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EoS Structure for 2021/22


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1 hour ago, Dev said:

For the less competitive clubs next season needs to be last one where they are in for some mismatches. How that's done is open to different ideas. 

There's always going to be mismatches at that level and we're not talking about 2018-19 here when Premier Division teams were in with everyone. They are not as extreme as some people like to make out and a whole lot flukier to predict. Take last season when Glenrothes got hammered 8-1 against mid table St Andrews United. Only for Glenrothes to bounce back with a win against Leith Athletic who were topping their Conference at the time.

Using the current Conferences with applicants below is fair enough it it can be made to work. Also my preference since clubs put a lot into 2020-21 to try and make it work. The only concern I have is scheduling. Competitiveness solves itself in 2022-23 by whatever divisions get formed.

 

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1 hour ago, the tin man said:

The only really mismatch a saw was any1 playing Eyemouth was a shame to see the young laddies struggle. Plenty effort from them though. Do they have a manager now. The rest of the conferences seemed pretty competitive

Tweedmouth were averaging 5 goals against per game, and a few others were averaging 3 or more against per game. It's not really extreme and from what I know of Tweedmouth I imagine they'll improve, and we can't know if Covid played a role in the relativeness weakness of some clubs. But it maybe suggests P-1-2-3 or P-1-2-2xregions is the way to go in future.

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Tweedmouth basically struggle in whatever division they're in. Even before the mass expansion of 2018. Last season actually saw some progress for them by their standards. Conferences in 2021-22 they'll be at the bottom. Second Division or Third Division in 2022-23 they'll be at the bottom.

image.png.4eb431bacf9cfe786c674f56c6eb5ac9.png

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6 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Tweedmouth basically struggle in whatever division they're in. Even before the mass expansion of 2018. Last season actually saw some progress for them by their standards. Conferences in 2021-22 they'll be at the bottom. Second Division or Third Division in 2022-23 they'll be at the bottom.

image.png.4eb431bacf9cfe786c674f56c6eb5ac9.png

I hope they stick with it and find their feet, because they're building an impressive wee set-up there. 

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46 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Tweedmouth basically struggle in whatever division they're in. Even before the mass expansion of 2018. Last season actually saw some progress for them by their standards. Conferences in 2021-22 they'll be at the bottom. Second Division or Third Division in 2022-23 they'll be at the bottom.

image.png.4eb431bacf9cfe786c674f56c6eb5ac9.png

Not sure how you can say that. Their four wins in 19/20 came against Hawick x2, Peebles, Craigroyston (draws against Dalkeith, Glenrothes, LTHV, Ormiston) - mostly teams which would be with them in a Third Division so there's a good chance they will be off the bottom. 

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17 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Not sure how you can say that. Their four wins in 19/20 came against Hawick x2, Peebles, Craigroyston (draws against Dalkeith, Glenrothes, LTHV, Ormiston) - mostly teams which would be with them in a Third Division so there's a good chance they will be off the bottom. 

'at the bottom' and 'bottom' are two different things. How would you describe 10th out of 12 places for instance? 

Edited by FairWeatherFan
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On 15/04/2021 at 08:07, the tin man said:

The only really mismatch a saw was any1 playing Eyemouth was a shame to see the young laddies struggle. Plenty effort from them though. Do they have a manager now. The rest of the conferences seemed pretty competitive

There’s little appetite here for EOS football imho, hopefully a decision will be reached soon on their future 

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Well, let's see if it actually happens as most would agree to them being banned. As the EPL, UEFA and FIFA are suggesting will happen. Anyway, nothing to do with the EoS...

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There’s little appetite here for EOS football imho, hopefully a decision will be reached soon on their future 
Such a shame lot of new ams popping up down there aswell. Langlea weren't about when a saw border ams watching Pencaitland neither Harrow or Highfield they must dilute Eyemouth attempts at getting a decent calibre.good on the 1s that test themselves
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On 15/04/2021 at 08:07, the tin man said:

The only really mismatch a saw was any1 playing Eyemouth was a shame to see the young laddies struggle. Plenty effort from them though. Do they have a manager now. The rest of the conferences seemed pretty competitive

Tweedmouth were also on the wrong side of few doings - but I do remember them beating a very decent team once.

Great enthusiasm for the game. And actually had not a bad goalie. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thought I would take a look at how things could pan out if the EOS went with three conferences again, rather than a separate West Lothian division at tier 8 this season. (promotion/relegation spots are just a guess of course)

For the conferences I ranked the clubs by 2019-20 PPG and used a snake split. Then I used the roonba rankings (yeah not scientific but they are good enough) to try and predict where the new clubs will finish, so we can see how this would affect the linear divisions for the following season.

IMO this would be a good compromise for everyone - current EOS clubs get a chance to compete for the First Division that they missed out on, new clubs get to play in amongst everyone else and have a good chance of getting to the Second Division, and the clubs at the bottom end have a more balanced league to play in. 

The only real downside is the new clubs finishing in the top 4/5 but not getting that place making it slightly confusing?

  Conference A 2021-22     Conference B 2021-22     Conference C 2021-22
1 Leith Athletic Promoted   1 Kinnoull Promoted   1 Livingston United Second
2 Haddington Athletic First   2 Armadale Thistle Second   2 Whitburn Juniors Second
3 Thornton Hibs First   3 Pumpherston Juniors Second   3 Dunipace First
4 Luncarty First   4 Edinburgh United First   4 Oakley United First
5 Fauldhouse United Second   5 Preston Athletic First   5 Glenrothes First
6 Heriot-Watt University First   6 Edinburgh South First   6 Rosyth First
7 Burntisland Shipyard Second   7 Dalkeith Thistle First   7 Stoneyburn Juniors Second
8 Kennoway Star Hearts Second   8 Newburgh Second   8 St Andrews United Second
9 Coldstream Second   9 Syngenta Second   9 Easthouses Lily MW Third
10 Arniston Rangers Second   10 Bathgate Thistle Second   10 Boness Athletic Third
11 Kirkcaldy and Dysart Third   11 Stirling Uni reserves Third   11 Craigroyston Third
12 Hawick RAU Third   12 Lochore Welfare Third   12 Ormiston Third
13 Lochgelly Albert Third   13 Peebles Rovers Third   13 West Calder United Third
14 Edinburgh College Third   14 Tweedmouth Rangers Third   14 Eyemouth United Third
                     
  First Division - tier 7 2022-23     Second Division - tier 8  2022-23     Third Division - tier 9 2022-23
1 Crossgates Primrose Promoted   1 Fauldhouse United Promoted   1 Easthouses Lily MW Promoted
2 Whitehill Welfare Promoted   2 Armadale Thistle Promoted   2 Kirkcaldy and Dysart Promoted
3 Blackburn United Play-off?   3 Livingston United Promoted?   3 Stirling Uni reserves Promoted?
4 Inverkeithing HS     4 Burntisland Shipyard     4 Boness Athletic  
5 Haddington Athletic     5 Pumpherston Juniors     5 Hawick RAU  
6 Edinburgh United     6 Whitburn Juniors     6 Lochore Welfare  
7 Dunipace     7 Kennoway Star Hearts     7 Craigroyston  
8 Thornton Hibs     8 Newburgh     8 Lochgelly Albert  
9 Preston Athletic     9 Stoneyburn Juniors     9 Peebles Rovers  
10 Oakley United     10 Coldstream     10 Ormiston  
11 Luncarty     11 Syngenta     11 Edinburgh College  
12 Edinburgh South     12 St Andrews United Relegated?   12 Tweedmouth Rangers  
13 Glenrothes     13 Arniston Rangers Relegated   13 West Calder United  
14 Heriot-Watt University Relegated?   14 Bathgate Thistle Relegated   14 Eyemouth United  
15 Dalkeith Thistle Relegated     (14/14 depends on any       + new clubs  
16 Rosyth Relegated     imbalance from the LL)          
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18 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Thought I would take a look at how things could pan out if the EOS went with three conferences again, rather than a separate West Lothian division at tier 8 this season. (promotion/relegation spots are just a guess of course)

For the conferences I ranked the clubs by 2019-20 PPG and used a snake split. Then I used the roonba rankings (yeah not scientific but they are good enough) to try and predict where the new clubs will finish, so we can see how this would affect the linear divisions for the following season.

IMO this would be a good compromise for everyone - current EOS clubs get a chance to compete for the First Division that they missed out on, new clubs get to play in amongst everyone else and have a good chance of getting to the Second Division, and the clubs at the bottom end have a more balanced league to play in. 

The only real downside is the new clubs finishing in the top 4/5 but not getting that place making it slightly confusing?

 

  Conference A 2021-22     Conference B 2021-22     Conference C 2021-22
1 Leith Athletic Promoted   1 Kinnoull Promoted   1 Livingston United Second
2 Haddington Athletic First   2 Armadale Thistle Second   2 Whitburn Juniors Second
3 Thornton Hibs First   3 Pumpherston Juniors Second   3 Dunipace First
4 Luncarty First   4 Edinburgh United First   4 Oakley United First
5 Fauldhouse United Second   5 Preston Athletic First   5 Glenrothes First
6 Heriot-Watt University First   6 Edinburgh South First   6 Rosyth First
7 Burntisland Shipyard Second   7 Dalkeith Thistle First   7 Stoneyburn Juniors Second
8 Kennoway Star Hearts Second   8 Newburgh Second   8 St Andrews United Second
9 Coldstream Second   9 Syngenta Second   9 Easthouses Lily MW Third
10 Arniston Rangers Second   10 Bathgate Thistle Second   10 Boness Athletic Third
11 Kirkcaldy and Dysart Third   11 Stirling Uni reserves Third   11 Craigroyston Third
12 Hawick RAU Third   12 Lochore Welfare Third   12 Ormiston Third
13 Lochgelly Albert Third   13 Peebles Rovers Third   13 West Calder United Third
14 Edinburgh College Third   14 Tweedmouth Rangers Third   14 Eyemouth United Third
                     
  First Division - tier 7 2022-23     Second Division - tier 8  2022-23     Third Division - tier 9 2022-23
1 Crossgates Primrose Promoted   1 Fauldhouse United Promoted   1 Easthouses Lily MW Promoted
2 Whitehill Welfare Promoted   2 Armadale Thistle Promoted   2 Kirkcaldy and Dysart Promoted
3 Blackburn United Play-off?   3 Livingston United Promoted?   3 Stirling Uni reserves Promoted?
4 Inverkeithing HS     4 Burntisland Shipyard     4 Boness Athletic  
5 Haddington Athletic     5 Pumpherston Juniors     5 Hawick RAU  
6 Edinburgh United     6 Whitburn Juniors     6 Lochore Welfare  
7 Dunipace     7 Kennoway Star Hearts     7 Craigroyston  
8 Thornton Hibs     8 Newburgh     8 Lochgelly Albert  
9 Preston Athletic     9 Stoneyburn Juniors     9 Peebles Rovers  
10 Oakley United     10 Coldstream     10 Ormiston  
11 Luncarty     11 Syngenta     11 Edinburgh College  
12 Edinburgh South     12 St Andrews United Relegated?   12 Tweedmouth Rangers  
13 Glenrothes     13 Arniston Rangers Relegated   13 West Calder United  
14 Heriot-Watt University Relegated?   14 Bathgate Thistle Relegated   14 Eyemouth United  
15 Dalkeith Thistle Relegated     (14/14 depends on any       + new clubs  
16 Rosyth Relegated     imbalance from the LL)          

 

Looks a decent way of doing it, but as you say it could get messy/confusing.  A few of the new WL clubs are more than capable of occupying top positions in the Conferences maybe leading to some clubs getting a First Division place by finishing mid-table?

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3 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Considering all the sporting integrity and merit mentions that have gone flying the past year, i'm not sure how popular it would be in having teams denied spots they've earned on the pitch.

Hence why all new clubs going into a level below the Conferences seems to be the preferred option from what I hear, we'll see.

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7 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Looks a decent way of doing it, but as you say it could get messy/confusing.  A few of the new WL clubs are more than capable of occupying top positions in the Conferences maybe leading to some clubs getting a First Division place by finishing mid-table?

Not much difference to this season though, where the top 7 out of 15/16 were going to the First Division.

It can be avoided by removing the restrictions on the WL clubs qualifying for the First Division, but that would be up to the current members as they might to lose out?

Think it has to be weighed up against the alternative - which is a 30/28 games versus 20 in tier 8 and an unbalanced Third Division for 2022-23 where Ormiston, Tweedmouth, Eyemouth will be in with most of the new clubs?

Would be good to know exactly what the EOS proposal is for next season, so that a similar spreadsheet can be worked out to compare.

2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Considering all the sporting integrity and merit mentions that have gone flying the past year, i'm not sure how popular it would be in having teams denied spots they've earned on the pitch.

But that also applies to the top 7 teams who were denied a chance to qualify for the 2021-22 First Division, which we'd already have if it wasn't for Covid in January. This is the middle ground solution IMO.

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