Scottish Parliamentary Elections May 2021

[African Sunset]

2 hours ago, pawpar said:

Voting Alba was not a stupid fucking idea. Voting SNP for the list vote in Central Scotland was a monumentally fucking stupid idea. Or as I call them secret tories. There is a reason why unionists win more things under D'Hondt. Lab votes tory or LD when they cannot win. Same for Tories and LD. Whereas SNP thinks it can still win. Absolutely fucking deluded. Asking people to vote SNP 1 and 2 cost them an overall majority. Sturgeon should have said to vote SNP1 and greens 2. Both Labour and tory said vote for any other party. The idiots that run the SNP should have said SNP 1 greens 2. Much as I hate unionists they got their tactics right. The SNP did not.

 

The problem with doing that though is you are essentially saying to the voters that we know we are going to win the constituency so vote green on the list. It doesn't always work out well for a party to take votes for granted as yhe voters will often turn round and kick them in the baws. If that happens and they don't have the numbers on the list to pick it back up then it's a net loss for them. No party wants that so it's easy to see why the SNP stick with both votes SNP.

[Scary Bear]

7 hours ago, GordonS said:

Do you want to have another go at that or are you getting sleepy?

Too sleepy (no cuddles) so I took my own advice and went to bed. I was replying to another poster about how I see Nicola.

I don’t see her to leading an armed insurrection. Did you got to bed or stay on here?

If anything, the end result will be the Tories getting the troops in to quell the rebellion of these vile separatists.

[Mr Heliums]

23 minutes ago, African Sunset said:

The problem with doing that though is you are essentially saying to the voters that we know we are going to win the constituency so vote green on the list. It doesn't always work out well for a party to take votes for granted as yhe voters will often turn round and kick them in the baws. If that happens and they don't have the numbers on the list to pick it back up then it's a net loss for them. No party wants that so it's easy to see why the SNP stick with both votes SNP.

Exactly. And aside from the hubris involved in suggesting people put their second vote elsewhere, the SNP have to promote 'Both Votes SNP' because if voters get into the habit of voting for another party on the regional lists, and the SNP constituency vote drops a bit, they could be back to a handful of MSPs. They need the List vote as security. It's not perhaps in the best interests of independence, but the SNP are responsible only to themselves, not the entire independence movement. Voters can of course make their own decisions based on what they think will bring the best result./

Edited May 8, 2021 by Mr Heliums

[Romeo]

Naga on the BBC this morning suggesting that not winning 2 target seats means people don't want independence and the unionists made it happen. As for the 3 gained seats, this means nothing apparently.

[Juanhourjoe]

10 minutes ago, Romeo said:

Naga on the BBC this morning suggesting that not winning 2 target seats means people don't want independence and the unionists made it happen. As for the 3 gained seats, this means nothing apparently.

Over on sky. Wifie, mentioning pro indy majority anyway with the greens. It's a small thing, though correct. But glossing over stuff like this by other national presenters, makes them look like they really don't know anything about it. And see Scotland as completely foreign to them.

BTW. At this point I think Naga is just saying things to seem controversial. 

[Monkey Tennis]

The narrative that missing out on an overall majority by a whisker in a system explicitly designed to prevent such a thing, represents a failure, is bonkers, but persuasive if not examined.

It's infuriating.

 

Hartlepool represents a Tory triumph due to FPTP.  Viewed through that lens, the scale of the SNP victory would be staggering.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

2 minutes ago, Juanhourjoe said:

 

BTW. At this point I think Naga is just saying things to seem controversial. 

Probably this. 

I just turned on the BBC news at the point where their political commentator in Scotland was making a big point about an independence majority.  So it's not being ignored. 

There's no doubt however that a lack of SNP majority gives Yoons somewhere to plant their flag. That can't be ignored either. 

[sergie's no1 fan]

Naga on the BBC this morning suggesting that not winning 2 target seats means people don't want independence and the unionists made it happen. As for the 3 gained seats, this means nothing apparently.

And there will be folk out there swallowing this guff.

[Binos]

23 minutes ago, Romeo said:

Naga on the BBC this morning suggesting that not winning 2 target seats means people don't want independence and the unionists made it happen. As for the 3 gained seats, this means nothing apparently

If we operated a first past the post system it would be the biggest majority of any legitimate parliament on earth

[J_Stewart]

Anyone that thinks Alba was a stupid idea is an imbecile, leaving aside those involved in Alba, having 80 or 90 Pro Indy seats would have made a mockery of our current set up, that's probably the best way of winning over the large chunk of soft NO's in Scotland. 
70 to 59 or similar still looks close enough for most folk to swallow the Unionist bullshit. 

You can’t “leave aside those involved” when discussing the fallacy of the Alba party, because it’s the entire reason that they’re an unvoteable laughing stock, and people have been loudly pointing this out since their inception.

You can be of the belief that a theoretical third major party as an option on the list would be a good thing, whilst also being aware that Alba, its inhabitants and the target audience of the party are a detriment to the independence movement. A party created purely to assuage an old man’s ego / thirst for revenge and filled with lunatics and bigots is only going to turn off anyone that isn’t a Yes Da.

Alba, the party that actually exists, was a shite idea, and that’s very much being reflected in their vote share.

[Binos]

4 minutes ago, J_Stewart said:

 

You can’t “leave aside those involved” when discussing the fallacy of the Alba party, because it’s the entire reason that they’re an unvoteable laughing stock, and people have been loudly pointing this out since their inception.

You can be of the belief that a theoretical third major party as an option on the list would be a good thing, whilst also being aware that Alba, its inhabitants and the target audience of the party are a detriment to the independence movement. A party created purely to assuage an old man’s ego / thirst for revenge and filled with lunatics and bigots is only going to turn off anyone that isn’t a Yes Da.

Alba, the party that actually exists, was a shite idea, and that’s very much being reflected in their vote share.

 

They will soon not exist

[Mr Heliums]

13 minutes ago, J_Stewart said:

Alba, the party that actually exists, was a shite idea, and that’s very much being reflected in their vote share.

 

Don't know if the party itself was a bad idea on the face of it: a second, dedicated, indy party made sense to hoover up list votes (or to provide an alternative to the SNP) was a good idea in many ways. And expanding the independence umbrella so it's not tied in with the SNP would be a plus too. 

Their mistake was was in fronting it with a man who'd emerged not totally unscathed from fairly serious charges, who seemed to refuse to acknowledge wrongdoing, and who used an 'anti-woke' agenda to pull in some pretty unsavoury supporters. Not sure how they thought that was going to fly.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Mr Heliums

[renton]

12 minutes ago, Binos said:

If we operated a first past the post system it would be the biggest majority of any legitimate parliament on earth

Was going to post exactly this. The Unionist narrative about blocking a majority depends on the list, therefore a pro Indy majority derived from the list is no less legitimate than one purely from FPTP constituencies.

 

 

[Granny Danger]

50 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

Anyone that thinks Alba was a stupid idea is an imbecile, leaving aside those involved in Alba, having 80 or 90 Pro Indy seats would have made a mockery of our current set up, that's probably the best way of winning over the large chunk of soft NO's in Scotland. 

70 to 59 or similar still looks close enough for most folk to swallow the Unionist bullshit. 

^^^ desperate for a sleepy cuddle.

[ayrmad]

13 minutes ago, J_Stewart said:

 

You can’t “leave aside those involved” when discussing the fallacy of the Alba party, because it’s the entire reason that they’re an unvoteable laughing stock, and people have been loudly pointing this out since their inception.

You can be of the belief that a theoretical third major party as an option on the list would be a good thing, whilst also being aware that Alba, its inhabitants and the target audience of the party are a detriment to the independence movement. A party created purely to assuage an old man’s ego / thirst for revenge and filled with lunatics and bigots is only going to turn off anyone that isn’t a Yes Da.

Alba, the party that actually exists, was a shite idea, and that’s very much being reflected in their vote share.

 

The status quo simply won't cut it, whilst we had the results to back up our rhetoric on policy it may have been enough, not now, Nicola deflects and obfuscates with the best of them now whilst throwing out a bauble or 2 to distract the masses. 

[Granny Danger]

After 14 years in government the percentage share is up and we’re winning seats from other parties.  No serious political commentator can spin that as a failure.

 

[ayrmad]

4 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

^^^ desperate for a sleepy cuddle.

Laughable given your record of disembarking after ships have already been scuttled. 

A blowtorch couldn't mark your neck. 

[Granny Danger]

4 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

Laughable given your record of disembarking after ships have already been scuttled. 

A blowtorch couldn't mark your neck. 

Disembarking after a ship has been scuttled would be an eminently sensible thing to do.  You’d probably be standing on board with Wee Eck convincing yourself that everything was going to turn out differently.

 

[sparky88]

6 minutes ago, ThatBoyRonaldo said:

Looking like a strong result for the good guys. Terrific in particular to see the SNP pull off strong wins in east Lothian and brexity places in the north east. 

As numerous posters have said, talk of an SNP majority has always been irrelevant. The Scottish Parliament will vote for a referendum via a majority which has been gained without the need to manipulate the voting system.

Terrific also to see Alba crash and burn. Get it right fucking up them. As our friends in the Labour party say, let cowards flinch and traitors sneer. The independence movement will remain inclusive and left wing.

Alba Party weren't ( I think it's nearly safe to refer to them in the past tense)  left or right wing. They were socially conservative though. The independence movement needs an economically right wing, socially liberal party. Without one , I don't think independence can be won. The currency question is just a proxy argument for 'how will Scotland cope financially ' which a right wing socioeconomic party might help to dampen fears of well off voters. 

The SNP (and independence movement more generally) is only left wing because the Labour vote is much softer (see Hartlepool).

[Derry Alli]

Very, very saddening to see the result in Dundee West.