Pre euros friendlies

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, velo army said:

isn't playing at a sensitive time in his development (because he isn't deemed good enough...

... for a team in the CL Quarters, with 3 highly experienced Internationals in front of him in the pecking order.

Surely it's all relative? Gilmour being involved with Chelseas first team is a higher level than the vast majority of Scottish players will ever reach.

They're a ruthless club so if he was shite he wouldn't even be in the frame at all.

[DA Baracus]

2 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Being considered for the Scotland team, as you put it, is not a lifetime achievement award, it's about picking the best players. Billy Gilmour is a fantastically talented footballer, he doesn't need to be playing regular football for Chelsea for people to know that. If he's good enough, then he's good enough - whether or not he plays 5 or 6 games between now and the end of the season won't change that. Sometimes, when you have a player of clear and exceptional talent you have to gamble on them - this isn't a guy breaking through at Celtic or West Ham or something, it's a guy being widely considered to be one of the best in the world.

Your argument has no logical basis, that's why I'm having to establish exactly what parameters would permit you to think someone is good enough to play for Scotland. Surely even if they've played 300 games at club level we don't know if they'll be able to play for Scotland because they won't ever have played for Scotland before? At some point you have to take the plunge and pick them based on the rest of the evidence you have available to you.

Well yes actually, someone does need to be playing regularly to prove that they are consistently good enough. Otherwise how would anyone know?

There's nothing illogical about that.

What is the evidence available to Clarke that he is good enough to be in the Scotland team? That he played really well in a couple of games? Promising, but not enough to judge someone on.

Again, it is a very simple concept. There simply isn't enough to show that Gilmour is good enough yet, because he had not had the opportunity to show it on a consistent basis. And, again, I hope that changes and that he does get games, shows he is as good as folk hope and brings that to Scotland.

Are you being purposely obtuse here?

[velo army]

Bloody hell. Right, let me just be crystal clear here before we end up weighed down by straw men.

What I was arguing against was the idea that it's somehow ridiculous to not call Gilmour up, and the specific argument within that that I was targeting was that we should ignore his lack of game time this season and focus on the fact that he had a great game a couple of seasons back against Liverpool. 

For qualifiers, sure, call him up, but this is too important a tournament to try a guy out who isn't playing in football matches. He may play like he did against Liverpool, or the game could totally pass him by and Clarke needs to sub him at half time. We have three matches, realistically, and I think that we need to be playing the players we know can do a job in this system, not players who have merely been training with good players (and not in a 3-5-2).

 

[velo army]

1 hour ago, Baptiste Bourgeois said:

Just checked and the "unproven, inexperienced" Gilmour has already started games and played against McTominay, Fred, Fabinho, Andre Gomes, Siggurdson, Ndidi, Tielemens, McArthur, Milovojevic, Victor Claesson(44 caps for Sweden), Tonny Vilhena(15 caps for Holland), and came off the bench in games featuring De Bruyne x2, Rodri x2, Gundogan, Rakitic, Fernandinho and Doucoure. 

 

Still though, better off with the likes of Graeme Shinnie's proven experience against *checks notes* "Luton Town" and "Wycombe Wanderers Football Club.

Genius mate. This is precisely what I'm after but was too afraid to say.

Thanks for clarifying my position 

[accies1874]

... for a team in the CL Quarters, with 3 highly experienced Internationals in front of him in the pecking order.
Surely it's all relative? Gilmour being involved with Chelseas first team is a higher level than the vast majority of Scottish players will ever reach.
They're a ruthless club so if he was shite he wouldn't even be in the frame at all.

Tbf that may be the case this time next year...

He, along with Patterson, is the obvious choice to come in after the Euros, but I can't see Clarke doing so unless he's playing games (I wonder how regular they'd have to be to be considered). I think he's more than capable to play a hell of a lot more games for Chelsea than he currently is and would start for most teams in the PL, however if next year's just a little better than this season (say the same game time as he was getting under Lampard) then I'd be worried that it's another year of not being involved with the Scotland first team.

It's not inconceivable that Chelsea bomb him out because Tuchel doesn't like him and then he ends up at another top club in the near future.

[Boot Agent]

18 minutes ago, Baptiste Bourgeois said:

Well yes, it is precisely what you're after.

 

If you want "proven experience", and  players who we "know can do a job in this system", then your left with f**k all considering Shinnie, Kevin Mcdonald, Cairney, McGeough, Craig Bryson and Barry Bannan are the only active capped centre-midfielders who have played for us in the past 5 years 

So if iys not Shinnie you want called up to replace Ryan Jack, give us a good laugh and tell us what other of those bums is your pick. 

Are you suggesting he picks his bum?

[velo army]

1 hour ago, Boot Agent said:

Are you suggesting he picks his bum?

Has he got fuckin CCTV in my house or something?

 

 

 

 

[latapythelegend]

13 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

... for a team in the CL Quarters, with 3 highly experienced Internationals in front of him in the pecking order.

Surely it's all relative? Gilmour being involved with Chelseas first team is a higher level than the vast majority of Scottish players will ever reach.

They're a ruthless club so if he was shite he wouldn't even be in the frame at all.

Ruthless? They give guys ridiculous contracts and loan them out about the place for the sake of it. Some guys are happy at Chelsea doing f**k all. Its an easy wage.

FWIW, I would include him for the friendlies and see how he goes.

[Gordopolis]

When's the squad for this likely to be announced?
Normal squads are usually announced the Tues or Weds the week before the games (meaning roughly 25th May, just over a fortnight away) but I'm thinking this might be a bit earlier.
Also hoping it will be a 30-ish man provisional squad that will give Gilmour, Turnbull, Gauld, Feruz* etc a fighting chance of getting in.

It's all beginning to feel a bit real now!

*[emoji6]

[edinabear]

On 08/05/2021 at 23:35, Gordopolis said:

When's the squad for this likely to be announced?
Normal squads are usually announced the Tues or Weds the week before the games (meaning roughly 25th May, just over a fortnight away) but I'm thinking this might be a bit earlier.
Also hoping it will be a 30-ish man provisional squad that will give Gilmour, Turnbull, Gauld, Feruz* etc a fighting chance of getting in.

It's all beginning to feel a bit real now!

*




 

Read middle of May but can't find an exact date. Will be very interesting 

[Quentin Taranbino]

Squad to be named next week

[charger29]

Presumably this will just be the Euro squad assuming there are no further injuries, right?

[craigkillie]

I would hope he might call up something like 30 players initially before whittling it down a bit, that would give him the chance to assess a couple of the guys he might be on the fence about. It depends if he already has his 26 in mind - if he does it's probably not worth wasting folk's time.

[charger29]

I would hope he might call up something like 30 players initially before whittling it down a bit, that would give him the chance to assess a couple of the guys he might be on the fence about. It depends if he already has his 26 in mind - if he does it's probably not worth wasting folk's time.

It'd be a bit shit getting called up and travelling to the training camp only for it to be announced the day before the Netherlands game that you're not in the Euro squad.

[craigkillie]

It's probably still better than simply not getting called up at all. Most countries do it.

[HalfCutNinja]

2 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

It's probably still better than simply not getting called up at all. Most countries do it.

You would always have something like half a dozen on a reserve list in case of injuries. So if its a 26 man squad would expect 30-32 to get called up for the friendlies and 4-6 to drop out.

[charger29]

10 minutes ago, HalfCutNinja said:

You would always have something like half a dozen on a reserve list in case of injuries. So if its a 26 man squad would expect 30-32 to get called up for the friendlies and 4-6 to drop out.

It make more sense when considering injuries and getting reserve players involved.

It's a shame there wasn't time to squeeze a game in before squad announcement though.

[Mr Tourette]

Just watched Gilmour play the first half against Arsenal tonight and he looks streets ahead of anything we have in our present squad. There is no doubt in my mind that he is good enough to play in the Euros

[Chicken Wing]

Anyone thinking about travelling to Faro for the Netherlands game? Booked flights today for £46 return. I'm led to believe that there may be a small limited number of fans able to attend (although definitely not Scotland fans as this would have been publicised).

Portugal being in the UK's "green" list is obviously a major factor - as is 2 days in the sun.

[Stellaboz]

No but we've got a hotel reservation jn Luxumbourg for the start of June...