Pre euros friendlies

[accies1874]

I don't think we'll see any new players for the Euros.

From the last squad, Cooper will definitely come in, Forrest probably and I sadly think one of Burke or Paterson will too. Griffiths might also have a chance.

[craigkillie]

37 minutes ago, accies1874 said:

I don't think we'll see any new players for the Euros.

From the last squad, Cooper will definitely come in, Forrest probably and I sadly think one of Burke or Paterson will too. Griffiths might also have a chance.

The last squad had 26 in it, so if you're bringing guys in there will also need to be some going out. Jack and probably McBurnie through injury, I guess. Considine too surely with Cooper coming in.

[accies1874]

The last squad had 26 in it, so if you're bringing guys in there will also need to be some going out. Jack and probably McBurnie through injury, I guess. Considine too surely with Cooper coming in.

Cooper for Considine or Hendry, Forrest and Paterson/Burke for McBurnie and Taylor and Griffiths for Nisbet. Gallagher or McKenna could make way too as we don't need three of the big b*****d types for one position.

Taylor's the interesting one though as the last break made me think that we'd be better with Tierney at CB and Taylor at WB than Tierney at WB and Cooper at CB. I also think that in certain games - probably not for the Euros though - we could get away with playing Fraser at LWB as long as Tierney's at LCB.

ETA: Obviously all as a backup if Robertson got injured.

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

5 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Most of our squads for the qualifiers are 26 or 27 so it doesn't necessarily mean a massive influx of fresh blood or anything like that.

Ordinarily, a squad called up prior to a tournament has an extra three or so players.

We’ve had consistent squads, but not sure there are 30 we’ve used in the last year without including Porteous, brother McGinn, and McCrorie...

With the loss of Jack and McBurnie, we’re already at 24(or 23?) from the last squad, so there’s space...

Edited April 27, 2021 by HuttonDressedAsLahm

[DA Baracus]

Gilmour won't be anywhere near the Scotland team until he gets a move from Chelsea and then shows, consistently, that he's actually good enough.

[G51]

7 hours ago, accies1874 said:

I don't think we'll see any new players for the Euros.

From the last squad, Cooper will definitely come in, Forrest probably and I sadly think one of Burke or Paterson will too. Griffiths might also have a chance.

I don't know if Forrest will even be fit for it? He's basically missed the entire season.

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

2 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Gilmour won't be anywhere near the Scotland team until he gets a move from Chelsea and then shows, consistently, that he's actually good enough.

Did you miss the game when he ran rings round the Liverpool team last season?  There’s a special nutmeg on Fabinho as part of the extended highlights reel from the game - you know, a Brazilian international and Champions League winner.  

He’s demonstrably good enough for Scotland, and most likely at the age of 20, a starter every week for all but three or four teams in the Premier League.

Failing to start ahead of Kante (World Cup Winner), Kovacic (66 caps for Croatia, World Cup runner up, and former Real Madrid/Inter Milan player), and Jorginho (established Italy internationalist) is not exactly the fatal career blow you appear to judge it to be.

[velo army]

1 hour ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

Did you miss the game when he ran rings round the Liverpool team last season?  There’s a special nutmeg on Fabinho as part of the extended highlights reel from the game - you know, a Brazilian international and Champions League winner.  

He’s demonstrably good enough for Scotland, and most likely at the age of 20, a starter every week for all but three or four teams in the Premier League.

Failing to start ahead of Kante (World Cup Winner), Kovacic (66 caps for Croatia, World Cup runner up, and former Real Madrid/Inter Milan player), and Jorginho (established Italy internationalist) is not exactly the fatal career blow you appear to judge it to be.

Oli Burke once had an absolutely sensational game against Dortmund. He was unplayable.

It's a facetious point, but nobody has seen Gilmour play in ages, aside from a fairly poor performance against Barnsley. He isn't obviously better than what we have right now and absolutely needs game time.

[accies1874]

I don't know if Forrest will even be fit for it? He's basically missed the entire season.

Is he not playing regularly for Celtic again? I've not watched them for a while (since his first game back, actually).

[G51]

3 hours ago, accies1874 said:

10 hours ago, G51 said:

I don't know if Forrest will even be fit for it? He's basically missed the entire season.

Is he not playing regularly for Celtic again? I've not watched them for a while (since his first game back, actually).

He’s missed the last few games with another injury. Don’t know if it’s another long term one or not

[DA Baracus]

8 hours ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

Did you miss the game when he ran rings round the Liverpool team last season?  There’s a special nutmeg on Fabinho as part of the extended highlights reel from the game - you know, a Brazilian international and Champions League winner.  

He’s demonstrably good enough for Scotland, and most likely at the age of 20, a starter every week for all but three or four teams in the Premier League.

Failing to start ahead of Kante (World Cup Winner), Kovacic (66 caps for Croatia, World Cup runner up, and former Real Madrid/Inter Milan player), and Jorginho (established Italy internationalist) is not exactly the fatal career blow you appear to judge it to be.

So we're calling up players on the basis of single performances now?

Not playing regularly, or in his case barely playing at all, is a pretty significant blow.

I hope he is as good as made out and, once playing regularly, shows that and can bring that to Scotland. But right now we simply don't know because he isn't playing.

[craigkillie]

No, football managers are able to make judgements on players based on how good they know they are, regardless of whether they happen to be flavour of the month at their current club. If Andy Robertson had a contract dispute with Liverpool and ended up not playing for six months would we also simply not know whether he was good enough?

[charger29]

Can't believe Tierney might be back for tomorrow's game. Only a week ago Arteta was saying maybe 2-3 left until he would be back in training. Hopefully they're not rushing him back for the EL semi's.

[DA Baracus]

2 hours ago, craigkillie said:

No, football managers are able to make judgements on players based on how good they know they are, regardless of whether they happen to be flavour of the month at their current club. If Andy Robertson had a contract dispute with Liverpool and ended up not playing for six months would we also simply not know whether he was good enough?

A stupid argument, as you well know, given Robertson has years of playing first team football and therefore years of proving he is good enough, unlike Gilmour.

[craigkillie]

More or less stupid than saying that it's impossible to know how good a player is if they aren't getting a game for one of the best teams in the world?

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, craigkillie said:

More or less stupid than saying that it's impossible to know how good a player is if they aren't getting a game for one of the best teams in the world?

More stupid obviously, the more a player has played its easier to judge his ability.

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

14 hours ago, velo army said:

Oli Burke once had an absolutely sensational game against Dortmund. He was unplayable.

It's a facetious point, but nobody has seen Gilmour play in ages, aside from a fairly poor performance against Barnsley. He isn't obviously better than what we have right now and absolutely needs game time.

Yes. I’m sure he’s turned awful overnight, despite having a handful of MOTM performances for Chelsea.

Gilmour is easily good enough for this Scotland team - or that matter, any Scotland team in decades.

There may be any number of fair reasons for him not being included, but ability isn’t one of them. I’d take him over Fleck, or Paterson in a heartbeat.

[DA Baracus]

3 hours ago, craigkillie said:

More or less stupid than saying that it's impossible to know how good a player is if they aren't getting a game for one of the best teams in the world?

Ah, moving the goalposts now. Poor.

This isn't difficult; he hasn't played first team football regularly enough for anyone to know that he will be of a standard, consistently, to be considered for the Scotland team. How is anyone struggling with this?

I hope he is great and that he brings that to Scotland, but in having a couple of good games and, as pointed out by someone else, a couple of not so great games, we can't tell yet. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by DA Baracus

[craigkillie]

Being considered for the Scotland team, as you put it, is not a lifetime achievement award, it's about picking the best players. Billy Gilmour is a fantastically talented footballer, he doesn't need to be playing regular football for Chelsea for people to know that. If he's good enough, then he's good enough - whether or not he plays 5 or 6 games between now and the end of the season won't change that. Sometimes, when you have a player of clear and exceptional talent you have to gamble on them - this isn't a guy breaking through at Celtic or West Ham or something, it's a guy being widely considered to be one of the best in the world.

Your argument has no logical basis, that's why I'm having to establish exactly what parameters would permit you to think someone is good enough to play for Scotland. Surely even if they've played 300 games at club level we don't know if they'll be able to play for Scotland because they won't ever have played for Scotland before? At some point you have to take the plunge and pick them based on the rest of the evidence you have available to you.

[velo army]

7 hours ago, craigkillie said:

No, football managers are able to make judgements on players based on how good they know they are, regardless of whether they happen to be flavour of the month at their current club. If Andy Robertson had a contract dispute with Liverpool and ended up not playing for six months would we also simply not know whether he was good enough?

Come on man. This is obtuse. There's a difference between a young player who only has 20 games and isn't playing at a sensitive time in his development (because he isn't deemed good enough) and one who is proven, experienced and whose exclusion is based on a technicality.

I have no problems having him in the squad, for what it's worth. I was more railing against the argument that we should take him based on a purple patch almost two years ago.