Are YOU Voting for the Alba Party?

[Granny Danger]

I know it’s just a straw poll but I’m encouraged by the figures at the top of the page.

I’m more encouraged by the properly constructed polls that, other than the odd outlier, suggest the sleepy cuddles party will struggle to get a single seat.  Hopefully Salmond will then disappear into obscurity.

 

[SANTAN]

1 hour ago, Pato said:

Just a general question, outside of wars and the like, do you agree that longevity is affected by the policy choices of the governments we elect?

Yes to an extent. I think I get where you're going but i think the measurement to distinguish the difference in who's in charge and what effect they have is probably quite tenuous. There will be so many factors to include, I'm perhaps more cynical than a lot of people on the governments ability to actually enact much change, you would need to make a very convincing argument to persuade me the Tories would be to blame for life expectancy and that for this reason to maintain any moral integrity I should let go of the Union. 

[NotThePars]

You only have to look at what happened in Russia in the 90s to see the impact of who holds power is.

[SANTAN]

4 hours ago, Pato said:

Bit odd to simultaneously hold to unionism because of the damage independence might do to peoples lives and adopt the position that government policy doesn't make much of a dent in metrics we might seek to use to measure this, no?

Well that's not the entirety of why I'm a Unionist, that was just a counter point i raised against the idea that voting for the Tories in my constituency was definitively a vote against the poor. There's certainly more to my position than opposing the SNP because I think Indy would be a negative impact on the worst afflicted... 

I think supporting Indy is a massive leap of faith when talking about what would benefit those on the bottom of society and I think it's certainly at least a bad faith argument to suggest those that vote Tory to combat Indy are therefore some sort of servile immoral type of people, rather than we simply disagree on the strength of the argument.

[jakedee]

Well that's not the entirety of why I'm a Unionist, that was just a counter point i raised against the idea that voting for the Tories in my constituency was definitively a vote against the poor. There's certainly more to my position than opposing the SNP because I think Indy would be a negative impact on the worst afflicted... 
I think supporting Indy is a massive leap of faith when talking about what would benefit those on the bottom of society and I think it's certainly at least a bad faith argument to suggest those that vote Tory to combat Indy are therefore some sort of servile immoral type of people, rather than we simply disagree on the strength of the argument.

There are a few other options rather than Tory, if the Union is important.

[SANTAN]

7 hours ago, jakedee said:

8 hours ago, Stormzy said:

Well that's not the entirety of why I'm a Unionist, that was just a counter point i raised against the idea that voting for the Tories in my constituency was definitively a vote against the poor. There's certainly more to my position than opposing the SNP because I think Indy would be a negative impact on the worst afflicted... 
I think supporting Indy is a massive leap of faith when talking about what would benefit those on the bottom of society and I think it's certainly at least a bad faith argument to suggest those that vote Tory to combat Indy are therefore some sort of servile immoral type of people, rather than we simply disagree on the strength of the argument.

There are a few other options rather than Tory, if the Union is important.

My constituency is a straight up dogfight between SNP and Conservative, I've said I'm voting Labour on the list. 

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

17 hours ago, Stormzy said:

"so I don't think you're really capable of understanding" is a patronising sentence. Do you not see that? 

Saying almost all my posts about Tories are "this place man" or that I water carry for them all the time is false, the inane part was also patronising. You've also falsely said I believe my post was directly the same as the one I was responding to, I never said that nor do I believe that to be the case, this implies I don't understand the nuance even though it is you yourself that has jumped in baws deep with patronising nonsense...

I said the framing of being against baby boxes over starving kids is not exactly objective, not the overall point that was being made. I simply said I disagreed with some of the framing, that's not me not understanding something that two of you have ever so graciously spelled out to my simple mind. 

Again, more lies, I dont belittle criticism of Tories at every given chance, I sometimes do when I think the people are being unfair or hypocritical with their stance, which happens often on this forum, nobody could argue this place wasn't filled with people that often do that. 

You can believe I'm a Tory all you want, it's funnier the idea I would lie about this, I've said multiple times I dont think voting for a party makes you a supporter, considering the fact I've voted for other parties more often it seems silly to me. Personally I would only call someone a Tory if they supported the party thoroughly and were a member. You can use whatever label you see fit though, call me a Tory if you want, I'm not going to own something I disagree about though. 

The way you try and critisice my inane posts and the way I laugh and use the same language often is pretty poor form though imo. 

Is something patronizing if it's true though? Because my dude it is quite simply the year of our lord 2021 and if you're making comparisons of all the political parties open to you and thinking "it must be the Tories for me!" then no, I'd say you're either not willing or capable of making an objective comparison. Where did this concern for tone come from anyway? You're hardly the spirit of moderation on here yourself are you? 

It's fun to watch you tie yourself in knots over this issue, but the rest of this is just self-pitying rubbish to anyone who regularly reads your posts. The fact you've managed to build a worldview where voting Tory has only benevolent (no indyref) and no insidious (see the Conservative Party, whatever date you like - now) outcomes is quite impressive tbf.

[SANTAN]

22 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Is something patronizing if it's true though? Because my dude it is quite simply the year of our lord 2021 and if you're making comparisons of all the political parties open to you and thinking "it must be the Tories for me!" then no, I'd say you're either not willing or capable of making an objective comparison. Where did this concern for tone come from anyway? You're hardly the spirit of moderation on here yourself are you? 

It's fun to watch you tie yourself in knots over this issue, but the rest of this is just self-pitying rubbish to anyone who regularly reads your posts. The fact you've managed to build a worldview where voting Tory has only benevolent (no indyref) and no insidious (see the Conservative Party, whatever date you like - now) outcomes is quite impressive tbf.

Great logic. You make far too many assumptions based on nothing much for me to even attempt to deal with the subject and you quite blatantly don't read much of my posts considering all the misrepresenting you've done or perhaps you just don't have the capabilities to understand them?

I'm glad you're heavily amused at me "tying myself in knots" though most people would agree to disagree over a matter of opinion but you really think you're doing something here. Power to the people my man, keep up the good fight and don't forget to give yourself a pat on the back.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Stormzy

[SANTAN]

25 minutes ago, Pato said:

I guess there's a bit of an impasse. If you're sceptical that changes in trends of for want of a better word 'things going ok' metrics are subject to much influence from governments enacting policy then I can well understand you not seeing this kind of connection. As I've said before I don't think conservative voters in the main go into the voting booth gloating at the prospect of damaging the life chances of the folk the government should be helping, but nonetheless that's what their vote has done since 2010. I don't think it's unreasonable to say voters should own that collectively.

& on the first point you've made, you'd agree there's a heart/head split to how we all come to our views on thenation status of Scotland?

I'm sceptical because I've not seen the evidence to prove the extent such changes have. I can't blindly back something I'm unsure on. Feel free to post some of the evidence, if it's concrete then I won't be sceptical.

I'd say it is unreasonable for me to own something I disagree with. Find one post where I've supported austerity and there may be a point. The first time I voted Conservative was after austerity anyway in the Theresa May election. So I'm not owning the prior decade of policy that I never supported. If you want to show me anything policy related from after the Theresa May election that's had massive detrimental effects on the public that should cause me to feel immoral then I'll own that in my justification of supporting Unionism. I don't make moral judgments on people over the political parties they choose. People can do that to me but I'll always stick up for myself when I'm getting told I vote to starve babies or other similar nonsense. 

[SANTAN]

18 minutes ago, Pato said:

I don't think there's anything to be gained going into a discussion without first mutually accepting 'government policy has consequences on people's lives' as an uncontroversial truth.

Well considering the initial conversation was about Alba and their wrong uns that suits me as I don't have the energy to constantly try and not be viewed as immoral because of my vote.

I did accept they have an influence I just said at the offset it's a separate discussion how much influence they have and if the thrust of the discussion is about austerity then I never supported that anyway. 

[DMCs]

56 minutes ago, Pato said:

I don't think there's anything to be gained going into a discussion without first mutually accepting 'government policy has consequences on people's lives' as an uncontroversial truth.

What's the life expectancy discussion in reference to? 

I'm not sure it's very easy draw an inference from specific policies to life expectancy improvements. I mean if you look at the nations that have the highest life expectancies they often widely differ in terms of what kind of economic policies they have. The difference between Norway and South Korea in terms of government spending as a % of GDP is stark for example.

Plus there is also a trade off in terms of personal freedom to consider. The United Kingdom has the 2nd most obese population in Europe which is over 5 times the rate of Japan. But perhaps state control of the people's diet isn't ideal.

[SandyCromarty]

5 hours ago, DMCs said:

What's the life expectancy discussion in reference to? 

I'm not sure it's very easy draw an inference from specific policies to life expectancy improvements. I mean if you look at the nations that have the highest life expectancies they often widely differ in terms of what kind of economic policies they have. The difference between Norway and South Korea in terms of government spending as a % of GDP is stark for example.

Plus there is also a trade off in terms of personal freedom to consider. The United Kingdom has the 2nd most obese population in Europe which is over 5 times the rate of Japan. But perhaps state control of the people's diet isn't ideal.

Japan has the highest Bowel Anisakiasis in the Western world due to the popularity of eating raw fish, it affects a couple of million a year, Anisakiasis is an intestine infection caused by worms from raw fish leaving chemicals in the gut.

Health Swings and Roundabouts, I agree though that obesity is out of hand in the UK.

Enjoy yer Sushi.

 

[BFTD]

I remember the days when I thought those group workout sessions in Japanese factories sounded like horrific totalitarianism. Quite fancy the idea now.

Anything to knock half an hour off the working day.

[Dawson Park Boy]

33 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Japan has the highest Bowel Anisakiasis in the Western world due to the popularity of eating raw fish, it affects a couple of million a year, Anisakiasis is an intestine infection caused by worms from raw fish leaving chemicals in the gut.

Health Swings and Roundabouts, I agree though that obesity is out of hand in the UK.

Enjoy yer Sushi.

 

Don’t know about Japan - I’ll take your word for it but we certainly have an obesity crisis here in the Uk.

Just take a walk along any street in any town and what you see is horrific.

One thing  that might help is putting a much bigger emphasis on cooking skills in schools.

So many people just don’t have much idea about how or what to cook.

I am just so amazed at what my wife can do with a ham or a chicken in terms of meals and soups. So economical and just so healthy.

[madwullie]

It's just so wrong that people don't have cooking skills any more. This country is going to the dogs. 

I wonder what my wife is making for my dinner tonight 

[SandyCromarty]

14 minutes ago, madwullie said:

It's just so wrong that people don't have cooking skills any more. This country is going to the dogs. 

I wonder what my wife is making for my dinner tonight 

Try Curried Goats penis, your wife will love cooking it.

[SandyCromarty]

35 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Don’t know about Japan - I’ll take your word for it but we certainly have an obesity crisis here in the Uk.

Just take a walk along any street in any town and what you see is horrific.

One thing  that might help is putting a much bigger emphasis on cooking skills in schools.

So many people just don’t have much idea about how or what to cook.

I am just so amazed at what my wife can do with a ham or a chicken in terms of meals and soups. So economical and just so healthy.

The country is obsessed with takeaways, where once it once was a treat takeaways are nearly everyday fare.

Any given day you'll see cars queuing round the block at McDonalds alone, or in Supermarkets check how many pizzas young mothers have in their baskets at checkout.

TV fast food advertising around pre mealtimes so the kids can see them and pester their folks for a happy meal.etc.

We stopped the tobacco adverts and they need to stop these slick fast food ads.

Teach yer kids that Ronald McDonald is a fuckin bogeyman who eats children.

Parents have forgotten how to make balanced meals which include good veg. 

[Dawson Park Boy]

4 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

The country is obsessed with takeaways, where once it once was a treat takeaways are nearly everyday fare.

Any given day you'll see cars queuing round the block at McDonalds alone, or in Supermarkets check how many pizzas young mothers have in their baskets at checkout.

TV fast food advertising around pre mealtimes so the kids can see them and pester their folks for a happy meal.etc.

We stopped the tobacco adverts and they need to stop these slick fast food ads.

Teach yer kids that Ronald McDonald is a fuckin bogeyman who eats children.

Parents have forgotten how to make balanced meals which include good veg. 

Sandy - we agree. Must be an age thing.

[Granny Danger]

51 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

The country is obsessed with takeaways, where once it once was a treat takeaways are nearly everyday fare.

Any given day you'll see cars queuing round the block at McDonalds alone, or in Supermarkets check how many pizzas young mothers have in their baskets at checkout.

TV fast food advertising around pre mealtimes so the kids can see them and pester their folks for a happy meal.etc.

We stopped the tobacco adverts and they need to stop these slick fast food ads.

Teach yer kids that Ronald McDonald is a fuckin bogeyman who eats children.

Parents have forgotten how to make balanced meals which include good veg. 

Pizza is brilliant.  Young mothers can be too.

[BFTD]

I don't think I've seen Ronald McDonald* in twenty years or more. Seems like they advertise more to young adults these days.

*well, apart from this one.

Spoiler