BigDoddyKane Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 (edited) The main thing imo is that for the next Indy ref we get a coalition of positivity for independence and forgetting about what a shit show he delivered we should get exactly the same feeling that new labour and Blair got on the run up to winning that election. Thats the way to bring Scotland into independence on pure positivity about what we can achieve. Id get away from being overly focused on how shite the Tories are, it should be highlighted but focus too much on that and it becomes just a negative feeling in the end all round. Edited October 14, 2021 by BigDoddyKane 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 40 minutes ago, BigDoddyKane said: The main thing imo is that for the next Indy ref we get a coalition of positivity for independence and forgetting about what a shit show he delivered we should get exactly the same feeling that new labour and Blair got on the run up to winning that election. Thats the way to bring Scotland into independence on pure positivity about what we can achieve. Id get away from being overly focused on how shite the Tories are, it should be highlighted but focus too much on that and it becomes just a negative feeling in the end all round. Agree to an extent, but it’s also crucial not to let the UK side attempt to castigate independence as a pipe dream fantasy whilst they’re bastions of stability and the old order. If that means pointing out how far the UK has fallen in the last years, so be it: a mix of a positive alternative future versus sinking further into a hideous Torified fantasy of the past is probably needed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted October 14, 2021 Author Share Posted October 14, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, BigDoddyKane said: The main thing imo is that for the next Indy ref we get a coalition of positivity for independence and forgetting about what a shit show he delivered we should get exactly the same feeling that new labour and Blair got on the run up to winning that election. Thats the way to bring Scotland into independence on pure positivity about what we can achieve. Id get away from being overly focused on how shite the Tories are, it should be highlighted but focus too much on that and it becomes just a negative feeling in the end all round. A big factor in that New Labour feeling was sheer exhaustion of Tory rule which has to be highlighted again and again going forward ETA: At the same time we are rapidly approaching conditions which aren't comparable to 1997. Edited October 14, 2021 by NotThePars 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 20 hours ago, BFTD said: Certainly their most vocal supporters online don't seem terribly interested in winning new converts to the cause, holding on to soft Yes voters or, indeed, whether or not a majority of people would even vote for independence. There's a majority of indy MSPs, so Sturgeon must UDI now (as if that's what Salmond would do). Thankfully, they all appear to be moaning-faced shitebags rather than actual nutters liable to try mixing nitroglycerine in the garden shed. It's particularly striking with a lot of Alba supporters that it seems like there's absolutely no consideration of what people in the middle of the independence question (undecideds / Soft No / Soft Yes) want. It's absolutely all about them. Which kind of fits into the majority being raging middle-aged gammons. Can't remember who posted this on the Labour thread but it's similar to the hard left being absolutely raging at Tony Blair. It barely matters. It's the people in the middle who matter, the people who could be convinced to vote Labour or could be convinced to vote Tory. Every serious person understands that and every successful campaign caters to that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDoddyKane Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 (edited) The alba party in the main seem like complete loons but imo the SNP arent great either how long have they been on the go? and we still never got independence. Currently they are the best on offer in Scotland but a lot of that is due to a Tory government/Brexit that even for tories is disgraceful and an oppostion in Labour and in Scotland that are non entities. Some self evaluation by the SNP currently would go a long way to improving the Indy2 chances for going forward towards independence Edited October 15, 2021 by BigDoddyKane 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 Bit harsh, surely. They only got a majority in the diddy parliament about a decade ago, and we're still waiting for the counter to inexorably tick up to majority support for independence, as it has been for roughly my entire lifespan. I'm not sure that offering switherers a Terry's Chocolate Orange would even make much of a difference for now, and that would make me consider most things. Labour have had loads of opportunities to abolish the Lords over the past hundred years and we're still waiting. Say what you like about the Tories, they say they're going to kick some of us in the nuts for the entertainment of the rest, and they bally well do it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 A credible political leadership does not simply drum its fingers and wait for 'the polls to change'. In the 2014 campaign Yes started off at around 25% of the vote: if the SNP leadership and other Yes organisers do not have the confidence that they can push those final few yards in a second campaign, then they're not fit for purpose. That doesn't mean that they should declare UDI tomorrow. The SNP still hasn't solved the problem of getting a legitimate referendum - but neither has Alba provided an alternative. But the Sturgeonist idea of hoping that the polls shift to an unassailable lead because you're feart of losing is, by definition, a shitebag political stance. I'm therefore not surprised that some people are losing patience. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 22 hours ago, Gordon EF said: It's particularly striking with a lot of Alba supporters that it seems like there's absolutely no consideration of what people in the middle of the independence question (undecideds / Soft No / Soft Yes) want. It's absolutely all about them. Which kind of fits into the majority being raging middle-aged gammons. Can't remember who posted this on the Labour thread but it's similar to the hard left being absolutely raging at Tony Blair. It barely matters. It's the people in the middle who matter, the people who could be convinced to vote Labour or could be convinced to vote Tory. Every serious person understands that and every successful campaign caters to that. The 'people in the middle' have already had Brexit and Boris Johnson's clowncar government to digest since 2014. If they haven't made their choice by now them they are simply not attainable. It is just 'ooh I'm waiting to be convinced' posturing, by people who will stick with the status quo regardless. Any shift in 'undecided'/soft votes has already occurred. The Yes campaign should therefore not focus at all on pandering to middle class concern trolling. Instead, it should: 1) Double down on securing the Yes vote from 2014 - the lower income voters/parts of the country that are not dyed in the wool nationalist, but still gave Yes a chance in 2014. The more that the SNP tries to present independence as the respectable option, the more it risks cutting away its already existing base of Yes support. 2) Focus on raising turnout in established Yes areas. This is what killed any chance of success in 2014. There are tens if not hundreds of thousands of people in the Yes-voting areas (or close to 50-50) in 2014, who fitted the Yes demographic but did not vote at all. That is where you get enough new votes to overturn the result. Linked up to... 3) Allow for Old Father Time to have quietly lopped off a larger chunk of the core No vote. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Cherry stepping up her long goodbye.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Cherry stepping up her long goodbye.. The sooner she fucks off and joins the moon howlers the better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 The support of the 0% will be vital in the coming years. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 4 hours ago, welshbairn said: Cherry stepping up her long goodbye.. Sorry to disappoint you. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/joanna-cherry-no-intention-joining-25533889 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 26 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: Sorry to disappoint you. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/joanna-cherry-no-intention-joining-25533889 The MP salary is a bit of a hurdle for her to give up and have to rely on her lawyerly abilities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, welshbairn said: The MP salary is a bit of a hurdle for her to give up and have to rely on her lawyerly abilities. Are you implying that she's as shite a lawyer as Nicola allegedly was? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 11 minutes ago, Suspect Device said: Are you implying that she's as shite a lawyer as Nicola allegedly was? Allegedly? Spit it out man! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Allegedly? Spit it out man! There was some shite about a misconduct investigation at the end of her career but she was cleared. Much like she was cleared of any wrongdoing (except having a really shit memory) recently. Edited November 24, 2021 by Suspect Device 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 She worked for a small firm in Stirling, Bell &Craig, where she was hopeless. She was, I believe, found negligent by the Law Society regarding the handling of a clients affairs. Not horrendously serious but I think it convinced her to pack it in. Cant remember all the details but I’ll leave it to Welshbairn to investigate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Stewart Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Sorry to disappoint you. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/joanna-cherry-no-intention-joining-25533889That’s a shame, the bigoted, transphobic scumbag makes my skin crawl and the sooner she’s away from the mainstream of the “independence movement” the better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRocketman II Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 45 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said: She worked for a small firm in Stirling, Bell &Craig, where she was hopeless. She was, I believe, found negligent by the Law Society regarding the handling of a clients affairs. Not horrendously serious but I think it convinced her to pack it in. Cant remember all the details but I’ll leave it to Welshbairn to investigate. No idea about anything to do with this but can now safely assume the opposite very much likely to be the case. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said: She worked for a small firm in Stirling, Bell &Craig, where she was hopeless. She was, I believe, found negligent by the Law Society regarding the handling of a clients affairs. Not horrendously serious but I think it convinced her to pack it in. Cant remember all the details but I’ll leave it to Welshbairn to investigate. Nah, you're alright, get stuck in. She's probably the most investigated politician in the history of Scotland, so if you find some dirt well done you. Edited November 24, 2021 by welshbairn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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