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Are YOU Voting for the Alba Party?


NotThePars

Who's Voting for the Alba Party?  

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3 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

What should they have done?

Simple. Don't over promise and under deliver.

"Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against it's will, we will have our say" © any Ian Blackford speech going on for 5 years. Result?

Since Brexit they have won two elections already having a mandate for indyref2 given to them from a previous election regarding Scotland being taken out of the EU. Result?

You should be telling folk that are critical of this strategy how you think doing the same thing again will somehow be different this time.

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What an odd take. Most of the recent complaints seem to have been that because we're not independent yet, we'll never be independent with the SNP in charge, but not being happy because Ian Blackford got your hopes up is very strange.

Eck had me thinking we had an outside chance in 2014, the b*****d.

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6 hours ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

What's the Alba Party's again, remind me?

1. Form Party

2. attract various SNP fruitloop defectors, ho-ho-ho

3. ????????

4. Disband after the complete humiliation of failing to win a single seat, aka doing a TIGC/ChangeUK

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5 hours ago, wirez said:

Simple. Don't over promise and under deliver.

"Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against it's will, we will have our say" © any Ian Blackford speech going on for 5 years. Result?

Since Brexit they have won two elections already having a mandate for indyref2 given to them from a previous election regarding Scotland being taken out of the EU. Result?

You should be telling folk that are critical of this strategy how you think doing the same thing again will somehow be different this time.

Opinion polls have shown a consistent, yet slim, majority for YES only over the last 12 months.  You do realise that don’t you?  Or are you simply ignoring the fact because it doesn’t suit your argument?

Maybe there are some supposed supports of Independence who would be happy with glorious defeat in another Indy Ref.

Brexit has happened, and the effects of Johnson’s cobbled together last minute ‘deal’ are now glaringly obvious.  Sturgeon has made clear the route she is going to take following a successful campaign and all Salmond, and some crackpots on here, can moan about is “well the SNP haven’t done  enough”.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

No, I mean what should they have done instead. Specifically.

They shouldn't have harped on endlessly about what they were going to do if Brexit happened then do an Alan Partridge when the Tories hunted them, anyone that thinks the status quo is bringing about a referendum is an imbecile. 

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1 hour ago, Stinky Bone said:

 

Still waiting for an answer to whether I am wrong in believing that a super majority of 86 MSPs can call a Scottish General election at any time.  You don't have to answer because it is unlikely to happen anyway.

Had to Google freeman on the land.  No, I am not one of them.  Just trying to assert my right under international law to self determination.

I believe if the Manifesto For Independence was adopted earlier, we could have been Independent by now.  I believe that if we have a pro Independence majority at our Parliament then that should be enough to begin negotiations with westminster.

Nicola's plan is anything but clear, it is very muddy. She can't decide when a referendum will be held. That indecision does not fill me with confidence. We were already told that a referendum would be held during this parliamentary term and it wasn't. Am I to trust her again? No I can't. 

... and Westminster would disagree, and then what? If they don't negotiate, attempt a UDI? 

Only by a poll of the nation that Westminster can't ignore in terms of result, either because they agreed to it in the first place, or because the result was so overwhelming they have no realistic option but to respect the result, will Scotland become independent.

That's the only way around arguments about parliamentary mathematics, and also the precedent set by Salmond and Cameron in 2012.

Arguably, the period after 2014 was always going to be a fallow period in terms of achieving a second referendum, and in more quiescent times it might have been even longer. It's been 7 years now, after Brexit and with the demographics changing in Yes favour.

Now is a good time to try and push the issue.

I get VT's point about multiple indy parties changing the nature of the conversation, but it won't be in this election. Hard to make a case for multiple indy parties in opposition to each other when both parties are drawing their support from the same cohort of voters. The reason multi indy parties has traditionally been the clincher is surely because that is the end result of a population so massively pro Indy that multiple parties could be supported by it. As it is, Yes has maybe a 1 or 2 point lead. It's still a fairly even split between Indy and Unionist parties. A large Alba or Green contingent might give it the appearance but not the substance of a population that has made its peace with Indy.

Having said that, I think the good guys would win a 2nd Indy Ref now, and the Scottish Tories constant 'stop a 2nd Indy Referendum is not the rhetoric of people who think BoJo saying no is a viable strategy.

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1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

Opinion polls have shown a consistent, yet slim, majority for YES only over the last 12 months.  You do realise that don’t you?  Or are you simply ignoring the fact because it doesn’t suit your argument?

Maybe there are some supposed supports of Independence who would be happy with glorious defeat in another Indy Ref.

Brexit has happened, and the effects of Johnson’s cobbled together last minute ‘deal’ are now glaringly obvious.  Sturgeon has made clear the route she is going to take following a successful campaign and all Salmond, and some crackpots on here, can moan about is “well the SNP haven’t done  enough”.

 

 

What is this clear route because it certainly wasn't clear what she hoped to achieve the last time with her shoulder shrug. 

Salmond won't always be at the head of Alba but it's what was needed for a new Indy party to step forward. 

I'm YES till I pop but like many many other Yessers I don't like the only show in town. 

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3 minutes ago, renton said:

... and Westminster would disagree, and then what? If they don't negotiate, attempt a UDI? 

Only by a poll of the nation that Westminster can't ignore in terms of result, either because they agreed to it in the first place, or because the result was so overwhelming they have no realistic option but to respect the result, will Scotland become independent.

That's the only way around arguments about parliamentary mathematics, and also the precedent set by Salmond and Cameron in 2012.

Arguably, the period after 2014 was always going to be a fallow period in terms of achieving a second referendum, and in more quiescent times it might have been even longer. It's been 7 years now, after Brexit and with the demographics changing in Yes favour.

Now is a good time to try and push the issue.

I get VT's point about multiple indy parties changing the nature of the conversation, but it won't be in this election. Hard to make a case for multiple indy parties in opposition to each other when both parties are drawing their support from the same cohort of voters. The reason multi indy parties has traditionally been the clincher is surely because that is the end result of a population so massively pro Indy that multiple parties could be supported by it. As it is, Yes has maybe a 1 or 2 point lead. It's still a fairly even split between Indy and Unionist parties. A large Alba or Green contingent might give it the appearance but not the substance of a population that has made its peace with Indy.

Having said that, I think the good guys would win a 2nd Indy Ref now, and the Scottish Tories constant 'stop a 2nd Indy Referendum is not the rhetoric of people who think BoJo saying no is a viable strategy.

I agree about appearance over substance for this election but there's no reason why 2 parties couldn't build towards a place of substance, it certainly can't be achieved by SNP alone. 

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Won’t be voting for Alba this election as like many I’m concerned it’s more about AS’s ego than anything else and they’ve recruited quite a few Zoomers. However like others I’m not convinced the SNP are doing enough to try and push for independence (although I believe they want higher numbers in the polls before they’ll consider something more radical as we’re only just above 50% rather than “the SNP don’t want independence” which is laughable).

The one major change I’d like to see to ensure pro independence majority is get away from this SNP 1 and 2 in every area as it’s wasted votes. Do a deal with the Greens or even Alba, ditch the SNP 1 and 2 in areas where it’s a wasted vote and urge supporters to vote for Green/Alba on the list. Yes we’ve got an Indy Majority but the less Unionists MSPs the louder the message to London and the outside world. Also the more pro independence MSPs who aren’t SNP the harder it is for MSM / Westminster to paint the Yes movement as the SNP ONLY.

We tell everyone the Yes movement isn’t one party, it’s a movement for everyone Left, Right or Centre, let’s prove it and show anti SNP voters that an independent Scotland won’t be some SNP dictatorship that many of them seem to fear it will be.

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6 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

Won’t be voting for Alba this election as like many I’m concerned it’s more about AS’s ego than anything else and they’ve recruited quite a few Zoomers. However like others I’m not convinced the SNP are doing enough to try and push for independence (although I believe they want higher numbers in the polls before they’ll consider something more radical as we’re only just above 50% rather than “the SNP don’t want independence” which is laughable).

The one major change I’d like to see to ensure pro independence majority is get away from this SNP 1 and 2 in every area as it’s wasted votes. Do a deal with the Greens or even Alba, ditch the SNP 1 and 2 in areas where it’s a wasted vote and urge supporters to vote for Green/Alba on the list. Yes we’ve got an Indy Majority but the less Unionists MSPs the louder the message to London and the outside world. Also the more pro independence MSPs who aren’t SNP the harder it is for MSM / Westminster to paint the Yes movement as the SNP ONLY.

We tell everyone the Yes movement isn’t one party, it’s a movement for everyone Left, Right or Centre, let’s prove it and show anti SNP voters that an independent Scotland won’t be some SNP dictatorship that many of them seem to fear it will be.

The issue with a formal deal with the Greens is it allows the Unionists to claim the Independence movement is gaming the system.

As has been shown a list vote for the SNP in all but two areas is a waste but I think informal ‘campaigns’ is a better approach.  It would be good if some high profile SNP supporters were to argue the 1. SNP 2. Green position.

 

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22 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

The issue with a formal deal with the Greens is it allows the Unionists to claim the Independence movement is gaming the system.

As has been shown a list vote for the SNP in all but two areas is a waste but I think informal ‘campaigns’ is a better approach.  It would be good if some high profile SNP supporters were to argue the 1. SNP 2. Green position.

 

True, but that's the nature of PR politics. I think the snp are too greedy having won that majority, and I do think they have a control issues. 

@virginton makes a good point - when you look at healthy independence movements (I'm thinking specifically of catalonia, I don't have as widespread knowledge) there are multiple pro-independence parties veering for the support of the people. This can only be a good thing imo, and if successful independence movements move through that process as he says I'm not going to argue. Point is, independence IS more than the snp - we always talk of it being a broad church as mentioned above, yet the snp (seem to) want to monopolise the supporters, and we talk of voting for other parties once it's achieved. Why can't it be achieved with the broad support of a number of indy parties in the first place.

I think of my dad who is about as tory as you could come now, but would never vote for them because of history and thatcher. Why should he have to wait for a right leaning party in an indy Scotland - why can't there be a proper rightish independence supporting party now? I understand its complicated with RW being aligned here with unionism, but there must be right leaning people who are supportive of independence. Why do they need to vote for the snp to get independence?

So yeah I do agree there's a place for more indy supporting parties in Scotland, and they could vie for the vote of indy supporters,and this would be healthy without damaging the movement. 

Which brings us to Alba - imo As doesn't give the tiniest shit about "the movement" - this party is a vehicle to keep himself relevant and to stoke his own ego, so they don't really fit in with what I've said above. Frankly if he could guarantee being on the front pages for the next decade, but that would set the indy movement back 20 years, he'd grab it with both hands. 

But looking forward, I think ut would be healthy to have more indy parties rather than snp, 2 unionists, plus hangers on on moth sides. 

Edit: I'm a fully paid up SNP member btw 

Edited by madwullie
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Might just vote for Alba on list...things need shaken up a bit tbh. Independence isn't just about SNP and other voices need to be heard. So SNP/Alba or Green.

Yeah, still voting Alba on the regional list vote.


Buzzing to collect my £3.47 winnings from Mcbookie from my £13,500,000 stake that John Lambie’s Yer Da and UDI Bone would be voting for the Yes Da Party. Just need the extra 89p winnings from my thirty four billion pound single that Baxter’s Ghost is doing the same and I’ll be able to get myself a Big Mac meal from the winnings. Delightful.

Similar to Farage’s 712 “political parties” in the last 3 years, Alba will go nowhere, and the money raised by gullible Da’s will disappear being used for anything other than its intended purpose.
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21 minutes ago, Pato said:

There was something from Ipsos Mori I think saying that Alba was actually getting a fair bit of support from grumpy right wing men who would otherwise vote for the tories. Quite surprised me.

I don't really buy the idea the SNP fracturing now would be a good thing, you only have to look at the bickering among people (not even folk in political parties, just 'personalities') who were firm allies in 2014 to see what would happen. Rather I'd like to see Labour at the least adopt neutrality on the independence issue and leave the constitutional moon howling to the tories.

Theoretically in terms of healthy democracy™ I would like to see similar from Labour, only problem for me (as an snp simp) being that they lost their support to the SNP and presumably if that support came back to them it would mean the snp losing votes, that could push them back towards no

Edited by madwullie
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1 hour ago, J_Stewart said:

 

 


Buzzing to collect my £3.47 winnings from Mcbookie from my £13,500,000 stake that John Lambie’s Yer Da and UDI Bone would be voting for the Yes Da Party. Just need the extra 89p winnings from my thirty four billion pound single that Baxter’s Ghost is doing the same and I’ll be able to get myself a Big Mac meal from the winnings. Delightful.

Similar to Farage’s 712 “political parties” in the last 3 years, Alba will go nowhere, and the money raised by gullible Da’s will disappear being used for anything other than its intended purpose.

 

 

A "I canny believe how many Da's I squeezed oot that time" type post...

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