Scottish Parliamentary Elections May 2021

[GordonS]

3 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Some folk don't like the tactical voting stuff, which is made even more complicated by the combined FPTP/PR system, but when the electoral system installed by Westminster in the Act was designed to keep the SNP from obtaining a majority, a nationalist has to do what a nationalist has to do. 

IIRC the electoral system was chosen by the Consultative Steering Group, a Scottish cross-party and civil society group; it was never intended to prevent the SNP from getting a majority; it would have been in Labour's interests to make it possible for them to win a majority (as they could in Wales, which has a less proportional system) as it never looked like they would lose to the SNP; and the Scottish Parliament is now in charge of the system for its own elections.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

As imperfect as it is, I'm a big fan of the way Scotland elects MSP's. 

We have a far fairer and more representative system than Westminster, which is probably the most un-representative parliament in the western world. The FPTP system which allows one party (almost always the Tories) to control the country with around 35% of the vote is a corrupt crock of utter shit. 

Even the USA has a fair set of checks and balances built into its government, which generally stops one man and/or party from having the kind of unfettered, unchecked control that the likes of Johnson and the Tories have. 

No wonder these fuckers (and Labour are just as bad) will never change it.  Give me Holyrood every time.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Bob Mahelp

[Salt n Vinegar]

23 minutes ago, GordonS said:

IIRC the electoral system was chosen by the Consultative Steering Group, a Scottish cross-party and civil society group; it was never intended to prevent the SNP from getting a majority; it would have been in Labour's interests to make it possible for them to win a majority (as they could in Wales, which has a less proportional system) as it never looked like they would lose to the SNP; and the Scottish Parliament is now in charge of the system for its own elections.

I suppose that the motives could be up for debate, but the Scotland Act 1988 establishing the Scottish Parliament and the FPTP/PR system is an Act of the UK Parliament and as such cannot be amended by Holyrood.  If it could be amended at Holyrood I suspect that things like the list of reserved powers might have received some Holyrood attention by now. 

Edit... It strikes me that a Parliament steadfastly opposed to PR has a bit of a cheek insisting that the devolved Parliaments/Assemblies use PR and denies those bodies the right to have an electoral system of their choosing. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Salt n Vinegar

[Granny Danger]

12 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

As imperfect as it is, I'm a big fan of the way Scotland elects MSP's. 

We have a far fairer and more representative system than Westminster, which is probably the most un-representative parliament in the western world. The FPTP system which allows one party (almost always the Tories) to control the country with around 35% of the vote is a corrupt crock of utter shit. 

Even the USA has a fair set of checks and balances built into its government, which generally stops one man and/or party from having the kind of unfettered, unchecked control that the likes of Johnson and the Tories have. 

No wonder these fuckers (and Labour are just as bad) will never change it.  Give me Holyrood every time.

FPTP is indefensible.  No one can justify such large majorities on less than 50% of the popular vote.

It has been abandoned for election to every political body in the U.K., and of course for E.U. Elections before we left, other than Westminster.

[Detournement]

3 hours ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

I mean yes but GD and Invergowrie are right, calling politicians from any party careerists or a cabal is a bit daft, as it applies to all of them. You can be uninspired by or criticize politicians while admitting that's the case

There are non careerist politicians. Not many but they are there. 

[MONKMAN]

When do the postal ballots need to be in by? Mine arrived at home today, but I’m working away for another couple of weeks.

[SandyCromarty]

2 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Ive been criticising the standard of politician across the board, thats reasonable, there are very few examples of excellent politicians, even the ones who have positive public images still have legacies of failure, its easiest to attribute this to the current party of government given their failure in a number of areas but it’s not singularly their failing. 

It's how you interpret the role of a politician, I found the following;

What defines a politician?

1 : a person experienced in the art or science of government especially : one actively engaged in conducting the business of a government. 2a : a person engaged in party politics as a profession. 

[SandyCromarty]

Just now, MONKMAN said:

When do the postal ballots need to be in by? Mine arrived at home today, but I’m working away for another couple of weeks.

SNP voters can get them in as soon as you can, tory voters must post their's on the 8th of May.

[Salt n Vinegar]

1 minute ago, MONKMAN said:

When do the postal ballots need to be in by? Mine arrived at home today, but I’m working away for another couple of weeks.

I think the deadline is 10.00pm on election day. 

[invergowrie arab]

8 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

That's my postal votes sent in.

Was planning to give both votes to the Greens before realising that the Greens are only standing in the list area.

So it's SNP and Greens then for me and probably everyone else in my family.

That's how you run a household. Good man 

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

16 minutes ago, Detournement said:

There are non careerist politicians. Not many but they are there. 

Oh aye, meant to say almost all there. Absolutely right but few and far between

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

9 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

That's my postal votes sent in.

Was planning to give both votes to the Greens before realising that the Greens are only standing in the list area.

So it's SNP and Greens then for me and probably everyone else in my family.

 

[Detournement]

4 minutes ago, Pato said:

SNP in full on c**t chicken* mode, glorious:

 

*for those of you not extremely online enough to understand the jargon:

Is it just Public Sector workers?

[oneteaminglasgow]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

Is it just Public Sector workers?

Looks like it, says they’ll lobby the U.K. Gov to make it apply to all as it’s reserved. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

9 minutes ago, Pato said:

SNP in full on c**t chicken* mode, glorious:

 

*for those of you not extremely online enough to understand the jargon:

Not getting this, ive got the ability to authorise compassionate leave for people under ‘special leave’ fully paid, is it the case in other public sector workplaces that this wouldnt happen? Its good to have these things enshrined in law but any manager who would actually expect someone back at their work in those circumstances is an absolute arsehole of the highest order. 

[SweeperDee]

Not getting this, ive got the ability to authorise compassionate leave for people under ‘special leave’ fully paid, is it the case in other public sector workplaces that this wouldnt happen? Its good to have these things enshrined in law but any manager who would actually expect someone back at their work in those circumstances is an absolute arsehole of the highest order. 

Arseholes of that magnitude are more common than you think.

[GordonS]

49 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

I suppose that the motives could be up for debate, but the Scotland Act 1988 establishing the Scottish Parliament and the FPTP/PR system is an Act of the UK Parliament and as such cannot be amended by Holyrood.  If it could be amended at Holyrood I suspect that things like the list of reserved powers might have received some Holyrood attention by now. 

Edit... It strikes me that a Parliament steadfastly opposed to PR has a bit of a cheek insisting that the devolved Parliaments/Assemblies use PR and denies those bodies the right to have an electoral system of their choosing. 

IIRC the election system was devolved in the Scotland Act 2016.

FWIW, the Scottish Parliament can amend any Act of the UK parliament in any area that's not reserved. So for instance the Scottish Parliament has competence over some aspects of social security, meaning they can amend parts of social security acts, but not other parts of the same act.

[SweeperDee]

SNP are proposing a National Digital Academy which will allow anyone to study highers, anywhere, at any time, for free. That’s a brilliant idea; although I have no use for them now, I’d actually enjoy working through that sort of work just to see what I missed out on in some subjects at school. For those who actually require them to progress further in education and/or their work, it’s a fantastic idea.

[GordonS]

3 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Not getting this, ive got the ability to authorise compassionate leave for people under ‘special leave’ fully paid, is it the case in other public sector workplaces that this wouldnt happen? Its good to have these things enshrined in law but any manager who would actually expect someone back at their work in those circumstances is an absolute arsehole of the highest order. 

Bullying and harassment in parts of the NHS has been endemic and I know of other horror stories in some agencies. It shouldn't need to be in law if it's in the public sector but it probably does.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

2 minutes ago, SweeperDee said:

Arseholes of that magnitude are more common than you think.

Wow, ok, i mean for me thats just basic human decency, staggering that people would even seek to make people take unpaid leave either. Even taking an entirely capitalist attitude to it, if your workforce is happy, feels valued etc they work hard for you. Just cannot imagine any boss who would honestly take time off that person. Horrible.