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The Goalkeeper - Next Big Problem


Ludo*1

Who should be Scotland number 1 at the Euros?  

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1 hour ago, BB_Bino said:

I know Accies1874 has just pipped me to it but Blessing Oluyemi is getting high praise at SFA towers at the moment and has looked like a really good prospect both times I have watched him. I also had high hopes for Harry Stone at Hearts,  but his development seems to have stalled, and I heard his loan deal at Partick Thistle was a disaster, thought he would have been an established Scotland Under 21 Keeper by now but might end up going down as another "could of been" player.

Totally agree though, our record of producing Goalkeepers over the last 10-20 years has been pretty dire. I love Gordon but it says everything you need to know that he is still our No1. I've heard of many a young Goalkeeper who was going to break through, but they just haven't. I don't think this is necessarily down to the Coaching, a million different factors come into play, more youth players are emptied by a club than make it, but nobody points to the standard of coaching the outfield players get, it's simply just accepted that people weren't good enough or it just didn't happen.

Strachan was right and were just to wee to produce keepers

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6 hours ago, accies1874 said:

Tbf we've also seen better teams than us who've been let down by a honking goalie. Ukraine were miles ahead in the play-off last summer yet we could've snuck through because of the jobber they had in goals. England also went years without a decent goalkeeper until Hart emerged (before he turned to shit). It might just be bad luck, but I really wouldn't be surprised if we we end up losing points this campaign because of the dip in quality. 

As an aside, I'm sure I've mentioned him on here before but Aberdeen's Blessing Oluyemi is the best goalkeeper I've seen in the u18 league this season so there's a kernel of hope for you. I think Murray Johnson is supposed to be the standout in that age group, though, but I don't think I've seen him. 


Watched Hibs' UEFA Youth League game against Dortmund and was incredibly impressed by Johnson for the first 75 minutes or so right up until he dropped a massive clanger for the equaliser. He carries himself like a proper goalkeeper and throws himself about the goal well. I wouldn't be surprised if he is on loan in the Championship as a first choice next season and that might well be the time where we get to see what he's made of.

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6 hours ago, accies1874 said:

Tbf we've also seen better teams than us who've been let down by a honking goalie. Ukraine were miles ahead in the play-off last summer yet we could've snuck through because of the jobber they had in goals. England also went years without a decent goalkeeper until Hart emerged (before he turned to shit). It might just be bad luck, but I really wouldn't be surprised if we we end up losing points this campaign because of the dip in quality. 

As an aside, I'm sure I've mentioned him on here before but Aberdeen's Blessing Oluyemi is the best goalkeeper I've seen in the u18 league this season so there's a kernel of hope for you. I think Murray Johnson is supposed to be the standout in that age group, though, but I don't think I've seen him. 

David James had a dodgy reputation, but he was a quality keeper particularly as he got older and before that was Seaman. Problem was, like us now, if the main guy is out, then they've only got utter shite to rely on.

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12 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

David James had a dodgy reputation, but he was a quality keeper particularly as he got older and before that was Seaman. Problem was, like us now, if the main guy is out, then they've only got utter shite to rely on.

Was James not backup for a while? I'm sure they burned through a load of keepers like Robinson, Carson, Foster and Green with James just sort of coming in as and when. 

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All of Steve Clarke's discussions around the Goalkeeping situation so far that I could find. A lot of people are making the assumption that Angus Gunn will definitely take the #1 shirt but I'd like to think all three will start from zero and all start training with a fair chance at starting the Cyprus game. Steve Clarke suggests that will be the case but as we all know what a manager says isn't always how it will play out.

 

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I had a good conversation. He (Angus Gunn) was very honest, I was very honest and obviously we've lost Craig Gordon injured which is a massive blow to us as Craig was the undisputed number one. I looked at the pool of Goalkeepers and I just felt if we could improve the pool of goalkeepers then that's what we should do, so that was the thinking behind getting Angus to come on board.

The first time I spoke to him he chose to come and play for the Scottish National Team so what's gone on before has gone on before but for now he's part of the squad and a very welcome part of the squad too. 

The good thing is we've got a full weeks training. I've got three good goalkeepers: Liam Kelly's been in almost every squad; Zander's been in the squads obviously lost his place when he wasn't playing and then he was sitting behind Craig at Hearts so Zander's back in the squad and Angus comes into the first squad. None of them have got any caps, so all to play for in the week.

If you look at it there's not a lot behind Craig (Gordon), David Marshall and Allan McGregor. There's not many that were capped in that period anyway so everyone starts afresh and it can be a big chance for somebody to nail down the number one spot. 

Just the circumstances and the situation as to how Angus had come to his earlier decisions, how he had come to his later decision. For me it was just being honest that he would be coming in as one of the goalkeepers in the squad and it would be up to him to force his way into the team if he was good enough to do that. So just a general discussion as you would have with a player.

Steve Clarke

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjB7h21cwi4

 

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I think it's probably a little bit longer than a few weeks ago that we had the conversation. I heard through a third party that Angus (Gunn) would be interested in playing for Scotland. 

Obviously the situation with Craig (Gordon) is really disappointing - disappointing mainly for Craig, he's been #1 now for a number of games for us, he's been fantastic and we're going to miss him that's for sure.

I was just looking to give us a little more depth to the goalkeeping department and obviously Angus has decided to step up and follow in the footsteps of his father which is great and he'll certainly make it more competitive in the goalkeeping department. He just brings competition for the place. 

Obviously Zander Clark has been involved before, Liam's been involved in a lot of squads. None of them have been capped, we've got a full week, clear weeks training and it's a great chance for one of them to put themselves at the forefront and get themselves in the next squad so that was the aim of trying to make the goalkeeping department more competitive.

Steve Clarke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBG9VXqRySQ

 

Quote

When I lost my No 1 goalkeeper to a long-term injury I looked at the depth within the goalkeeping squad and there wasn’t a lot there. 

I heard that Angus was receptive to changing nationality to play for Scotland like his dad did before him. I just thought it was an opportunity to go and speak to him. I drove to Norwich and we had a great conversation. Fortunately for us, he has decided to come and play for us. 

We just had an honest conversation about where his head was, what he was thinking. He was quite honest. He didn’t feel he was in a position to commit when he was asked before. He was born in England and wanted to see how it panned out. He’d been through the English FA system, which a lot of players have done.

He probably thinks that playing for Scotland is his best chance to play international football. But that’s a conversation I’ve had with other players and that’s just the reality of it. He has decided to come and play for us and it gives more options and more competition in that area, where I feel we are a little bit light.

Size, shape, reliability. He’s got the best save percentage in the Championship this season. He’s a decent goalkeeper but Zander has had a good season as well and Liam has been in almost every squad I’ve picked - he’s had a tougher season at Motherwell, but seems to have come through that and have had better results and performances. 

The keepers have a clean slate. None of them have got any caps. It’s a clear week into the first game, so they have to show me, John Carver and Chris Woods, the goalkeeping coach, what they can do and then we’ll make a choice. 

I don’t guarantee anyone a game. I did that once way back early in my managerial career and it was the wrong thing to do. I have never done it again.

Steve Clarke 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/23386769.scotland-manager-steve-clarke-elliot-anderson-dual-nationality/

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1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

All of Steve Clarke's discussions around the Goalkeeping situation so far that I could find. A lot of people are making the assumption that Angus Gunn will definitely take the #1 shirt but I'd like to think all three will start from zero and all start training with a fair chance at starting the Cyprus game. Steve Clarke suggests that will be the case but as we all know what a manager says isn't always how it will play out.

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjB7h21cwi4

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBG9VXqRySQ

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/23386769.scotland-manager-steve-clarke-elliot-anderson-dual-nationality/

“He’s a decent keeper” isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement in football parlance.  

You’d still be surprised if he didn’t start against Cyprus, though. 

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5 hours ago, accies1874 said:

Was James not backup for a while? I'm sure they burned through a load of keepers like Robinson, Carson, Foster and Green with James just sort of coming in as and when. 

James was no.1 for the two or three years between Seaman and Robinson. 

You may recall Zidane leaving James flat footed twice at Euro 2004?

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7 hours ago, Number seven said:

Watching Kelly v Rangers today. Awful .

Sadly, would have to agree. Watched him 3 times recently and looks a mile off it. Haven’t saw much of Clarke since he’s been at hearts so can’t really comment but I would be stunned if Angus Gunn isn’t our Keeper next week 

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31 minutes ago, Elgin Macca said:

Sadly, would have to agree. Watched him 3 times recently and looks a mile off it. Haven’t saw much of Clarke since he’s been at hearts so can’t really comment but I would be stunned if Angus Gunn isn’t our Keeper next week 

Looking at Kelly surprised McLaughlin isn't in

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7 hours ago, Crawford Bridge said:

James was no.1 for the two or three years between Seaman and Robinson. 

You may recall Zidane leaving James flat footed twice at Euro 2004?

He was decent enough, though. It's not like England were denied trophies because James was a bit pish. Someone like Brazil or Germany could've had him between the sticks and still done about as well.

Seaman, of course, got the blame for England going out two years earlier, despite being a genuinely quality keeper  :P

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On 18/03/2023 at 10:28, 2426255 said:

A lot of people are making the assumption that Angus Gunn will definitely take the #1 shirt

I think it's a given that he will and Clarke is just playing it cute in the interviews. If he wasn't seen as a better option than what we currently had then I doubt Clarke would have even had the initial talks. If he thought the answer was in Clark or Kelly he would have gone with it, and called McLaughlin or McCrorie up playing the "he's in for experience for the future" or "There's inexperience with Clarke and Kelly so McLaughlin is here to guide them through it" cards. This is what tells me that Gunn has been given assurances that, assuming he keeps up the levels of performances and does well when he plays, he will be the number 1 for the foreseeable future.

Having watched the Celtic game on Saturday, it's a pity David Marshall retired when he did, I doubt Gunn would have been called up had he not. 

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6 minutes ago, Crawford Bridge said:

Gunn will be no. 1 because he is the best of the three with his feet. 

It's that simple. 

I think we're all going to miss the random distribution algorithm that controlled where Craig Gordon's clearances landed.

Football needs a bit of uncertainty.

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On 17/03/2023 at 22:05, Caledonian1 said:

Surely another contender will appear in the next few years.  It's unbelievable that we have not produced anyone of any quality for so long - The Gordon, Marshall, McGregor era is almost over and yet there is no top class goalkeeper under the age of 38.  Our top clubs all have full time goalkeeping coaches and run academies and somehow no one even comes close to matching  these old timers. Often Scotland will play what many would term an inferior nation but more often than not they have a top class goalie playing in one of the better leagues Oblak and Handanovic for Slovenia are two of the worlds best (Oblak the best definitely) so what is that Slovenia do that we don't?

My own club Aberdeen have a woeful record in producing goalies - no home grown keeper has gone on to have a successful career since perhaps Bryan Gunn ironically.  I wouldnt count Bain as he has had years not playing.

 

Every nation has stronger and weaker positions.

Our left back selection is amongst the very best in the world, far ahead of (say) Brazil. I doubt they are coming to the SFA to see how to develop footballers.

There's a whole lot of randomness to it and I'm sure in 10 years time (regardless of what we do) we will still have stronger positions and weaker positions.

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On 17/03/2023 at 14:05, Caledonian1 said:

Surely another contender will appear in the next few years.  It's unbelievable that we have not produced anyone of any quality for so long - The Gordon, Marshall, McGregor era is almost over and yet there is no top class goalkeeper under the age of 38.  Our top clubs all have full time goalkeeping coaches and run academies and somehow no one even comes close to matching  these old timers. Often Scotland will play what many would term an inferior nation but more often than not they have a top class goalie playing in one of the better leagues Oblak and Handanovic for Slovenia are two of the worlds best (Oblak the best definitely) so what is that Slovenia do that we don't?

My own club Aberdeen have a woeful record in producing goalies - no home grown keeper has gone on to have a successful career since perhaps Bryan Gunn ironically.  I wouldnt count Bain as he has had years not playing.

 

Do many wee boys want to be the goalkeeper?

From the occasional glance, the most common advert on the youth football Facebook page for Fife seems to be folk looking for a goalkeeper.

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7 hours ago, Satoshi said:

Every nation has stronger and weaker positions.

Our left back selection is amongst the very best in the world, far ahead of (say) Brazil. I doubt they are coming to the SFA to see how to develop footballers.

There's a whole lot of randomness to it and I'm sure in 10 years time (regardless of what we do) we will still have stronger positions and weaker positions.

I’m hoping for a glut of exceptional No.10s. It would be great if Scotland could find our version of Messi, Neymar, or the likes.

Actually, I want a Scottish version of Ronaldo (fat version) and a Scottish version of Socrates. If the powers that be could arrange it, that would be splendid.

If we had that I’d be happy muddling along with whichever diddy ‘keepers we have at that time.

Edited by Scary Bear
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21 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

I’m hoping for a glut of exceptional No.10s. It would be great if Scotland could find our version of Messi, Neymar, or the likes.

Actually, I want a Scottish version of Ronaldo (fat version) and a Scottish version of Socrates. If the powers that be could arrange it, that would be splendid.

If we had that I’d be happy muddling along with whichever diddy ‘keepers we have at that time.

Gary Harkins could have been our Riquelme, Stephen Dobbie our Zola and Ross McCormack our Del Piero.

There is a certainly a case to be made that certain football cultures / climates will produce certain types of players but I don't think this particularly affects our ability to produce goalkeepers. It's a cyclical thing for all nations and that wheel will turn again. I remember when we all desperate to find a left footed Alan Hutton to replace the plodding Gary Naysmith.

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We are just unlucky that 3 of our best 7 or 8 keepers of all time were almost identical in age and all at the tail end of their career now.

 

Any of Gordon/McGregor/Marshall would have absolutely scooshed the Scotland caps record if not for the existence of the other two. 

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