The Goalkeeper - Next Big Problem

[HalfCutNinja]

5 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

I couldn't care less about a player refusing call-ups before if they're willing to commit now and are good enough.

This doesn't apply to Angus Gunn, because although neither Kelly or Clark are good enough to be long term options they're both better goalkeepers than him.

Football is really quite simple in a lot of respects. It's a business like any other. Check this out

 

Zander Clark salary £2000 per week

Liam Kelly salary £4000 per week

Angus Gunn salary £40000 per week.

That's FORTY grand, or put another way ten times what Kelly gets and twenty times what Clark gets.

The people who make these decisions know what they're doing. They don't get it that wrong ever.

So, although I have seen all of them play, you don't need to have seen any of them play to know which one is the best of the three, and that the difference between them is quite vast.

 

[Caledonian1]

5 minutes ago, HalfCutNinja said:

Football is really quite simple in a lot of respects. It's a business like any other. Check this out

 

Zander Clark salary £2000 per week

Liam Kelly salary £4000 per week

Angus Gunn salary £40000 per week.

That's FORTY grand, or put another way ten times what Kelly gets and twenty times what Clark gets.

The people who make these decisions know what they're doing. They don't get it that wrong ever.

So, although I have seen all of them play, you don't need to have seen any of them play to know which one is the best of the three, and that the difference between them is quite vast.

 

That means absolutely nothing to be honest (other than Gunn getting paid way too much money for his ability)

So would you say Gunn should have been playing in goal for Scotland for the past couple of years as he, I assume, has been earning far more than Craig Gordon?

[HalfCutNinja]

7 minutes ago, Caledonian1 said:

That means absolutely nothing to be honest (other than Gunn getting paid way too much money for his ability)

So would you say Gunn should have been playing in goal for Scotland for the past couple of years as he, I assume, has been earning far more than Craig Gordon?

No, it means a hell of a lot. If you don't understand or accept that I can't help you any further. 

Do you think Liam Kelly just always wanted to play for Motherwell? Or doesn't want to earn more money? No, Motherwell offered him more than anyone else.

As for Gunn playing for Scotland the last couple of years well yes obviously. These people are professionals. They do it for the money.

Why do you think Gordon came back to Hearts? Cause his game was on the decline therefore so was his earning potential. It doesn't take a genius to analyse.

Honestly the pish you read on here sometimes is just staggering.

 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Caledonian1 said:

That means absolutely nothing to be honest (other than Gunn getting paid way too much money for his ability)

So would you say Gunn should have been playing in goal for Scotland for the past couple of years as he, I assume, has been earning far more than Craig Gordon?

Your not asking me, but is say the truth is somewhere in between.

Its not quite as cut and dried as @HalfCutNinja says. Theres always going to be alot of exceptions for various reasons.

But it certainly means more than "absolutely nothing"

In general terms its a pretty good indicator of ability.

Edited December 25, 2022 by BingMcCrosby

[HalfCutNinja]

8 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Your not asking me, but is say the truth is somewhere in between.

Its not quite as cut and dried as @HalfCutNinja says. Theres always going to be alot of exceptions for various reasons.

But it certainly means more than "absolutely nothing"

In general terms its a pretty good indicator of ability.

There are some exceptions but not when the disparity is that big. And all at their peak, not one of them is a young up and comer who may be temporarily underpaid as they're on the verge of their big breakthrough.

It's a very very easy analysis.

[No_Problemo]

41 minutes ago, HalfCutNinja said:

No, it means a hell of a lot. If you don't understand or accept that I can't help you any further. 

Do you think Liam Kelly just always wanted to play for Motherwell? Or doesn't want to earn more money? No, Motherwell offered him more than anyone else.

As for Gunn playing for Scotland the last couple of years well yes obviously. These people are professionals. They do it for the money.

Why do you think Gordon came back to Hearts? Cause his game was on the decline therefore so was his earning potential. It doesn't take a genius to analyse.

Honestly the pish you read on here sometimes is just staggering.

 

Some of the pish you read on here is indeed staggering. 

Gunn better than Gordon

[HalfCutNinja]

52 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

Some of the pish you read on here is indeed staggering. 

Gunn better than Gordon

Of course he is. That's why Gordon plays for Hearts now. I'm 100% right, and anyone who has a clue about football wouldn't find this remotely controversial as it couldn't be more obviously true.

[HalfCutNinja]

55 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

Some of the pish you read on here is indeed staggering. 

Gunn better than Gordon

Gordon's salary is £4400 per week btw. Gunn earns more than nine times that. Gunn isn't just better, he's miles better.

[HalfCutNinja]

59 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

Some of the pish you read on here is indeed staggering. 

Gunn better than Gordon £4000 (a 

At Celtic Gordon was on £20000 per week (half what Gunn earns) then when his contract ran out they offered him £4000 (a tenth of Gunn's salary) as his quality, therefore value, had declined dramatically.

You'll note he went to Hearts instead who offered £4400.

It's almost as if these people are professionals and money dictates absolutely everything in their industry and careers.

So yes, Gunn is significantly better than Gordon and has been for quite some time. That's why he plays at a higher level and gets paid considerably more.

It's not rocket science.

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

Angus Gunn gets a hard time for turning us down in the past, but if Zander Clarke had any genuine interest in the welfare of the national team he'd retire immediately. 

This would also apply to any player even remotely linked to St. Johnstone

[Satoshi]

Wages are a good indicator but they are far from full proof. Gordon received a reduced salary because of age and past injury concerns (and I assume he insisted on being first choice).

Angus Gunn is dropping down the leagues but still at a good age for a goalkeeper and seems to be competing with Tim Krul for Norwich number one spot. The championship is a ludicrously overpaid league - you would have to be out your mind to think these cloggers are better than almost every player in France, Brazil etc.

Jordan Archer would have earned tremendous money as Millwall first choice, similar to what Gordon was getting at Celtic at the time. He obviously wasn't as good and isn't even in the conversation now (despite likely earning more than at least Kelly as a championship back up).

I think it's significantly more likely that Gunns career takes the Archer trajectory Vs the Gordon trajectory. Hope I'm wrong, if he chooses to play for Scotland.

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Satoshi

[parsforlife]

6 hours ago, HalfCutNinja said:

Football is really quite simple in a lot of respects. It's a business like any other. Check this out

 

Zander Clark salary £2000 per week

Liam Kelly salary £4000 per week

Angus Gunn salary £40000 per week.

That's FORTY grand, or put another way ten times what Kelly gets and twenty times what Clark gets.

The people who make these decisions know what they're doing. They don't get it that wrong ever.

So, although I have seen all of them play, you don't need to have seen any of them play to know which one is the best of the three, and that the difference between them is quite vast.

 

I don’t know where you’ve pulled those numbers from but very confident it won’t have been an accurate source. 

[gannonball]

33 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

I don’t know where you’ve pulled those numbers from but very confident it won’t have been an accurate source. 

I know the championship can be mental for wages but there is no way the Norwich 2nd choice goalkeeper is getting 40 grand per week.

[RandomGuy.]

39 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

I don’t know where you’ve pulled those numbers from but very confident it won’t have been an accurate source. 

Hes pulled them from here, i guess, as im sure hes quoted it before then gone on a 3+ post rant about how right he is after folk tell him its made up bollocks based on Football Manager and guesswork

https://salarysport.com/football/scottish-premiership/heart-of-midlothian/

Theyre claiming Stevie May, who had signed a deal when he joined to challenge our highest earning player ever, is on £600 a week, less than our 2nd choice keeper and over £2k a week down on his previous contract. 

[BFTD]

8 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

I couldn't care less about a player refusing call-ups before if they're willing to commit now and are good enough.

This doesn't apply to Angus Gunn, because although neither Kelly or Clark are good enough to be long term options they're both better goalkeepers than him.

As far as players choosing to play for Scotland as a second-choice, most of them have been pretty committed and thrown themselves into it when we needed them. Dare I say it, most of the vacillators tend to be Scots-born and put their clumpany first.

Che Adams and Lyndon Dykes are a great bunch of lads, especially when you consider that Dykes would very likely have played at a World Cup this year if the madman hadn't been so keen to play for us!

[Empty It]

Angus Gunn better than Gordon, someone had too many Christmas shandies. 

[BFTD]

You're all arguing with a poster who spent ages outlining his belief that Mario Balotelli would be the greatest player in the world, and belittling anyone who didn't agree.

[RandomGuy.]

Gunns spoken before about the "pinnacle" of his career being the chance to earn an England cap, and effectively said he wouldnt be giving that chance up no matter what.

Hes only 26 so he'll still believe he stands a chance.

Ive no idea who we replace Gordon with, nobody else is close.

[Binos]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Gunns spoken before about the "pinnacle" of his career being the chance to earn an England cap, and effectively said he wouldnt be giving that chance up no matter what.

Hes only 26 so he'll still believe he stands a chance.

Ive no idea who we replace Gordon with, nobody else is close.

He stands no chance 

[Savage Henry]

13 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

I couldn't care less about a player refusing call-ups before if they're willing to commit now and are good enough.

This doesn't apply to Angus Gunn, because although neither Kelly or Clark are good enough to be long term options they're both better goalkeepers than him.

Not sure Clark is, but Kelly probably is the short term solution.  Kind of hoping for a Neil Sullivan type, under-the-radar, solid-if-unspectacular type to find a Scottish granny from somewhere.