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Celtic and Rangers B Teams in League Two?


falski

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2 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

Holy shit.  
Shite youth football academies in Europe have adult B Teams: FACT.
The national teams of Armenia and Azerbaijan are consistently worse than Scotland: FACT
The top Armenian and Azeri 1st team clubs have more home-grown players than we do: FACT
That's all the evidence we need to justify fucking up lower league football for the benefit of two clubs.

FTFY.

Good one, I see what you did there 👍 GENIUS.

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6 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Holy shit.  

Successful youth football academies in Europe have adult B Teams: FACT. 

The national teams of Croatia and Czech Republic are consistently better than Scotland: FACT

The top Croatian and Czech 1st team clubs have more home-grown players than we do: FACT

That's all the evidence we need to justify following their lead and learning from them.  B Teams are part of their overall structure, the player pathway at each club, and overall, they work. 

If you enjoy a cake then ask for the ingredients - you don't ask him to leave out the vanilla next time because you don't like it, and you think the success of the cake does not rely on the inclusion of vanilla. You just accept the judgement of the baker - he knows how to bake a cake!

 

Does Denmark have B teams? I look at Denmark and Croatia as the 2 nations who are the best performing of nations around the 5m mark and are the benchmark for Scotland, we are quite a bit behind both they countries in player development at this time.

Czech Rep has a population similar to Portugal and Belgium and we shouldn't be comparing ourselves to them. I would say Czech Rep are quite a bit behind they 2 countries mentioned in player development.

Croatia, Czech and Portugal have them but their domestic leagues are dominated by 1-2 teams (like the SPFL). Has anybody looked into any link of whether B teams make the leagues less competitive or not?

Denmark and Belgium don't have them and there leagues are arguably more competitive.

In summary:

No pattern to whether B teams produce better players but maybe there is a more compelling case they make the leagues less competitive which in turn must have an affect on player development????????

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15 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Naw, actually, the cake was spectacular: multi award winning, one of the best in Europe, and slices were sold for lots and lots of money.  And other bakers tried their best to copy it, some more successfully than others.

But yes, happy to disagree, and glad to hear you're trying to open up 😅

To be fair, the real analogy here is that we're all looking at a range of excellent cakes made with a range of different ingredients. You like vanilla and so you're claiming that of the great cakes with vanilla in them, it must be because they have vanilla in them, ignoring all the great cakes that don't use vanilla and all the shit cakes that do use vanilla.

My argument is that chucking vanilla into an already shit cake isn't going to make any difference.

I mean, this would be pretty much page one in any entry level Logic textbook - Just because some dogs are black, doesn't mean everything black is a dog.

Edited by Gordon EF
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15 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

This is Dinamo Zagreb's squad list under their 2020-21 wikipedia page. Helpfully they tell you who they signed from or through their academy. 'B' teams are doing a cracking job for them 5+ years in.

image.thumb.png.cbf93450c21a127c6e7d71f9f86050ba.png

According to the squad on wiki, they have 19 Croats out of a 33 squad = 57%.  Same as Slavia Prague.

Now consider the graduates playing at bigger clubs elsewhere: Eduardo, Modric, Corluka, Lovren, Vrsaljko, Brozovic, Kovacic, Olmo, Pjaca, Madzukic.

The Academy is doing a cracking job.

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2 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

According to the squad on wiki, they have 19 Croats out of a 33 squad = 57%.  Same as Slavia Prague.

Now consider the graduates playing at bigger clubs elsewhere: Eduardo, Modric, Corluka, Lovren, Vrsaljko, Brozovic, Kovacic, Olmo, Pjaca, Madzukic.

The Academy is doing a cracking job.

And how many of them played for 'B' teams again?

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1 hour ago, Gordon EF said:

Over the past few posts, I've tried to be a bit more open to the whole B teams idea. If it comes as part of a wider re-organisation of youth development in Scotland and the argument can be made that B teams play a part, fine. 

I think the thing is though that youth development is just one of many considerations in whether or not there should be B teams in the leagues. Of course, I’ve no doubts that everyone on here wants Scotland to produce as many good players as possible, but I’d say that it shouldn’t trump the fan experience of lower league Scottish football. The reality is that lower league fans, by en large, do not want B teams playing in their leagues. Should that consideration be trumped because it might make a few players a bit better?

I want the national team to do well, and I want Scotland to produce as many genuinely elite level footballers as possible. I just don’t think that B teams are the way to do it, and even if they are, I don’t think it’s a price worth paying.

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54 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

That was the Reserve League, and it was chronic: not good enough.  

To do a similar sort of job for the Old Firm to Jong Ajax or Benfica B the teams would really need to be entering at the Championship level. It's difficult to see what is going to be achieved at LL level beyond the blazer politics angle of getting them in somewhere to set some sort of precedent.

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From all the comments made by fans of clubs outwith the LL, it would seem there are only 11 clubs  that are in favour of admission of the B teams.

As this is an experiment for 1 year only then I would have expected that those self same fans who decry the decision would be happy that timeframe. 

If there is truly only 11 clubs in favour, logic dictates that, as promotion and relegation takes place year on year, then it will indeed be a short lived experiment !

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On 15/06/2021 at 15:57, Che Dail said:

Frustration. 

Here's another attempt.  Please watch this, just 8 minutes of your life,  and tell me you believe nothing is being done (by the OF) to look at wider measures to improve youth development in Scotland.   This video, LITERALLY, is published online and freely available.

Rangers consulted EVERY club, and sought to implement the feedback in their transition paper, of which, B Teams was a part.  If nothing is being done, it is not for the want of trying.

They believe that Scotland is the only country in Europe NOT to have a pathway from 17 to 21 years old.  They state that their findings are 'steeped in data', and they are following 'strategies that have worked in other countries'.

The implementation of B Teams is 'clearly to their benefit', and Strategic Partnerships might work for others.

 

I watched it, and it's very clear to me that NOTHING WHATSOEVER is being done by the OF to look at wider measures to improve youth development in Scotland. As said, they don't care about that, they don't care about lower league football in Scotland. They only care about themselves. And I don't even blame them that they do what is best for themselves, everyone does that. But then don't lie about it in such a blatant way by claiming you care about wider youth development in Scotland & the interests of the lower leagues / Scottish football in general.

There are some demonstrable lies in this. Like their claim that the their paper has just not been sent to the clubs, that has already been refuted by the SFA/SPFL. It's also a lie that there is no pathway for 17-21 year olds. There is the reserve league, most countries have leagues like that. Scotland has one, yet the OF aren't bothered with it. He claimed that 67% of Croatia's players in the World Cup final squad played in B-teams in Croatia, that's a lie, that was just 1, their reserve goalie.

This video is a load of shite and doesn't make me change my mind. Do something about the actual issues with youth development in Scotland and f**k off with B-teams, which won't help and will ruin lower league football in Scotland. People who support B-teams, don't care about lower league football in Scotland. That's simply a fact.

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10 minutes ago, Marten said:

 There is the reserve league, most countries have leagues like that. Scotland has one, yet the OF aren't bothered with it.

Their original participation also saw it become a half hearted effort as the SPFL tried to make everyone happy. An 18 team league with a single round robin. Everyone that wanted to be involved at that level got the chance and the OF only had 17 games to play so could still disappear for international friendlies.

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30 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Not convinced the Lowland League will be serving up a higher standard.

Neither am I!  For the most part, that is, other than the top 5 or 6.  

But for the 1 year trial it will provide regular and reliable fixtures and players will be preparing for Saturday football in real matches against men.

Realistically, I expect they would reach T2 or T3 if allowed. 

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16 minutes ago, Marten said:

Do something about the actual issues with youth development in Scotland and f**k off with B-teams, which won't help and will ruin lower league football in Scotland.

People who support B-teams, don't care about lower league football in Scotland. That's simply a fact.

How will it ruin lower league football in Scotland?  How can you possibly reach this conclusion?  

"People who support B-teams don't care about lower league football in Scotland.  That is simply a fact." 

No, that is patently not a fact, it is another hysterical (and incorrect) claim, based on what you mistakenly believe.  You cannot possibly back that statement up with fact.

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1 hour ago, Che Dail said:

That was the Reserve League, and it was chronic: not good enough.  

Not good enough for who, surely if all teams should have a chance to compete & in the main premier league sides should provide better opposition  than tier 5 part timers. If it was say snooker do you think it would improve Ronnie O Sullivans game playing against Joe Bloggs from the local pub with a best break of 10 what benefit would there be in that. The best thing to improve Scottish football would be for the Old Firm to get their wish to leave, players at the clubs left would get their chance to play rather than wasting 3 or 4 years playing in a B Team then being dumped. As the saying goes if they are good enough they are old enough most are not given a chance

 

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