to solve that issue.

[Dev]

36 minutes ago, Spyro said:

So basically creating a Division 5 (League 3) instead of working on the current 4 tier setup?

No, absolutely no point

Next....

How else will the HL/LL get a chance for two automatic promotion places in total to SPFL2? It would remove the excuse that the HL and LL don't have enough strength in depth for clubs relegated from SPFL2.

[Dev]

2 minutes ago, AlansHotBath said:

Not sure what this would achieve though, with regards to the pyramid?

The issue is that clubs don't want to drop out of the SPFL. there are several reasons for this, a big one presumably being that getting back is incredibly difficult (as ourselves and Berwick have shown). Having an even stronger 5th tier isn't going to solve that issue.

Clubs coming down from SPFL2 don't have any guarantees but that's what a pyramid does.

[FairWeatherFan]

15 minutes ago, Dev said:

How else will the HL/LL get a chance for two automatic promotion places in total to SPFL2? It would remove the excuse that the HL and LL don't have enough strength in depth for clubs relegated from SPFL2.

The only way the 5th Tier will get two automatic promotion places is if there is reconstruction further up the leagues.

Which is why a national 5th Tier is a bit redundant when the SPFL has shown some interest in expansion.

[Spyro]

28 minutes ago, Dev said:

How else will the HL/LL get a chance for two automatic promotion places in total to SPFL2? It would remove the excuse that the HL and LL don't have enough strength in depth for clubs relegated from SPFL2.

What FWF said.

Also the pyramid is still in its infancy. Tbh I’m surprised at how quickly things are moving, as much as the SPFL and SFA try to stall it.

Once everyone starts to find their level, the LL and HL will naturally become stronger and have a bigger voice. By then though I imagine the current top 4 tiers will have expanded slightly and their won’t be an appetite from the teams left at tier 5 to play nationally

[gaswork]

Aw of this pish and nonsense from the geeks with to much time on hands who take this all far to seriously for a game of fitba ffs

[invergowrie arab]

I'll stick my hand up and say it's not a terrible idea. 

Anyone who wants to play football at a national level should be able to. You won't get SPFL expansion as it means diluting the prize pot.

[Burnieman]

Wouldn't it just be easier to work with L2 clubs to expand to 16? (Preferably without Colts). Then you can go 2 up/down.

[Dev]

I agree with Burnie that a 16 club SPFL2 without the Colts teams would be the best solution provided it comes with automatic promotion and relegation to the HL and LL - whether two automatic or one plus a play-off.

IF the SPFL doesn't play ball for a second season then perhaps (and only perhaps) it is time to face up to them and come up with a viable alternative. In 12 months time there would be more WoS Premier clubs with a licence so by then there must be many more than 16 clubs who are strong enough to to form a Nat Conf - if it ever had to come to that. It would be the cream of the Highland League and of the ex Juniors and EoS. Wouldn't that be worth the risk?

[MAC THE KNIFE]

GO BACK TO TIER 4 DIVISION OF 20 CLUBS AGAIN WITH NO COLTS TEAMS & AUTOMATIC RELAGATION

[Cowden Cowboy]

On 10/04/2021 at 12:06, Dev said:

The SPFL doesn't like the reality of the Pyramid i.e. promotion and relegation up and down all of the Tiers.

Having done down its' reputation twelve months ago it seems likely that it's perceived as about to do the same thing again this time.

Maybe the time is approaching when the  HL and LL should go it alone and create a jointly run National Conference made up of the best HL and LL clubs. The HL and LL would be directly feeding into it from below as follows:

[1] The initial National Conference of 16 clubs would be made up of the top 8 clubs from both the HL and the LL.

[2] Unless the SPFL agrees to automatic promotion and relegation with two up and two down there would be no agreement to movement between the leagues for the time being. 

[3] The bottom two clubs in the Nat Conf would be automatically relegated to either the HL or the LL, depending on which side of the Tay Bridge line the ground is located. 

[4] The third bottom club in the Nat Conf would play-off to retain its' place against the winners of play-offs between the runners-up of the HL and LL leagues. [Edit]

With guaranteed mobility between the leagues beneath the National Conference would quickly fill up with the strongest 16 clubs currently "below" the SPFL. It seems likely that the Nat Conf would quickly become as strong in playing standards as SPFL2, with some clubs close to SPFL1 level in playing standard. 

Imagine if another 10 or more WoS/EoS/SoS clubs gain their club licences this summer they will play in the 2021/22 SFA Cup. As more leading clubs gain licences the numbers of SPFL clubs being knocked-out of the SFA cup each year by "lesser" clubs will increase until it becomes a complete embarrassment to Scottish football. 

This, in turn, will destroy the myth that the HL and LL (now their top clubs in the National Conference) aren't capable of providing a league suitable for relegated SPFL2 clubs.

The SPFL doesn’t like the reality of the pyramid is a sweeping and inaccurate statement.  A more accurate statement would be that many of the part time clubs don’t like the lack of any funding in the pyramid structure outwith the SPFL and would also like the pyramid outwith the SPFL to include all the relevant clubs and have the strongest clubs in it at the right level 

[Dev]

14 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

The SPFL doesn’t like the reality of the pyramid is a sweeping and inaccurate statement.  A more accurate statement would be that many of the part time clubs don’t like the lack of any funding in the pyramid structure outwith the SPFL and would also like the pyramid outwith the SPFL to include all the relevant clubs and have the strongest clubs in it at the right level 

Doesn't that confirm my point?

[Cowden Cowboy]

9 minutes ago, Dev said:

Doesn't that confirm my point?

No

[Thom & Gerry]

On 10/04/2021 at 18:03, Dev said:

I agree with Burnie that a 16 club SPFL2 without the Colts teams would be the best solution provided it comes with automatic promotion and relegation to the HL and LL - whether two automatic or one plus a play-off.

IF the SPFL doesn't play ball for a second season then perhaps (and only perhaps) it is time to face up to them and come up with a viable alternative. In 12 months time there would be more WoS Premier clubs with a licence so by then there must be many more than 16 clubs who are strong enough to to form a Nat Conf - if it ever had to come to that. It would be the cream of the Highland League and of the ex Juniors and EoS. Wouldn't that be worth the risk?

Where is the sponsorship going to come from for a new league? The SFA are not going to sanction a break away league therefore you won’t have access to the National competitions. The HL clubs would have next to zero interest in a Conference league. They are only in the Pyramid system as the SFA told them to take or leave it, ie exclusion from National competitions. There would be more support in the HL for regionalised lower divisions.

[Dev]

3 hours ago, Thom & Gerry said:

Where is the sponsorship going to come from for a new league? The SFA are not going to sanction a break away league therefore you won’t have access to the National competitions. The HL clubs would have next to zero interest in a Conference league. They are only in the Pyramid system as the SFA told them to take or leave it, ie exclusion from National competitions. There would be more support in the HL for regionalised lower divisions.

When the Pyramid was created the Scottish League/SPFL clubs wanted just one league at Tier 5. They are still moaning about the HL and the LL not having enough strength in depth - so give them what they wanted. How would they argue against what they want?

The division would be the joint top division of the H and L Leagues. The HL and LL divisions would still be there and it would give quick promotion to the HL and the LL for16 current Tier 6 clubs. It wouldn't be a break away league. No-one knows the potential sponsorship position and no-one will unless this got off the ground in the first place.

You can be as negative as you like but neither you or I can do anything but guess what may happen. Maybe try to make it happen? Either it  happens and works or it doesn't.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Dev
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