Israel Vs Scotland 28th March

[BFTD]

3 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Remember on Friday morning you were saying: "Yes, but you have to bear in mind that I still take some pleasure from football, and retain some shred of optimism."

I'm proud of how you've matured in such a short space of time.

20% of completed fixtures is the statutory threshold for throwing in the towel. Everybody knows this.

That's why Queens finished bottom of the Championship this season. Science.

[woof!]

4 minutes ago, Thumper said:

The Venn diagram of people on this thread who think that we're basically as good as Israel, and yet have a reasonable chance of beating Denmark, has a truly horrendous overlap.

It depends if we peaked at 1-1 v Israel, or if we have scope for improvement. I don’t see many Israeli players at Liverpool, Arsenal or Man Utd and if they were we’d have been hammered. 

[No_Problemo]

Having an already qualified Denmark (hopefully) at home at a full Hampden (surely) in the last game could be an advantage. 

[munro7]

This was the best chance we’ve had of winning a group for years. Denmark & Austria are decent sides but they’re probably two of the teams you’d choose from pots 1 & 2. Instead our chances of winning the group are already dead and our chance of even getting second is already on life support.
To me it all comes down to mentality. We simply don’t set out to win games, we look to be “solid” and try and sneak an occasional goal. As a result we make every team we play against look far better than they are.

[Father Ted]

Having had time to take stock of the situation and calm down to a frenzy.

We seem to have an issue with travelling away for 2nd game of a 2/3 game schedule. This has been the case before Clarke. Yes there maybe anomalies but in general.this is the case.

Standing off teams for 30-45 minutes before imposing ourselves is an issue that must be addressed ASAP.

Marshall doesn't command his box well enough. McLaughlin does. Gordon does. As much as I want  Allan McGregor, it's not happening. We really need to look at unearthing younger promising keepers going forward 

In retrospect, Marshall did have blame for goal but Peretz really should have been shut down before he struck it.

Against the diddytrons and similar ranked nations go with 442 or 433.  Higher ranked 4231. Ditch 352.

Defensively I'm happy with O'Donnell, Hanley, Tierney and Robertson.

If we want to use Tierneys pace and attacking ability which is very good. McTominay needs to sit back for him or take turns.

Like to see Nathan Patterson get a chance at RB.

Robertson is a quality player, but might be better to give captaincy to McTominay or Tierney.

Callum McGregor offers nothing in a defensive manner in midfield and attacking wise, we have better players and with Turnbull and Gilmour on the horizon, he shouldn't get a look in. McLean is a far better option than McGregor.

Christie is a quality player, he just needs to calm down and stop trying too hard and be more clinical.

Upfront Adams/Dykes and Fraser/Christie. McBurnie should be ditched.

We have a good team we just have to apply ourselves better and play without an inferiority complex, which McTominay has touched on.

Two draws so far, is not the end of the world. Israel will give Austria a game, even draw or win. Scotland need to have positivity moving forward and results will come.

 

 

 

 

[Monkey Tennis]

51 minutes ago, VictorOnopko said:

We were poor last night, first half on particular was dreadful, but it's not over yet.

Austria are (a bit) better than us, and we basically need them to trip up against Israel. The problem is, we don't tend to get all that much luck in terms of the other games in our qualifiation groups (e.g. Ireland beating Germany in 2015 - a ludicrous result - when we'd done the job and got 4 points v Ireland and drawn away to Poland - they also beat Georgia away in the 90th minute).   I wouldn't be surprised if Austria take something off Denmark too, while we fail to do so. 

Oh ffs.  This 'luck' rubbish does us no favours.

A self serving myth.

[Monkey Tennis]

44 minutes ago, BFTD said:

20% of completed fixtures is the statutory threshold for throwing in the towel. Everybody knows this.

That's why Queens finished bottom of the Championship this season. Science.

You've got it.

The SFA need only invite George Galloway along to the Faroes match.

[BrigtonClyde]

Had been looking forward to these two games on the back of the style of performances in October, pressing high from the kick off, good energy, imposing our game on the opposition.  Unfortunately seemed to revert to type for the first 60 minutes against Austria and 45 against Israel.  Just don't get it.  Two decent sides, but you could see the difference when we did finally get our act together in both, they were forced into mistakes and we probably could have won both.  But you can't waste a large part of the game sitting too deep and really deserve much more than the draws we got.  Disappointing to say the least and will need some huge results now to have any realistic chance of either winning the group or making the playoff.  We do have the players but they need to change that mentality.    

[Lobby Dossar]

1 hour ago, yorkshirepud said:

Can Stevie Clarke please take his negative, defensive tactics and shove them up his arse? He set the team up to avoid defeat and only had a go in both games when they went behind. They have ended up with 2 points so even picking up a win and a defeat would have been better. Last night's game was just awful where they dropped back into a defensive structure whenever Israel got the ball. In that first half they sat 30-35 yards out and just let Israel pass the ball around and through them, with absolutely no pressing. It's not as if we haven't played Israel recently and didn't recognise the threat came from Dasa, Zahavi and Solomon so to set up in a structure that allowed them so much time and space was bordering on criminal. For f&%" sake Clarke, have a go at winning games.

Agree with a lot of what your saying.

if you give any footballer time and space, and time to set themselves 25 yards from goal, as we did with all 3 goals that we lost in these 2 games you will get punished. The shutting down and pressing from our midfielders was criminal at this level of international football, it is just not acceptable and you will get punished as we eventually were.

[VictorOnopko]

8 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Oh ffs.  This 'luck' rubbish does us no favours.

A self serving myth.

Not really.  It's fairly self-evident that after a slow start, we need some other results to go our way.  If Denmark perform as expected as top seeds and Austria don't drop points to Israel or the minnows, then we can't finish 2nd unless we beat them in Vienna or do significantly better against the Danes than them (very unlikely in both cases).  Other matches matter as well as our own. Every team which isn't romping a group needs luck.

People often cite losing to Georgia in 2015 as the reason we didn't qualify.  But if Germany (the world champions) had beaten Ireland in Dublin, we would have been in the playoffs.

[Lobby Dossar]

4 hours ago, Savage Henry said:

Either play Tierney at left back or on the bench.  Right now, he’s in better form than Robertson for club and country.  

Right back is a different position entirely, and as long as you don’t want him to attack at all, he’s fine defensively.  If this guy Patterson at Rangers is any good whatsoever, I’d be getting him in the squad pronto.  O’Donnell simply isn’t up to scratch, handsome charmer that he is.

Won’t be able to get him into the squad as he’s about to get suspended for a least 8 games 

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

It will be interesting to see what squad changes happen after the euros.  There could be a pretty decent turnover by September if some of the better young players are getting game time.  For all the good players we've got there's still probably 10 players in there who are squad fillers and need replaced with better if we are going to move up another level

[Monkey Tennis]

Steve Clarke bugged me in the press conference last night, when he refused to say whether these were points dropped, or we were now relying on producing big wins, hiding instead behind rubbish about not being able to predict the future.

It's an extension of refusing to call either game 'must win' or to provide points targets.  Strahan used to play similar wee games.

I'm not pretending that it was necessarily decisive, but it annoys me because it insults the intelligence.  It also bugs me because I think it allows for an abdication of responsibility for him and the players.  It's done as an act of self preservation, should the team fail to deliver and I'm sick of hearing it.

The enormous goodwill that accompanied him into the job, and was then unleashed with qualification, will recede fast at this rate.

[Monkey Tennis]

6 minutes ago, VictorOnopko said:

Not really.  It's fairly self-evident that after a slow start, we need some other results to go our way.  If Denmark perform as expected as top seeds and Austria don't drop points to Israel or the minnows, then we can't finish 2nd unless we beat them in Vienna or do significantly better against the Danes than them (very unlikely in both cases).  Other matches matter as well as our own. Every team which isn't romping a group needs luck.

People often cite losing to Georgia in 2015 as the reason we didn't qualify.  But if Germany (the world champions) had beaten Ireland in Dublin, we would have been in the playoffs.

That's not frigging luck.

Ireland took 4 points from Germany and Poland took 3.  We took none.  We rode our luck plenty in that campaign, benefiting from own goals and surviving big moments due to the woodwork.  

I'm not saying we were especially fortunate, but it's absolute nonsense to suggest we were robbed.

[The Moonster]

10 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Steve Clarke bugged me in the press conference last night, when he refused to say whether these were points dropped, or we were now relying on producing big wins, hiding instead behind rubbish about not being able to predict the future.

It's an extension of refusing to call either game 'must win' or to provide points targets.  Strahan used to play similar wee games.

I'm not pretending that it was necessarily decisive, but it annoys me because it insults the intelligence.  It also bugs me because I think it allows for an abdication of responsibility for him and the players.  It's done as an act of self preservation, should the team fail to deliver and I'm sick of hearing it.

The enormous goodwill that accompanied him into the job, and was then unleashed with qualification, will recede fast at this rate.

He's hardly going to come and say "Aye, we've pretty much fucked our chances now and need to beat Denmark twice and hope they fall apart" is he? I get that it's frustrating but there's not really much else they can say in these scenarios without heaping pressure on themselves or the players. 

[VictorOnopko]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That's not frigging luck.

Ireland took 4 points from Germany and Poland took 3.  We took none.  We rode our luck plenty in that campaign, benefiting from own goals and surviving big moments due to the woodwork.  

I'm not saying we were especially fortunate, but it's absolute nonsense to suggest we were robbed.

I didn't say we were robbed - and I am glad you agree that we weren't "especially fortunate".   My main point here is that we do now need luck with other results in this group.  Stating the obvious - but we had started the campaign with two wins, the matches between the 2nd and 4th seeds in the group wouldn't now be so important to us.

[Monkey Tennis]

3 minutes ago, VictorOnopko said:

I didn't say we were robbed - and I am glad you agree that we weren't "especially fortunate".   My main point here is that we do now need luck with other results in this group.  Stating the obvious - but we had started the campaign with two wins, the matches between the 2nd and 4th seeds in the group wouldn't now be so important to us.

That is indeed stating the obvious.

That's not all you said though.  You said "The problem is, we don't tend to get all that much luck in terms of the other games in our qualifiation groups."

It's rubbish.  

[Snobot]

In all the recent shite performances, we have been unbelievably passive and allowed the opposition to stroll up to the half way line largely unopposed. Compare that to how teams press us 30 yards from our goal. Any time we up the intensity we immediately look like a better team. Is that on the players for not following instructions or a tactical decision? I don’t know but on the basis that pretty much everyone can see it you’d hope SC would do something about it.

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

1 minute ago, Snobot said:

In all the recent shite performances, we have been unbelievably passive and allowed the opposition to stroll up to the half way line largely unopposed. Compare that to how teams press us 30 yards from our goal. Any time we up the intensity we immediately look like a better team. Is that on the players for not following instructions or a tactical decision? I don’t know but on the basis that pretty much everyone can see it you’d hope SC would do something about it.

The press is vitally important, especially when Jack is missing as he does a huge amount of the dirty work in there.

Fraser said in his interview that they didn't get it right in the first half last night, which might suggest they weren't being instructed to sit off, but who knows.

We certainly look much better when we do engage from the front, that's for sure

[rainbowrising]

50 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Oh ffs.  This 'luck' rubbish does us no favours.

A self serving myth.

He seems to have missed the 'luck' we had in the first half when we could easily have been down by 2 or 3

Edited March 29, 2021 by rainbowrising