EoS Structure for 2021/22

[Cornishman]

10 hours ago, Crossbar said:

Here’s a simple proposal. It’s a straight repeat of this null and void season, removing Eyemouth and adding in the 11 new clubs in the ‘Third Division’. The Third Division champions get a ‘double promotion´ to the First Division for 2022/23 as an extra incentive for the newcomers. But no team is unfairly treated. Plenty to play for for everyone. (*Obviously detailed additional scenarios would need to be added in case numbers in the Premier go up or down as a consequence of promotion to and relegation from LL but this will always be needed in the pyramid).

I like this idea in every detail, excepting that I'd prefer to see at least two, if not three 'double promotions' to your 2022/23 First Division. The eleven newbies should at very least be considered to be Tier-7½.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Cornishman

[Burnieman]

22 hours ago, Crossbar said:

Here’s a simple proposal. It’s a straight repeat of this null and void season, removing Eyemouth and adding in the 11 new clubs in the ‘Third Division’. The Third Division champions get a ‘double promotion´ to the First Division for 2022/23 as an extra incentive for the newcomers. But no team is unfairly treated. Plenty to play for for everyone. (*Obviously detailed additional scenarios would need to be added in case numbers in the Premier go up or down as a consequence of promotion to and relegation from LL but this will always be needed in the pyramid).



2021/22 (playing it again)
18 Prem Division
16 First Div Con A + 14 First Div Con B (Eyemouth resigned)
11 Third Division (the new clubs)

2022/23 (aiming for)
16 Premier Division
16 First Division
16 Second Division
11 Third Division (leaves room for new members to join or an extra club coming down the from LL which would have a knock-on effect)

2021/22 how it works
18 Premier Division (34 matches)
*Assuming one up to and one down from LL
*bottom 4 relegated to First Div

16 First Division Con A (30 matches)
*champions promoted to Premier Div
*P2-P7 to First Division
*P8-P13 to Second Division
*P14-P16 relegated to Third Division

14 First Division Con B (26 matches)
*champions promoted to Premier Division
*P2-P6 to First Division
*P7 to P12 to Second Division
*P13-P14 relegated to Third Division

11 Third Division (26 matches)
[20 matches then split into top 4 and bottom 7. Top four play each other home and away again to equal 26 matches. Bottom 7 play each other else once more, thus 3 home and 3 away games, to also equal 26 matches]

*champions promoted to First Division
*P2 to P4 promoted to Second Division
*P5 (ie top of bottom 7 after split) promoted to Second Division
*P6 to P11 remain in Third Division

The choice for clubs are;

The 11 new clubs form a division below the existing Conferences, the top 2 earn promotion to the new Second Division (tier 8), the rest form a Third Division (tier 9) with any new clubs. Existing Conference clubs (tier 7), cannot be relegated to the Third Division (tier 9)

or

The 11 new clubs mix in at tier 7 and three Conferences are formed.  Problem with that is clubs at tier 7 can fall to tier 9 the following season in the new structure, that may not be very popular amongst Conference clubs.

 

 

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

The choice for clubs are;

The 11 new clubs form a division below the existing Conferences, the top 2 earn promotion to the new Second Division (tier 8), the rest form a Third Division (tier 9) with any new clubs. Existing Conference clubs (tier 7), cannot be relegated to the Third Division (tier 9)

So if there's no new applicants the Third Division is stuck on 9 teams?

[Burnieman]

So if there's no new applicants the Third Division is stuck on 9 teams?

Seems that way, maybe could recruit some Colt teams to make up the numbers....

[FairWeatherFan]

12 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

13 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

So if there's no new applicants the Third Division is stuck on 9 teams?

Seems that way, maybe could recruit some Colt teams to make up the numbers....

The only way I can think they're leaving it like that is expecting Letham and Edinburgh City to come back in a year's time. At the very least.

EDIT: Any suggestion of tweaking the Conferences so they're 15-15 if that proposal goes ahead? With Eyemouth United being a returning club i'd guess seeding wise Edinburgh South would be the one to go to Conference B.

Edited May 9, 2021 by FairWeatherFan

[Burnieman]

23 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The only way I can think they're leaving it like that is expecting Letham and Edinburgh City to come back in a year's time. At the very least.

EDIT: Any suggestion of tweaking the Conferences so they're 15-15 if that proposal goes ahead? With Eyemouth United being a returning club i'd guess seeding wise Edinburgh South would be the one to go to Conference B.

One club will move between Conferences to even it up 15/15  (if the vote goes with new clubs in level below)

Edited May 9, 2021 by Burnieman

[FairWeatherFan]

10 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

One club will move between Conferences to even it up 15/15  (if the vote goes with new clubs in level below)

Double checking the numbers. Assuming the aim is to get back to 16 top divisions in 2022-23 and there's no net gain/loss from the LL Play-off, then you'd be looking at 16-16-18-9*.

Between these two options I think I would prefer the all in approach to Conferences next year just to get it over and done with. Rather than the further reshuffle and hope of new applicants.

 

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, Burnieman said:

The choice for clubs are;

The 11 new clubs form a division below the existing Conferences, the top 2 earn promotion to the new Second Division (tier 8), the rest form a Third Division (tier 9) with any new clubs. Existing Conference clubs (tier 7), cannot be relegated to the Third Division (tier 9)

or

The 11 new clubs mix in at tier 7 and three Conferences are formed.  Problem with that is clubs at tier 7 can fall to tier 9 the following season in the new structure, that may not be very popular amongst Conference clubs.

Those two seem like the worst versions of each option! I'd have thought that the plan is to go 16 Premier, 16 First, then split whatever is left (14/13)? That means some existing clubs have to drop down to tier 9. Otherwise you have 16-16-18-9 as mentioned.

With option 1 I'd make it top 3 or 4 earn promotion so the Third Division isn't as mismatched.

And the whole point of the option 2 is to quickly create linear leagues - if clubs aren't good enough then sorry they need to fall down to tier 9. Though surely there's not many clubs (if any) who were top 7 this season that would likely fall down to tier 9 for 2022-23?

[Pyramidic]

Where is Hibeejeebee these days? The whole issue needs some common sense and fairness that is the norm and standard for Hibeejeebee.

[Burnieman]

Those two seem like the worst versions of each option! I'd have thought that the plan is to go 16 Premier, 16 First, then split whatever is left (14/13)? That means some existing clubs have to drop down to tier 9. Otherwise you have 16-16-18-9 as mentioned.
With option 1 I'd make it top 3 or 4 earn promotion so the Third Division isn't as mismatched.
And the whole point of the option 2 is to quickly create linear leagues - if clubs aren't good enough then sorry they need to fall down to tier 9. Though surely there's not many clubs (if any) who were top 7 this season that would likely fall down to tier 9 for 2022-23?

It'll be upto the clubs to decide what they prefer next season. If I was a betting man I'd say the option which involves existing members potentially dropping 2 tiers isn't going to be popular, but we'll see. Personally not too fussed either way, both options have their merits.

[Ginaro]

8 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

1 hour ago, Ginaro said:

Those two seem like the worst versions of each option! I'd have thought that the plan is to go 16 Premier, 16 First, then split whatever is left (14/13)? That means some existing clubs have to drop down to tier 9. Otherwise you have 16-16-18-9 as mentioned.
With option 1 I'd make it top 3 or 4 earn promotion so the Third Division isn't as mismatched.
And the whole point of the option 2 is to quickly create linear leagues - if clubs aren't good enough then sorry they need to fall down to tier 9. Though surely there's not many clubs (if any) who were top 7 this season that would likely fall down to tier 9 for 2022-23?

It'll be upto the clubs to decide what they prefer next season. If I was a betting man I'd say the option which involves existing members potentially dropping 2 tiers isn't going to be popular, but we'll see. Personally not too fussed either way, both options have their merits.

But option 1 also involves a Second Division with 18+ teams for the following season, right?

[Burnieman]

But option 1 also involves a Second Division with 18+ teams for the following season, right?

Seems to aye, 16-16-18-9, I assume that is to prevent clubs at tier 7 currently, falling to tier 9 in one season.

[FairWeatherFan]

16-16-18-9* with no net loss or gain from the LL Play-off. If that's staying just one spot it's entirely possible the EoSFL will gain a team from above.

[stulch]

They really should have at least one relegation place from each conference. There's at least a of couple of sides who's natural place is the third division and delaying them getting there won't do them any favours like it hasn't Eyemouth United. I think there should be four up and two down to the third from each conference but there are now just those two options...

It also makes you think they are 100% confidence they'll get a number of applicant clubs come the end of March 2022. Could it also include the relaximg of the application standards for division 3 making them confident?

[Burnieman]

They really should have at least one relegation place from each conference. There's at least a of couple of sides who's natural place is the third division and delaying them getting there won't do them any favours like it hasn't Eyemouth United. I think there should be four up and two down to the third from each conference but there are now just those two options...

It also makes you think they are 100% confidence they'll get a number of applicant clubs come the end of March 2022. Could it also include the relaximg of the application standards for division 3 making them confident?

I think relegating the bottom side in both Conferences to the Third Division, making it 16-16-16-11 is reasonable.

[LongTimeLurker]

Hopefully they will do the three tier 7 conferences option so clubs find their natural level as quickly as possible.

[Ginaro]

Just now, Burnieman said:

10 hours ago, stulch said:

They really should have at least one relegation place from each conference. There's at least a of couple of sides who's natural place is the third division and delaying them getting there won't do them any favours like it hasn't Eyemouth United. I think there should be four up and two down to the third from each conference but there are now just those two options...

It also makes you think they are 100% confidence they'll get a number of applicant clubs come the end of March 2022. Could it also include the relaximg of the application standards for division 3 making them confident?

I think relegating the bottom side in both Conferences to the Third Division, making it 16-16-16-11 is reasonable.

That's even worse than no relegation!  You'd have Tweedmouth and Hawick for example playing the West Lothian clubs (bar the two that would be promoted).

That's no good for anyone in terms of travel or competitive fixtures. You need to get at least 3 or 4 of the new clubs promoted out of tier 8 to balance the Third Division.

[Burnieman]

16 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

That's even worse than no relegation!  You'd have Tweedmouth and Hawick for example playing the West Lothian clubs (bar the two that would be promoted).

That's no good for anyone in terms of travel or competitive fixtures. You need to get at least 3 or 4 of the new clubs promoted out of tier 8 to balance the Third Division.

You over estimate the ability of some of the new clubs, but it's not going to happen though so it's all irrelevant really.  There's two choices, we'll see how it goes.

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, Burnieman said:

You over estimate the ability of some of the new clubs, but it's not going to happen though so it's all irrelevant really.  There's two choices, we'll see how it goes.

Curious where you'd rank the new clubs then. They've probably slipped back slightly since, but in 19/20 you had Livi Utd, Pumpherston, Whitburn, Armadale, Fauldhouse alongside Thornton and above Kennoway. Those two were top half in the Conferences last season. 

[Dev]

The existing EoS  clubs will no longer have the advantage over the ex East Juniors when it comes to access to players so some of the new clubs, which are recruiting heavily, could be unexpectedly strong when compared to this season's Conference clubs. Most would have been preparing all season for their new League i.e. in terms of  ground up-grades and works. It seems unlikely that they would have overlooked the strengthening of playing side. Still, thankfully, we shall see before too long if the three Conferences/Sort out in one season gets the approval of the EoS clubs. They'll make interesting opponents in Cup Draws, maybe with a point to prove?

Edited May 10, 2021 by Dev
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