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Might not vote 2021

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It is entirely possible to vote SNP on the basis that you want independence, while simultaneously acknowledging that they're little better than the New Labour centrist party that preceded them (without the illegal wars, of course) and that you're completely disillusioned with the lack of progress they've made on key issues.
The problem with this approach though is the SNP is that they're unlikely to write any of the fundamental protections people require (right to housing, devolution of power to local authorities, ensuring debtors aren't subject to criminal prosecution etc) into a Scottish constitution.
It's quite a conundrum. On reflection, the best approach is probably to stick with it for now before immediately campaigning to overthrow the SNP the day after the referendum.
Where will your vote go, no issue if you don't want to say?

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You could say that a fundamental problem with the SNP is that they have to try to be all things to all men to build support for the central policy: independence. Swing too far one way and they become unappealing to a section of the public that they need votes from.

After independence, it would be interesting to see what the party turned into. They've got a lot of support on loan. I know I'd be more of a natural Labour voter if they weren't so utterly shite, determined that it's union at all costs, and still so bitterly raging about the SNP not keeping them in government more than forty fucking years ago.

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What legacy do the SNP have after 14 years ? 

Well, figures last week show that violent crime is down by over 40% in the last 10 years for a start. On top of that, the NHS in Scotland has been the best performing in the UK for a long time now. Infrastructure in Scotland is a million times better in Scotland under the SNP than it was under Westminster control. 

People are healthier, safer and in general happier. 

I would agree that education figures could improve, but the fact is that the Scottish education system remains one of the best in the world. 

I'm a supporter of independence, but in my day to day life I sincerely believe that Scotland is better under an SNP government than it is under a Tory or Labour adminstration controlled by Westminster. 

And I'm not the only one. Think about it. 

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5 hours ago, BFTD said:

Spoil your ballot, at least.

Preferably with something amusing. I can't imagine having to count these things is much fun, so a wee laugh probably goes down a treat.

Nobody gives a f**k. They are looked at for a second and chucked in the spoiled box 

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2 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

People that spoil their ballots are wrong uns

I've done it once, when I really disliked the candidate from the party that I preferred. I couldn't vote for that person but I couldn't vote for any of the three other parties. So I wrote on the paper "I would have voted for [Party X] if their candidate hadn't been a [insert witty, incisive political critique here]".

46 minutes ago, BFTD said:

You could say that a fundamental problem with the SNP is that they have to try to be all things to all men to build support for the central policy: independence. Swing too far one way and they become unappealing to a section of the public that they need votes from.

This is the crux of Scottish politics right now. One party is trying to appeal to 55%+ of the electorate and currently has about 45%-50% in their pocket. The next two parties know they have no chance of getting over 25% each so make no real offer to the middle ground, and are appealing to their core votes while competing with each other to be the biggest opposition. Of the remaining two viable parties, one is extremely localised with lost deposits everywhere else and the other is mostly looking for the regional votes from supporters of the biggest party.

It's a really weird landscape.

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2 hours ago, G51 said:

It is entirely possible to vote SNP on the basis that you want independence, while simultaneously acknowledging that they're little better than the New Labour centrist party that preceded them (without the illegal wars, of course) and that you're completely disillusioned with the lack of progress they've made on key issues.

The problem with this approach though is the SNP is that they're unlikely to write any of the fundamental protections people require (right to housing, devolution of power to local authorities, ensuring debtors aren't subject to criminal prosecution etc) into a Scottish constitution.

It's quite a conundrum. On reflection, the best approach is probably to stick with it for now before immediately campaigning to overthrow the SNP the day after the referendum.

I'd hope that in an Independent Scotland we'd move away from all but the SNP just essentially being Westminster North parties. Ireland have FF/FG who are both c***s but they were started a century ago, but I like the idea of having completely new parties based on what you actually want in terms of all the key issues. Douglas Ross could be a great Gerry Adams

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I always vote mainly through a sense of what people had to go through to win the vote. 

I sometimes wonder if there should be a "write in" option on ballot papers and you could write in your own choice. I think some US states have this.

 

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A lot of people say i cannot be bothered to vote as i don't trust any of them. However that really doesn't achieve anything, if even half of those who didn't vote turned up on election day that could change outcome of election.

There are about 33 % of people who don't vote which is huge, if even half of them voted then turnout would be over 80% and that might be crucial.
 

Also if you don't vote the winning party & press just assume you would have voted for them.

I know it may not be ideal but i would still always rather vote for least worse option for my family, friends and Country. That is my view but i appreciate others are different.

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5 hours ago, tamthebam said:

I always vote mainly through a sense of what people had to go through to win the vote. 

I sometimes wonder if there should be a "write in" option on ballot papers and you could write in your own choice. I think some US states have this.

 

Correct.

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1 hour ago, Baxter Parp said:

Any c**t that doesn't vote embraces a Tory future. No matter how virtuous you think you are.

Gender specificity aside and 150 years later, I think I agree with John Stuart Mill:

"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing"

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16 hours ago, GordonS said:

I think this is maybe more a reflection of the fucking appalling level of political coverage in this country, more than of the parties or the politicians. 90% of the work they do is proper government stuff and it literally doesn't get reported anywhere, apart from sometimes in places like Holyrood magazine or the trade press of the relevant sector.

I could tell you good things each of the parties have done. Even the Tories, they got a national nitrogen balance sheet into the new climate change act, which is genuinely excellent. I could also argue with you about some of your criticisms. But unless you're immersed in it - and tbf, most of the people who are immersed in it are twats - then the perception you have drawn is fair enough.

Ultimately someone is going to run the country so if you can't vote for anyone then does it help to think about who you would most want to vote against? And if that doesn't work then it's always worth spoiling your ballot rather than just abstaining - for the constituency papers, all the candidates and their agents see every spoiled paper, so they'll see any message you write (as long as it's not, like, a psycho manifesto).

So someone will actually check out my scrawled cock and balls? I have a postal vote now so I feel a bit intimidated doing that. 

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Spoiling your ballot is pointless and extremely childish. It’s like a kid giving deliberately stupid answers on Maths test. Doesn’t make you clever - it makes you a fucking idiot. What is it going to achieve other than give the boys down the pub a laugh after you tell them “so I drew a big cock and balls instead!”

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10 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

Spoiling your ballot is pointless and extremely childish. It’s like a kid giving deliberately stupid answers on Maths test. Doesn’t make you clever - it makes you a fucking idiot. What is it going to achieve other than give the boys down the pub a laugh after you tell them “so I drew a big cock and balls instead!”

Ok, I’ll vote Tory instead.

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7 hours ago, paolo2143 said:

A lot of people say i cannot be bothered to vote as i don't trust any of them. However that really doesn't achieve anything, if even half of those who didn't vote turned up on election day that could change outcome of election.

There are about 33 % of people who don't vote which is huge, if even half of them voted then turnout would be over 80% and that might be crucial.
 

Also if you don't vote the winning party & press just assume you would have voted for them.

I know it may not be ideal but i would still always rather vote for least worse option for my family, friends and Country. That is my view but i appreciate others are different.

It’s up to the parties to inspire people to vote for them.

Voting for the least worst party probably doesn’t capture the imagination of some people.

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Spoiling your ballot is pointless and extremely childish. It’s like a kid giving deliberately stupid answers on Maths test. Doesn’t make you clever - it makes you a fucking idiot. What is it going to achieve other than give the boys down the pub a laugh after you tell them “so I drew a big cock and balls instead!”

Did writing;
w**k
w**k
w**k
Good guy
w**k.
Against all the names Not get accepted as voting once.

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1 hour ago, Scary Bear said:

So someone will actually check out my scrawled cock and balls? I have a postal vote now so I feel a bit intimidated doing that. 

At about 3 in the morning the Returning Officer will hold it up in front of the candidates and their agents, say "spoiled" and put it on the pile with the rest. So at least make it a good cock and balls.

50 minutes ago, Dunfermline Don said:


Did writing;
w**k
w**k
w**k
Good guy
w**k.
Against all the names Not get accepted as voting once.

Western Isles, European elections, 2014. And it counted as a positive mark for the SNP. 

An Edinburgh Tory councillor who was a candidate in the Western Isles in the 2015 general election claims it happened at his count too.

BpCte2yCAAAgWRT.jpeg

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16 hours ago, Detournement said:

My polling card came in the other day. Straight in the bin.

Christ, you've got some fuckin balls mate.

Me I'll be voting for the only Scottish based party the SNP.

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1 hour ago, Dunfermline Don said:


Did writing;
w**k
w**k
w**k
Good guy
w**k.
Against all the names Not get accepted as voting once.

Anything that expresses a clear preference gets counted.

Spoiling your ballot gets seen by some woman from the council who is doing the counting and then for a second by a party volunteer when you get shown the rejected ballots.

Folk should crack on if that's what they want to do but shouldn't be under the illusion anyone of influence sees it or cares 

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