The Goalkeeper - Next Big Problem

[BFTD]

Just now, Skyline Drifter said:

I'm not sure where you've got that about Dykes from. He was born in Australia and raised in Australia. His sister won Commonwealth Gold for Australia. He absolutely considered himself Australian without a doubt until he became a first team regular in the Scottish Championship with us and it began to be queried. By the time he moved to Livi he had both Australia and Scotland courting him and made a decision based on the fact he was by then married with a Scottish born child and living in Dumfries and didn't see himself returning to Australia permanently. Plus Scotland is probably still more high profile even if Australia are more likely to make World Cups.

He did turn Australia down but I expect if he'd had to make the decision a couple of years earlier when his own circumstances were different he'd have chosen Australia. He's always had both a British and Australian passport but when he first came to us he listed his nationality as Australian first.

I read an interview with him where he said he'd always considered himself Scottish as well as Australian, and playing for Scotland was always his first choice.

Maybe he's full of it but, considering Australia are more successful than us on the world stage these days, I'm inclined to believe him. He could've finished his career with appearances at two or three World Cups and have had a realistic chance of winning an Asian Cup at some point, but he swapped it for a nation that hasn't won a game at an international tournament in twenty-six years (so far). Surely prestige or glory had no bearing on that decision, and it seems a bit odd to decide that he just didn't want to travel during international breaks, but each to their own.

[Donathan]

5 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

The answer may change when there's such a drop off in standard of alternative. I may be wrong but I thought when Marshall "retired" he said he would remain available for emergencies.

And do what? Turn himself Welsh? If he takes the huff, he takes the huff. McCrorie, as much as I think he's a real talent, is the least of our concerns right now. He's not played a first team in God knows how long. The one who might reasonably take the huff is Kelly. Can't say I'm massively bothered if he does.

This. Absolutely this. Much depends on the prognosis of Gordon. If he's got a chance of being back in the later part of the year and we need a No 1 to cover the rest of this season then we should be asking David Marshall. If he says no then it's likely Clark is the next best option. If the general opinion is Gordon's not coming back that may change the thinking though with a new keeper needed for next season anyway assuming Marshall is unlikely to come back in the longer term. Then we probably may as well blood Clark / Kelly now (hopefully the former).

He needs to be no such thing. He's a good prospect but he's 18 years old (and only just turned 18 at that). He should be nowhere near a conversation about Scotland's first team national keeper right now.

 

He doesn't quite say that in this article, but it sounds like he's suggesting that the reasons behind his retirement were that he felt the younger keepers would benefit more from a place on the Scotland bench behind Craig Gordon than he would.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12629428/david-marshall-scotland-goalkeeper-retires-from-international-football#:~:text=David Marshall%3A Scotland goalkeeper retires from international football,-David Marshall has&text=Scotland goalkeeper David Marshall has,to gain vital international experience.

It's not like he said he was retiring to focus on his club football or spend more time with his family.

 

I think he would be interested in coming back if he could be guaranteed to start. I've not seen a huge amount of Hibs games this season, but from those I have seen, he seems to still be an okay keeper. Not as good as Gordon (he never was, IMO) but if I had the choice of any fit keeper to start a competitive match for Scotland tomorrow, it'd be David Marshall.

 

 

[Skyline Drifter]

5 hours ago, BFTD said:

I read an interview with him where he said he'd always considered himself Scottish as well as Australian, and playing for Scotland was always his first choice.

Maybe he's full of it but, considering Australia are more successful than us on the world stage these days, I'm inclined to believe him. He could've finished his career with appearances at two or three World Cups and have had a realistic chance of winning an Asian Cup at some point, but he swapped it for a nation that hasn't won a game at an international tournament in twenty-six years (so far). Surely prestige or glory had no bearing on that decision, and it seems a bit odd to decide that he just didn't want to travel during international breaks, but each to their own.

His parents are from Dumfries, a part of him has certainly always been Scottish too but regardless of what you may or may not have read he definitely considered himself Australian for his first 18 to 20 years of life. Of course at that stage it wasnt something he had to consider with any actual ramifications. 

[2426255]

Quote

With my wife and kids being in Scotland the last three years I’ve missed a hell of a lot. I felt I owed a bit back to them. You need a balance of life. I’ve not really regretted it yet. It’s tough watching because it’s all you’ve known, but a lot of people say you know when you need to make a big decision. The manager spoke after the Ukraine game about being all in for the next two and four years. I just felt it was the right time.

I spoke to Zander and Liam and they’re not daft. Greegsy and me have retired, Craig is at an age where there are probably four or five keepers thinking it’s them next so they’ll be pushing. It’s a great chance for Liam and Zander. They are completely different and Craig is coming off the back of a good season so if he can continue that, it’s his jersey. Ultimately, though - it won’t be too long until someone has to take over.

David Marshall (July '22)

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/david-marshall-speaks-on-scotland-retirement-hibs-move-craig-gordon-and-allan-mcgregor-and-that-save-in-serbia-3756780

It doesn't really matter what he's said previously as he is entitled to change his mind and so as others have said it wouldn't be a surprise to see David Marshall back in March. I don't have strong feelings on the subject but I'd edge more towards seeing how a new goalkeeper does in March personally.

Edited January 4, 2023 by 2426255

[Bing.McCrosby]

On 03/01/2023 at 17:06, woof! said:

Murray Johnson needs to be in this conversation. He looks very good and for me has looked the most promising keeper out of the various others that have emerged at various Scotland levels in the last few years.

 

23 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

He needs to be no such thing. He's a good prospect but he's 18 years old (and only just turned 18 at that). He should be nowhere near a conversation about Scotland's first team national keeper right now.

We were also discussing prospects for the future, I dont think he's suggesting an 18 year old with 5 appearances for airdrie should be in sticks against spain.

[Empty It]

22 hours ago, Donathan said:

 

I've not seen a huge amount of Hibs games this season, but from those I have seen, he seems to still be an okay keeper.

 

Pretty sure I read somewhere that he has the worst shot/save ratio in the entire league. He's not having a great season.

[albagubrath]

22 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

 

We were also discussing prospects for the future, I dont think he's suggesting an 18 year old with 5 appearances for airdrie should be in sticks against spain.

If we are talking about prospects, what about the two Hogarth boys. Jay (19, Rangers on loan at Alloa) or Nicky (21, Nottingham Forest on loan at Falkirk). Both have had lots of minutes this year in league 1. If Transfermarkt can be trusted both have had well over 1000 minutes this year which is decent for a 21 yo keeper and pretty good for a 19 yo. 
 

I haven’t seen either myself, are they any good?

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, albagubrath said:

If we are talking about prospects, what about the two Hogarth boys. Jay (19, Rangers on loan at Alloa) or Nicky (21, Nottingham Forest on loan at Falkirk). Both have had lots of minutes this year in league 1. If Transfermarkt can be trusted both have had well over 1000 minutes this year which is decent for a 21 yo keeper and pretty good for a 19 yo. 
 

I haven’t seen either myself, are they any good?

I didnt know who they were until I read that, so I dont have a clue

But hopefully aye, hopefully the pair of them are world class

[Kyle]

Looks like Angus Gunn is switching allegiances to Scotland. Decent goalkeeper but he’s made it clear in the past that he doesn’t want to play for us. 

[Donathan]

37 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Looks like Angus Gunn is switching allegiances to Scotland. Decent goalkeeper but he’s made it clear in the past that he doesn’t want to play for us. 

Gunn would immediately be our number 1 at least while Gordon is out if not for the next decade.

 

Could be problem solved. 

[BFTD]

5 hours ago, albagubrath said:

If we are talking about prospects, what about the two Hogarth boys. Jay (19, Rangers on loan at Alloa) or Nicky (21, Nottingham Forest on loan at Falkirk). Both have had lots of minutes this year in league 1. If Transfermarkt can be trusted both have had well over 1000 minutes this year which is decent for a 21 yo keeper and pretty good for a 19 yo. 

I haven’t seen either myself, are they any good?

Jay Hogarth's been decent for us, but he's still awfy young and there's a long way to go.

Scott Bain was better, but he was a couple of years older IIRC. Make of that what you will!

[Bing.McCrosby]

5 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Looks like Angus Gunn is switching allegiances to Scotland. Decent goalkeeper but he’s made it clear in the past that he doesn’t want to play for us. 

People keep saying this, but it seems to be a feeling rather than a fact. Nobody can provide an article or quote saying anything negative from him.

The article I just read said he said not at this time and politely declined. While not fully closing the door. Which is the same situation as che Adams whos done alright.

 

[RandomGuy.]

6 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

People keep saying this, but it seems to be a feeling rather than a fact. Nobody can provide an article or quote saying anything negative from him.

The article I just read said he said not at this time and politely declined. While not fully closing the door. Which is the same situation as che Adams whos done alright.

 

His dad said this...

Quote

He said: “Immediately after Stevie was appointed manager he contacted us asking if Angus would change his mind and play for Scotland in the future.

“Angus has been involved with England at different levels and decided that this was the course he wanted to stay on in the future.

... which, based on that last sentence, sounds like he'd outright declared for England and wouldnt be changing his mind.

https://www.nottheoldfirm.com/news/why-southampton-stopper-gunn-rejected-scotland-according-to-his-dad/

Edited January 6, 2023 by RandomGuy.

[Gordopolis]

Regardless of his past allegiance stance, this is good news. A physically imposing keeper of decent calibre and a good age, exactly when we need one.

His career hasn't quite taken off like it appeared it might 5 or so years ago, but if it had, this wouldn't be happening. 

I'm much happier this is (probably) happening than not.

[immcinto]

If he wants play for Scotland, then he should be picked. No question. 

[accies1874]

He's almost certainly better than the other options, but it would still be nice if a Premier League level goalkeeper popped up somewhere in the longer term. You'd imagine Gunn will have a wee bit more pressure than usual to perform if he does play for us given a) who he's replacing, and b ) how long it's taken to commit to us. 

[2426255]

I'm willing to give this guy the benefit of the doubt but I think there are pretty big questions around his motivations for representing us.

[Donathan]

Just now, 2426255 said:

I'm willing to give this guy the benefit of the doubt but I think there are pretty big questions around his motivations for representing us.

His motivations, IMO, are that he’s come to the conclusion that he will never be good enough to play for England given that he’s behind the likes of Jordan Pickford, Nick Pope, Aaron Ramsdale, Dean Henderson and Adam Johnston, some of which are younger or not much older than him. There’s no realistic path to him even making the squad for them, whereas defecting to Scotland more or less guarantees him a squad position and he will be the strong favourite to start competitive international fixtures going forward given that all of our other keepers are either injured, old and retired, or completely unproven at the top level.

 

Some people aren’t going to like that but let’s face it, Gunn isn’t the first player to bide his time and see whether he’s good enough for England before committing to us and he won’t be the last. I say give the lad a chance.

 

Don’t get me wrong, if he’s pulling out of squads when he doesn’t fancy it and not giving his all in training, then f**k him. But if he comes in and fully commits and becomes a well respected member of the dressing room like Che Adams has, I’ve got no problem with this at all. 

[albagubrath]

14 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I didnt know who they were until I read that, so I dont have a clue

But hopefully aye, hopefully the pair of them are world class

I didn’t mean to directly ask you specifically but I can see from my post I did, it was meant to be a general question to the board!

[craigkillie]

Not convinced he's anywhere near as good as some people seem to think he is, but we'll wait and see.