Scottish Parliamentary Elections May 2021

[Donathan]

It's weird that the Tories are pushing the line that independence isn't in the competence of the parliament, they clearly think people are thick enough to forget the UK Government writing to the European commission to ask to leave. If this is their great plan then they really are useless defenders of the Union.

I mean not really. The EU has a system (article 50) whereby individual states can choose to leave. The UK has no such system, rightly or wrongly. Legally Scotland is no more of a nation than Bavaria or the Canary Islands

[G51]

2 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

He’s not looking backwards. Just correcting the wrong assumption , often espoused on here,that we Scots were forced into colonialism by the evil English. The Scots were at the forefront of the ever expanding British Empire whether it was in Asia, Africa or the Americas. At one time I visited Jamaica regularly and the number of people with Scottish names is quite remarkable.

The East India Company had a strong Scottish influence.

hm, yes some good points...

2 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Yes, Scotland was very much to the fore in the Empire, which, by the way brought many benefits to the colonised countries. If everything was so bad, why would they be in the Commonwealth?

We were colonised by the Romans but they brought many benefits. Just part of world civilisation.

Can’t understand why so many people think we need to go around apologising for things which happened, and were considered normal, centuries ago?

ah.

[Salt n Vinegar]

10 minutes ago, NUMBER 7 said:

 

The number of seats are an irrelevance. It’s the numbers voting one way or another that is important.

Still only 32% of the electorate voted for Pro Indy parties.  The 36% that didn’t vote and in past Scottish elections that has been nearer 50% that didn’t vote can’t just be forgotten if Independence became a reality.

 

Utter carp.  In elections to parliaments, votes mean nothing unless you convert them into seats. Seats for one party or for combinations of parties, form administrations in Parliaments. The total of votes certainly matters in a referendum, but that is demonstrably not what sas held on Thursday.  As I recall the current PM leads a government that was elected on less than 44% of the electorate.  Boot them out then? 

Anyone who agrees with your first point would have a hell of a job working out how any Westminster government has ever done anything.  There might have been a Westminster government elected on a majority of the vote, but I can't remember one. That lack of your type of electoral mandate at Westminster hasn't stopped food banks, the "reorganisation" of the benefits system, the "rape clause", Trident and that little irritant, Brexit. 

[101]

2 minutes ago, Donathan said:

I mean not really. The EU has a system (article 50) whereby individual states can choose to leave. The UK has no such system, rightly or wrongly. Legally Scotland is no more of a nation than Bavaria or the Canary Islands

 

 

But the EU grant said article, it is EU legislation not UK legislation.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I see the Unionists are trying to play the "same as 2016" card.

Apart from fact that the SNP have increased both seats and share of vote, they ignore one fundamental difference.

In 2016, there were not 2 parties standing on a manifesto committing to IndyRef2. That commitment was absolutely explicit this time in the manifestos of the SNP and the Greens.

There clearly is a mandate to push for IndyRef2.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

1 minute ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Utter carp.  In elections to parliaments, votes mean nothing unless you convert them into seats. Seats for one party or for combinations of parties, form administrations in Parliaments. The total of votes certainly matters in a referendum, but that is demonstrably not what sas held on Thursday.  As I recall the current PM leads a government that was elected on less than 44% of the electorate.  Boot them out then? 

Anyone who agrees with your first point would have a hell of a job working out how any Westminster government has ever done anything.  There might have been a Westminster government elected on a majority of the vote, but I can't remember one. That lack of your type of electoral mandate at Westminster hasn't stopped food banks, the "reorganisation" of the benefits system, the "rape clause", Trident and that little irritant, Brexit. 

This. 

It's getting sickening listening to those desperate BritNat fruitloops trying to say that....uniquely.....we should ignore the parliamentary system in Scotland because it doesn't suit them and introduce some new metric, which does. 

What's the fucking point in having these elections if it's the case that winning seats apparently counts for f**k all because some people don't like the results ?

I've never ONCE heard any of these Yoons whine about the fact that the Tories pushed through a hard Brexit despite having the support of only around 35% of the total UK electorate in the last GE.

Nope, it was accepted that in the achaic FPTP system the UK uses, the Tories won the largest number of seats and have the right to govern. It looks very much like different standards are going to be applied to the SNP's crushing victory in Scotland this week. 

f**k them. 

[sparky88]

15 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

 

One to be voted for in the parliament that is sovereign over such matters (Westminster)

I see two ways that could happen:

1. A UK government is elected on a manifesto that includes a pledge of Scottish independence (not happening)

2. The SNP manage to leverage a referendum as a concession in a hung Parliament scenario (more likely)

Simply put, as long as this remains a reserved power then the entire UK electorate is sovereign over Scotland (and England/Wales/NI). Westminster would need to vote a referendum for one to be held legally.

This  probably won't happen directly but there's maybe scope for it to happen as part of further devolution to English regions and Wales. The 1980 Quebec Referendum happened because the ruling Liberal Party manifesto contained a commitment to negotiating with provinces on constitutional matters (cheers wikipedia).

Johnson's offer of faciliting workign together as part of 'Team UK' is an obvious trap. But Sturgeon probably has to go along with it. If there's a bit of friction there (perhaps manufactured by the UK Govt) then I could see Johnson calling a referendum immediately with a 6 week campaign and I suspect that wouldn't suit Yes.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

7 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Thanks, M8.

Holyrood stopped being relevant in 2007 and is now no more than a Natter echo chamber.  That a smart bloke like you can't see how fucking useless 14 years (plus an additional 5) of the imbicilic secessionists are then no wonder Scotland is fucked.

On the contrary, 2007 is when Holyrood finally became a proper legislative body and stopped being the personal fiefdom of the Labour party, breaking their career progression ladder of local authority > Holyrood > Westminster > lobbyist for arms manufacturers or tobacco companies. It's not all been great, but there's been some popular, successful and beneficial legislation passed that has improved the lives of the people who live here. I understand that you may be behind the curve on this, living down in Tory Bucks.

There's a reason the SNP have had 14 years (plus an additional 5) and it's not all to do with waving flags, although that helps. It's down to the fingers in the ears, blind unionism which is, fortunately, the majority view of those opposed to self determination, including yourself. The inability to see that Westminster sets the bar so fucking low, that Sturgeon and the SNP barely have to step over it. The bedroom tax, the rape clause, the status of EU nationals post Brexit and even just this week, calling out racists and fascists. All open goals and easy tap ins for a competent politician like Sturgeon.

 

[Crùbag]

The great Stephane Adam.

 

[BigDoddyKane]

whats the situation in Quebec nowadays is there any demand for independence still or has it run of steam

[edinabear]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

One short of an outright majority, increase seat numbers, increase share of vote and all in the face of tactical voting.  All after 14 years in government.

Oh, and a clear and significant pro-Independence majority in Holyrood.

 

When is your indyref happening? I've never heard of a majority being 49% before but you bash on with your freeeeeedom mate. 

[Granny Danger]

I’m not sure who I despise more.  The former Labour voters in England who would prefer to now vote for the corrupt clown Johnson, or the Scottish Labour voters who would ‘lend’ their vote to the Tories to stop a pro-Independence candidate.

 

[sparky88]

3 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I’m not sure who I despise more.  The former Labour voters in England who would prefer to now vote for the corrupt clown Johnson, or the Scottish Labour voters who would ‘lend’ their vote to the Tories to stop a pro-Independence candidate.

 

I get like that about Brexit voters.

[Crùbag]

4 minutes ago, edinabear said:

When is your indyref happening? I've never heard of a majority being 49% before but you bash on with your freeeeeedom mate. 

Yes you have. The Brexit ref was called on around 36% of the vote.

At least Scotland's democracy is roughly representative. In UK, a party can dicate on less than 40% of the popular vote.

[Dawson Park Boy]

On a more general point, and it’s what the wings and alba people go on about.

Does the current SNP, and in particular Nicola Sturgeon, actually want a referendum and indeed independence?

Possibly wishful thinking on my part, but I don’t think they do.

So much easier to sit in Holyrood , receive swathes of money from Westminster under Barnett, blame everything that goes wrong on Boris and receive good pay and perks. Becoming an SNP politician is just like Labour of yesteryear. Pick the party which is most likely to get me a seat and you’re in. Do these people have the hunger, the appetite for the fight? I doubt it. We are in the age of the professional politician and the party is irrelevant. Why rock the boat?

[SandyCromarty]

Had a look at the total vote numbers for the three main parties yesterday;

                                                          SNP                                                 TORY                                                       LABOUR

Constituency Votes            1,291.204                                         592,518                                                       584392

Regional Votes                     1,094.578                                          637,131                                                       488819

Total Votes                              2,385578                                         1,229.649                                                    1,073.211

The Scottish based SNP totaled more votes than the other two English based  Branch Parties put together.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

5 minutes ago, edinabear said:

When is your indyref happening? I've never heard of a majority being 49% before but you bash on with your freeeeeedom mate. 

You seem very confused about what a majority in parliament means. 

Probably because you're thick as shit. 

[Crùbag]

4 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I’m not sure who I despise more.  The former Labour voters in England who would prefer to now vote for the corrupt clown Johnson, or the Scottish Labour voters who would ‘lend’ their vote to the Tories to stop a pro-Independence candidate.

 

That is sickening. So-called Labour-minded voters voting for racist corrupt Boris. The flipside is that the remaining Labour voters may be more likely to vote Yes in Inydref2.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 minutes ago, BigDoddyKane said:

whats the situation in Quebec nowadays is there any demand for independence still or has it run of steam

Issue has been parked for now with a devomax type party dominating provincial politics attracting support from both sides of the independence question. The SNP has demographics heading in its direction in a way that wasn't as clear cut in Quebec and a lot of Quebec nationalism is driven by language related politics so drawing parallels is probably foolish.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

1 minute ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

On a more general point, and it’s what the wings and alba people go on about.

Does the current SNP, and in particular Nicola Sturgeon, actually want a referendum and indeed independence?

Possibly wishful thinking on my part, but I don’t think they do.

So much easier to sit in Holyrood , receive swathes of money from Westminster under Barnett, blame everything that goes wrong on Boris and receive good pay and perks. Becoming an SNP politician is just like Labour of yesteryear. Pick the party which is most likely to get me a seat and you’re in. Do these people have the hunger, the appetite for the fight? I doubt it. We are in the age of the professional politician and the party is irrelevant. Why rock the boat?

Another Yoon straw man. 

A second independence referendum WILL be held at a point decided by the Scottish government. That may be in 6 months, it may be 6 years. In the meantime, they'll get on with governing.