Are YOU Voting for the Alba Party?

[madwullie]

31 minutes ago, strichener said:

Actual opposition from a party that supports Independence.  What's not to like?

I do like that. But that's not their official stance from what I can tell

Edited April 17, 2021 by madwullie

[Ira Gaines]

I find the fact that said opposition is littered with bigots to be a bit unlikeable, but hey, maybe that's a tad unreasonable?

[SANTAN]

The SNP still has wrong uns in it. It's a convenient line to go with that all the nutters and sex pests fled to Alba but it's really dangerous to believe that. 

Basically some of you that will readily vote SNP and have done previously are having a go at Alba for being filled with former SNP members.... didn't seem to matter back when they were in the SNP but now that they've jumped ship they're deplorable nutters that nobody proper could vote for.

This place thinks anything but SNP is morally repugnant. It's so transparent and unhealthy. 

 

[ayrmad]

28 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

The SNP still has wrong uns in it. It's a convenient line to go with that all the nutters and sex pests fled to Alba but it's really dangerous to believe that. 

Basically some of you that will readily vote SNP and have done previously are having a go at Alba for being filled with former SNP members.... didn't seem to matter back when they were in the SNP but now that they've jumped ship they're deplorable nutters that nobody proper could vote for.

This place thinks anything but SNP is morally repugnant. It's so transparent and unhealthy. 

 

It's even more surprising that said nutters appear to be pointing out just how many wronguns remain in positions of power within the SNP, think history will definitely show the truth to be somewhere in the middle. 

[NotThePars]

I don't see the issue with the poll

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

46 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

The SNP still has wrong uns in it. It's a convenient line to go with that all the nutters and sex pests fled to Alba but it's really dangerous to believe that. 

Basically some of you that will readily vote SNP and have done previously are having a go at Alba for being filled with former SNP members.... didn't seem to matter back when they were in the SNP but now that they've jumped ship they're deplorable nutters that nobody proper could vote for.

This place thinks anything but SNP is morally repugnant. It's so transparent and unhealthy. 

 

I mean you can look through the threads and see various people who've voted SNP slagging these same people off before they jumped ship, and people saying they are holding their nose or outright not voting for particular candidates, if you had a mind to.

It is simply not the same. There is a difference between people broadly supporting the only party likely to deliver on their fundamental political aim, while maintaining caveats and withdrawing their support when their conscience dictates; and offering support to a fringe party specifically set up by the worst elements of the former who have displayed a mixture of absolute political ineptitude and outright bigotry in the space of about a fortnight. Not that the completely uncritical SNP voter doesn't exist of course. 

[SANTAN]

4 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

I mean you can look through the threads and see various people who've voted SNP slagging these same people off before they jumped ship, and people saying they are holding their nose or outright not voting for particular candidates, if you had a mind to.

It is simply not the same. There is a difference between people broadly supporting the only party likely to deliver on their fundamental political aim, while maintaining caveats and withdrawing their support when their conscience dictates; and offering support to a fringe party specifically set up by the worst elements of the former who have displayed a mixture of absolute political ineptitude and outright bigotry in the space of about a fortnight. Not that the completely uncritical SNP voter doesn't exist of course. 

Yeah I'm aware some people have been consistent, I've not denied this or implied otherwise. 

When I made this argument regarding why I voted for the Conservatives last elections not one person defended the idea that I wasn't morally repugnant for doing so. I agree with the logic you've posted but when I used it the reaction was concerning, I can't recall your input if you had one so I can give you the benefit of the doubt with that one and rest assured you would have not joined the virtue signalling pile on.

Regarding Alba, there may be people who sincerely believe that this is the best way to achieve their goal and may be willing to hold their nose and do it for the greater cause. I don't think this makes them deplorable people. The compelling part of your point is that they're a fringe party, so they'd be acceptable if they were likely to overtake the SNP? 

I think the most valid criticism people could aim at others over supporting Alba would be the trans argument but I'm not going to go there myself. 

 

[madwullie]

TBF tho, its the other policies of the tories that are morally repugnant mate, not just the personalities. 

A vote for the tories on a single issue gives tacit support for their other abhorrent policies. A vote for some vile c**t that happens to be an snp member isn't the same thing - it's the fact they're a vile c**t that's the issue, not that you're giving tacit support to other policies the party has. 

Of course, this is complicated a bit by the fact that many of the current crop of tories are also vile c***s, but it doesn't change the thrust of the argument. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I think the day Mceleny gets voted into the Scottish Parliament is the day I start supporting getting it scrapped. 
Is any right minded person actually going to vote for the sleepy cuddles stu-anon collective? 

[SANTAN]

25 minutes ago, madwullie said:

TBF tho, its the other policies of the tories that are morally repugnant mate, not just the personalities. 

A vote for the tories on a single issue gives tacit support for their other abhorrent policies. A vote for some vile c**t that happens to be an snp member isn't the same thing - it's the fact they're a vile c**t that's the issue, not that you're giving tacit support to other policies the party has. 

Of course, this is complicated a bit by the fact that many of the current crop of tories are also vile c***s, but it doesn't change the thrust of the argument. 

It's a good point to separate the politics from the people but overall I don't agree that my vote for the Tories is morally repugnant but that's just rehashing an old argument...

It's also noteworthy how many people have said they are single issue voters regarding Indy so the wider policies doesn't apply to their train of thought much either, hence the "holding their nose" comment. I am holding my nose right now as are other people. Trying to boil either standpoint as being immoral is far too simplistic and unfair to me. Not a good state of affairs that so many people are holding their noses right enough. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Stormzy

[madwullie]

10 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

It's a good point to separate the politics from the people but overall I don't agree that my vote for the Tories is morally repugnant but that's just rehashing an old argument...

It's also noteworthy how many people have said they are single issue voters regarding Indy so the wider policies doesn't apply to their train of thought much either, hence the "holding their nose" comment. I am holding my nose right now as are other people. Trying to boil either standpoint as being immoral is far too simplistic and unfair to me. Not a good state of affairs that so many people are holding their noses right enough. 

I don't think you can really argue this without considering the policies you are supporting with your vote though. 

SNP policies are generally pretty beige. Tory policies are generally grim as f**k for anyone that isn't a rich white businessman. 

Holding your nose because you disagree with free trumpet lessons for school kids is a bit different from doing the same knowing disabled people will be discriminated against, or kids will go hungry.

[SANTAN]

4 minutes ago, madwullie said:

I don't think you can really argue this without considering the policies you are supporting with your vote though. 

SNP policies are generally pretty beige. Tory policies are generally grim as f**k for anyone that isn't a rich white businessman. 

Holding your nose because you disagree with free trumpet lessons for school kids is a bit different from doing the same knowing disabled people will be discriminated against, or kids will go hungry.

I have considered them and I've considered the alternative of not voting for them and potentially seeing Scotland break away from the UK in which I believe disadvantaged people would suffer more than they would in the status quo, which I don't try and use as a moral attack on those that support Indy.

You've not stated any direct policies either I'd be happy to address specific ones that your think are so vulgar. I think you're certainly framing the comparison in a non objective fashion. 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Stormzy

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

3 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

I have considered them and I've considered the alternative of not voting for them and potentially seeing Scotland break away from the UK in which I believe disadvantaged people would suffer more than they would in the status quo, which I don't try and use as a moral attack on those that support Indy.

You've not stated any direct policies either I'd be happy to address specific ones that your think are so vulgar. I think you're certainly framing the comparison in a non objective fashion. 

 

Yes but arguing a hypothetical and contestable "I believe that in an indy Scotland these groups would be worse off" is of course not the same as recognising the impact that Tories are having right now and have done for the past 11 years. 

You also answer almost every point about Tory corruption or policies with some inane "this place and Tories man " while water carrying for them all the time so I don't think you're really capable of understanding or willing to accept the comparison in a non objective fashion

[SANTAN]

27 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Yes but arguing a hypothetical and contestable "I believe that in an indy Scotland these groups would be worse off" is of course not the same as recognising the impact that Tories are having right now and have done for the past 11 years. 

You also answer almost every point about Tory corruption or policies with some inane "this place and Tories man " while water carrying for them all the time so I don't think you're really capable of understanding or willing to accept the comparison in a non objective fashion

What a ridiculously patronising and false post. 

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

15 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

What a ridiculously patronising and false post. 

What's patronizing or false about it? People have taken the time to explain the difference between two things to you and you've just said "nah, this is not objective" 

To use your own favourite line I just find it funny that you're forever insisting that you're holding your nose to vote Tory and yet belittle almost every criticism of them. If you're trying to insist, laughably given you admit voting for them on multiple occasions, that you are in fact not a Tory, why don't you tell us what you dislike about them? Or just own it

[SANTAN]

3 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

What's patronizing or false about it? People have taken the time to explain the difference between two things to you and you've just said "nah, this is not objective" 

To use your own favourite line I just find it funny that you're forever insisting that you're holding your nose to vote Tory and yet belittle almost every criticism of them. If you're trying to insist, laughably given you admit voting for them on multiple occasions, that you are in fact not a Tory, why don't you tell us what you dislike about them? Or just own it

"so I don't think you're really capable of understanding" is a patronising sentence. Do you not see that? 

Saying almost all my posts about Tories are "this place man" or that I water carry for them all the time is false, the inane part was also patronising. You've also falsely said I believe my post was directly the same as the one I was responding to, I never said that nor do I believe that to be the case, this implies I don't understand the nuance even though it is you yourself that has jumped in baws deep with patronising nonsense...

I said the framing of being against baby boxes over starving kids is not exactly objective, not the overall point that was being made. I simply said I disagreed with some of the framing, that's not me not understanding something that two of you have ever so graciously spelled out to my simple mind. 

Again, more lies, I dont belittle criticism of Tories at every given chance, I sometimes do when I think the people are being unfair or hypocritical with their stance, which happens often on this forum, nobody could argue this place wasn't filled with people that often do that. 

You can believe I'm a Tory all you want, it's funnier the idea I would lie about this, I've said multiple times I dont think voting for a party makes you a supporter, considering the fact I've voted for other parties more often it seems silly to me. Personally I would only call someone a Tory if they supported the party thoroughly and were a member. You can use whatever label you see fit though, call me a Tory if you want, I'm not going to own something I disagree about though. 

The way you try and critisice my inane posts and the way I laugh and use the same language often is pretty poor form though imo. 

[Scary Bear]

5 hours ago, Stormzy said:

The SNP still has wrong uns in it. It's a convenient line to go with that all the nutters and sex pests fled to Alba but it's really dangerous to believe that. 

Basically some of you that will readily vote SNP and have done previously are having a go at Alba for being filled with former SNP members.... didn't seem to matter back when they were in the SNP but now that they've jumped ship they're deplorable nutters that nobody proper could vote for.

This place thinks anything but SNP is morally repugnant. It's so transparent and unhealthy. 

 

Political parties seem to be rammed full of oddballs at the best of times. It’s just a matter of which bunch of oddballs will be calling the shots for the next 5 years.

I was willing to give Alba a chance...then I saw that video.

The Tories are a fairly odd bunch. If we’re talking a 1-5 of oddballs in Scottish terms, then the Scottish Tories are top of the league.  

 

[Highland Capital]

Got the first Alba leaflet through the door today.  No policies apart from indyref2/supermajority and a big picture of Salmond.

[Scary Bear]

3 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I think the day Mceleny gets voted into the Scottish Parliament is the day I start supporting getting it scrapped. 
Is any right minded person actually going to vote for the sleepy cuddles stu-anon collective? 

It’s not the Parliaments fault that the vast majority of Scots can’t be fucked engaging with politics most of the time. 

[SANTAN]

39 minutes ago, Pato said:

Would you, in broad brush terms, accept that there's a link between this trend line in life expectancy and the ensemble policy enacted by the governments of the countries?

I'm not going to pretend I'm clued up on any studies relating to this or how you would go about measuring such effects from each governments policies on life expectancies but I'm sure it's possible to draw some conclusions, if that's what you're asking! 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Stormzy