Scotland at the Euros - A Retrospective

[Lurkst]

I'd forgotten the squads for Euro 92 were only 20 players with 2 goalies.

Bonus point for first to get who was Andy Goram's backup?...

 

[velo army]

17 minutes ago, Lurkst said:

I'd forgotten the squads for Euro 92 were only 20 players with 2 goalies.

Bonus point for first to get who was Andy Goram's backup?...

 

Leighton being the obvious answer, but I imagine the answer isn't obvious.

Ally Maxwell?

[Savage Henry]

20 minutes ago, Lurkst said:

I'd forgotten the squads for Euro 92 were only 20 players with 2 goalies.

Bonus point for first to get who was Andy Goram's backup?...

 

Henry Smith of Hearts.  Can’t remember why, though.  Presuming injuries, as he hardly got any caps and was never really second choice.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Savage Henry

[Lurkst]

Just now, Savage Henry said:

Henry Smith of Hearts.

Congratulations to Team Henry  

 

[ArabGaz]

6 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

Henry Smith of Hearts.  Can’t remember why, though.  Presuming injuries, as he hardly got any caps and was never really second choice.

To continue the Hearts theme, Gilles Roussett was the France backup ‘keeper according to Wiki. 

[Monkey Tennis]

5 hours ago, Anfield 1977 said:

This was at a time when it looked as though Scotland would never qualilfy for the Championships and there was a theory that we only peaked every four years which was used to explain the then regular appearances on the World stage.

The fact is too, that during the 80s and into the 90s, it was simply easier to qualify for World Cups because you didn't need to win your group to do so.

[Anfield 1977]

1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

The fact is too, that during the 80s and into the 90s, it was simply easier to qualify for World Cups because you didn't need to win your group to do so.

The fact is we finished fourth in our qualifying groups for the European Championships of 1980, '84 and 1988 when only the winners qualified.

So even if second  place allowed qualification our record would have been no better.

We consistently disapointed with, for example, only one win in the group for France 84.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Anfield 1977
spelling error

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, Anfield 1977 said:

The fact is we finished fourth in our qualifying groups for the European Championships of 1980, '84 and 1988 when only the winners qualified.

So even if second  place allowed qualification our record would have been no better.

We consistently disapointed with, for example, only one win in the group for France 84.

Yes, that's true.  I knew we hadn't really come close to qualifying for any of those tournaments, but hadn't realised our record was quite that bad.

[HalfCutNinja]

9 hours ago, Anfield 1977 said:

Well if I wasn't already I am starting to feel really old now as I attended our six previous games at the Euros - I willl ber happy if I get a ticket for just one of this summers matches.

For me the biggest achievement was reaching Sweden by finishing top of a group with Romania, Bulgaria, a good Switzerland side under Roy Hodgson, ond - okay - San Marino. Only the group winners qualified for the finals with the eight competitors split into two groups.

This was at a time when it looked as though Scotland would never qualilfy for the Championships and there was a theory that we only peaked every four years which was used to explain the then regular appearances on the World stage.

Fot the opener I thought we got what we deserved. Roxburgh played negative football to try and stop the Dutch performing and we deservedly lost to a late goal.

My view of this changed slightly when watching the BBC Scotland rerun last year as we were just a little more adventurous than I thought at the time.

Frustration for the German match as, knowing we had to get a result, we tried to attack from the start. Why hadn't we done this in the first game was the view of msot fans.

Yes the second goal was a freak but the Germans hit wood twice in the game so it would be wrong to say we had no luck.

The CIS game was a contest to see who finished last of the eight competitors and this time luck saw McStays long range  shot - worthy of a goal - come back from the post and enter the net from the goalkeepers back.

There was a feeling ahead of the tournament that if Brian McLair failed to score in the block of four games (we played in Norway en route) then surely Roxburgh would finally drop who many percieved as his blue eyed boy but who had failed to score in any of his previous internationals.

I can recall muted cheers when his first half effort took a German style deflection and sailed past the keeper. Pleased that we had establised a two goal lead but despair that we were likely to be stuck with him for the forseeable.

Nice to go out with a victory and afte all unlilke the 1970s noone had been under any illusions Scotland had been anything other than there to make up the numbers. Like I said qualification from that group was a major achievement.

We rode our luck against the Dutch at Villa Park four years later but as the game entered its latter stages I had a strange sense we were going to hold out as it seemed it was not the Dutches day.

Whilst most people had been willing a Switzerland win in the tournaments opener at Wembley I thought the draw was the best result for our hops of progressing. I did however consider it hindered our chance of winning the next game. After all how likely was it England would fail to win  their first two consecutive `home' games?

All looking good at half time but England looked a better side after the restart.

It is often said we would have gone on to win the game if the penatly had gone in but I can't help but think Brown may have tried to play for a 1-1 result with the Swiss game to come. We'll never know for sure.

Of course many blamed Seaman for our exit for conceding as England led the Dutch 4-0 whilst McCosits strike defeated the Swiss.

A draw would have safely seen both teams through at Wembley that night and one goal from three outings was never going to be enough for Scotland and yet again we fell at the first hurdle.

I think history has been rewritten when we look back on those times as a goldne age. Going back to the 1950s we have taken part in ten tournaments and failed to get out of the first round each and every time.

We used to speak of the second round as the promised land when realistically it is not a big achievment.

Wales have taken part in three tournaments and reached ane semi and one quarter final whilst Northern Ireland and the Republic have sailed into the second phase without fuss whilst we used to talk about this time we CAN make the second round.

Our last exit in St Ettiene was just as painful as the others (Don't Come Home Too Soon) and going home `early' was always devastating. I travelled to six tournaments from 1982-98 and never once returned feeling good about the team - always a feeling of `what if....?'

Strange to think that Scotland took part in four major tournaments during the 1990s yet for me the best of times were the 1970s when there was genuine belief we could achieve something,

Aye but Ireland got to the quarters in 90 without winning a single game. Four draws, one penalty shoot-out. Scotland have gone out with five points twice, I believe the only team ever to do that or were for a long time. 

So its not as simple as saying they qualified and we didnae, there's a bit more to it than that.

NI lost two games won one, that got them out of the group. We've done that too and gone out, so again you have to look at the actual results before just saying they did great we did shite, its not actually the case.

 

Edited to add

 

NI qualified losing two games and winning one in 2016.

92 we lost two and won one went out. 96 we drew one, won one and lost one went out.

So we actually did better than them, and it was harder to qualify in those days too. Luck plays a large part.

ROI got out of their group in 90 with 3 points, having not won a game. We went out in 90 having won a game, went out in 82 with a win and a draw, went out in 78 with a win and a draw, and went out in 74 with a win and two draws.

ROI went through in 94 with a win and a draw.

So our results are actually significantly better than ROI and NI, we were just a bit unlucky a few times.

Edited April 6, 2021 by HalfCutNinja

[Anfield 1977]

46 minutes ago, HalfCutNinja said:

Aye but Ireland got to the quarters in 90 without winning a single game. Four draws, one penalty shoot-out. Scotland have gone out with five points twice, I believe the only team ever to do that or were for a long time. 

 

When did we aver accumulate five points at a World Cup then?

Here are the totals -

1954 0 points

1958 1 point

1974 4 points

1978 3 points

1982 3 points

1986 1 point

1990 2 points

1998 1 point

 

[velo army]

Aye, 1994 was the first world cup where they gave 3 points for a win iirc. Utterly ridiculous that we went out in 1974 and 1978 having a win and a draw. That's enough to qualify from any group these days.

[Lurkst]

1 hour ago, velo army said:

Aye, 1994 was the first world cup where they gave 3 points for a win iirc. Utterly ridiculous that we went out in 1974 and 1978 having a win and a draw. That's enough to qualify from any group these days.

We went out in 74 with a win and two draws.

Under the current World Cup format I think we'd have finished above Brazil. 

 

[Lurkst]

2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Yes, that's true.  I knew we hadn't really come close to qualifying for any of those tournaments, but hadn't realised our record was quite that bad.

Our Euros record up to the 90s was absolutely dire. Even then amateur Denmark beat us in the early 70s.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

7 hours ago, Lurkst said:

We went out in 74 with a win and two draws.

Under the current World Cup format I think we'd have finished above Brazil. 

 

How so?

Their goal difference was one better than ours and the head to head was all square.  

[HalfCutNinja]

8 hours ago, Anfield 1977 said:

When did we aver accumulate five points at a World Cup then?

Here are the totals -

1954 0 points

1958 1 point

1974 4 points

1978 3 points

1982 3 points

1986 1 point

1990 2 points

1998 1 point

 

Sorry the equivalent of it today. We went out 74 with a win and two draws. I think the only team ever to do that, and better than ROI or NI have ever performed at a tournament. Yet we went out and they went through, twice in the case of ROI.

[Lurkst]

2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

How so?

Their goal difference was one better than ours and the head to head was all square.  

You're right.

So long since we've had to worry about it, but I thought now if three teams are tied on points it's the record between them that counts, and the fact Brazil drew 0-0 with Scotland and Yugoslavia would make them third.

However that's how the groups are decided at the Euros, the World Cup still has goal difference as the first tie breaker.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, Lurkst said:

You're right.

So long since we've had to worry about it, but I thought now if three teams are tied on points it's the record between them that counts, and the fact Brazil drew 0-0 with Scotland and Yugoslavia would make them third.

However that's how the groups are decided at the Euros, the World Cup still has goal difference as the first tie breaker.

Ah right.  I wasn't aware of that, even as Euros criteria to be honest.

[Lurkst]

10 hours ago, Lurkst said:

Our Euros record up to the 90s was absolutely dire. Even then amateur Denmark beat us in the early 70s.

Charlie Nicholas' goal here was probably the highlight of our first 20 years of attempting to qualify for the Euros...

 

Edit...I forgot the win at Wembley in 67 was a European Championship game too 

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Lurkst

[HalfCutNinja]

1 hour ago, Lurkst said:

Charlie Nicholas' goal here was probably the highlight of our first 20 years of attempting to qualify for the Euros...

 

Edit...I forgot the win at Wembley in 67 was a European Championship game too 

 

What a player he was. We've not had attacking players as talented as that for thirty years now.

[Guest TheJTS98]

3 hours ago, Lurkst said:

You're right.

So long since we've had to worry about it, but I thought now if three teams are tied on points it's the record between them that counts, and the fact Brazil drew 0-0 with Scotland and Yugoslavia would make them third.

However that's how the groups are decided at the Euros, the World Cup still has goal difference as the first tie breaker.

We'd have been fine if the Zaire keeper hadn't let in a ludicrous third goal late in their last game. In that case, we'd have been through on goals scored.