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Celtic and Rangers B Teams in League Two?


falski

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Belgium has B teams? The use of B teams in Croatia mostly serves Dinamo Zagreb rather than any of the other clubs in the division.
They had one and only for last season. Clubs just voted against expanding that. And the one that was there, Club Brugge b, finished bottom and performed woefully. Not exactly a good example.

Then again, he keeps coming up with the shite about Croatia, ignoring the fact that B-teams had no influence whatsoever on their national team.
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1 hour ago, A Believer said:

Great stuff emoji106.png Regretfully some won't let factual trend analysis get in the way of good old fashioned deep-seated opinion based on anecdote.

Factual analysis... If someone's misinformed shite matches up with your opinion, it doesn't make it factual analysis. 😂

I know that you don't give a sh!t about lower league football, but most people here do.

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27 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Belgium has B teams? The use of B teams in Croatia mostly serves Dinamo Zagreb rather than any of the other clubs in the division.

I did not actually say that Belgium had B teams.  But happy to expand on Belgium, and the sweeping changes implemented by Michel Sablon.  From everyone playing 4-3-3, to NOT focusing on results (WINNING) in children's football. 

Interestingly, his inspiration was Johan Cruyff... who didn't stop B teams at Ajax or Barcelona.

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13 minutes ago, Marten said:

Factual analysis... If someone's misinformed shite matches up with your opinion, it doesn't make it factual analysis. 😂

I know that you don't give a sh!t about lower league football, but most people here do.

Facts, as apposed to your melodramatic doomsday pessimism?

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2 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Facts, as apposed to your melodramatic doomsday pessimism?

Ah, you're still ignoring all my actual arguments that I posted multiple times then? And you clearly still see B-teams just as a quick fix while ignoring my points on how to actually improve youth development.

Fact is that this plan is not about youth development, never has been and never will be.

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20 minutes ago, Marten said:

Ah, you're still ignoring all my actual arguments that I posted multiple times then? And you clearly still see B-teams just as a quick fix while ignoring my points on how to actually improve youth development.

Fact is that this plan is not about youth development, never has been and never will be.

The last 'argument' I read was another of your fictitious and typically apocalyptic versions of the future of semi-professional / amateur football in this country, which was based on nothing of any substance whatsoever.  That somehow Scottish non-league football would eviscerate because of the introduction of Old Firm B Teams. 

I don't see B teams as a quick fix, no -  When have I ever said that? I believe it is worth exploring though, on an initial trial period, which is exactly what is about to happen.  And at the end of the season, the following day, the sun will rise in the morning and come back down again at night.  And we will know what was successful in the trial and what was not - instead of relying on hyperbole and other made up stuff. 

Edited by Che Dail
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Take a look at the FIFA world rankings and compare performance over the past 20 years as a more reliable measure than one match v England.
They reached 4th place in 1998, 7th in 2008 and 4th again in 2018.  Their most recent ranking is 14th, which puts them in the top 10 sides at the Euros - whereas 14th is the highest placing for Scotland in 2007 over a twenty-odd year period. 
Scotland is currently ranked 44th in the world, and 22nd out of 24 at this tournament.
It is right that we look to successful small countries like Croatia for ideas and inspiration.  Adult B teams has been a part of their player pathway for many years. 
That's not to say that 'B' Teams is the only answer, but suggests it is worth exploring.  Bigger countries like Portugal (5th), Spain (6th), Italy (7th), Germany (12th), Netherlands (16th) all feature B teams in their league structures - and they all do international football and player development better than us.
https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/associations/association/cro/men/
 
CROATIA.thumb.JPG.60499ad262a1d5bd004f2dd556fe7df5.JPGSCOTLAND.thumb.JPG.feb5f9893141838c7cb4312c845b2903.JPG
Nice cherry-picked list of countries there, now throw in Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan and all the other dross with B teams in their system.
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5 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:
3 hours ago, Che Dail said:
Take a look at the FIFA world rankings and compare performance over the past 20 years as a more reliable measure than one match v England.
They reached 4th place in 1998, 7th in 2008 and 4th again in 2018.  Their most recent ranking is 14th, which puts them in the top 10 sides at the Euros - whereas 14th is the highest placing for Scotland in 2007 over a twenty-odd year period. 
Scotland is currently ranked 44th in the world, and 22nd out of 24 at this tournament.
It is right that we look to successful small countries like Croatia for ideas and inspiration.  Adult B teams has been a part of their player pathway for many years. 
That's not to say that 'B' Teams is the only answer, but suggests it is worth exploring.  Bigger countries like Portugal (5th), Spain (6th), Italy (7th), Germany (12th), Netherlands (16th) all feature B teams in their league structures - and they all do international football and player development better than us.
https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/associations/association/cro/men/
 
CROATIA.thumb.JPG.60499ad262a1d5bd004f2dd556fe7df5.JPGSCOTLAND.thumb.JPG.feb5f9893141838c7cb4312c845b2903.JPG

Nice cherry-picked list of countries there, now throw in Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan and all the other dross with B teams in their system.

Or The Netherlands for that matter, who haven't exactly been impressive over the last years!

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Just now, DiegoDiego said:
3 hours ago, Che Dail said:
Take a look at the FIFA world rankings and compare performance over the past 20 years as a more reliable measure than one match v England.
They reached 4th place in 1998, 7th in 2008 and 4th again in 2018.  Their most recent ranking is 14th, which puts them in the top 10 sides at the Euros - whereas 14th is the highest placing for Scotland in 2007 over a twenty-odd year period. 
Scotland is currently ranked 44th in the world, and 22nd out of 24 at this tournament.
It is right that we look to successful small countries like Croatia for ideas and inspiration.  Adult B teams has been a part of their player pathway for many years. 
That's not to say that 'B' Teams is the only answer, but suggests it is worth exploring.  Bigger countries like Portugal (5th), Spain (6th), Italy (7th), Germany (12th), Netherlands (16th) all feature B teams in their league structures - and they all do international football and player development better than us.
https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/associations/association/cro/men/
 
CROATIA.thumb.JPG.60499ad262a1d5bd004f2dd556fe7df5.JPGSCOTLAND.thumb.JPG.feb5f9893141838c7cb4312c845b2903.JPG

Nice cherry-picked list of countries there, now throw in Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan and all the other dross with B teams in their system.

The reference to Croatia was in response to a specific point about them losing to England.  The others are in the Euros (successful), so it is topical. 

But you're right, we could also talk about other small countries like Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Wales - all well ahead of Scotland in the rankings yet don't have B Teams - but then, one might argue that they (or any of the other small countries you reference) do not quite have a Celtic and Rangers equivalent with similar resources. 

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10 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

The last 'argument' I read was another of your fictitious and typically apocalyptic versions of the future of semi-professional / amateur football in this country, which was based on nothing of any substance whatsoever.  That somehow Scottish non-league football would eviscerate because of the introduction of Old Firm B Teams. 

I don't see B teams as a quick fix, no -  When have I ever said that? I believe it is worth exploring though, on an initial trial period, which is exactly what is about to happen.  And at the end of the season, the following day, the sun will rise in the morning and come back down again at night.  And we will know what was successful in the trial and what was not - instead of relying on hyperbole and other made up stuff. 

Yes, you clearly do see it as a quick fix. It's the ONLY thing you focus on. When a country that happen to have B-teams is ahead of Scotland, you immediately conclude it's because of that and don't look at any other factors that might also come into play. And the same with the OF pushing their B-teams, they claim it's for youth development. It's clearly not, they don't even talk about any of the actual issues with youth development. They ignore them, and so do you.

It's fine to have an actual debate about how to improve youth development. I brought forward some points on the subject a few times, but both yourself & the OF focus on one thing only, nothing else.

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1 minute ago, Marten said:

Or The Netherlands for that matter, who haven't exactly been impressive over the last years!

And interestingly, like Scotland, the Netherlands were slow to implement a functioning football pyramid.  Why change anything? they might have asked.  They were the doing things right, so it seemed,  one of the best in the world... but Belgium have overtaken them, masters of innovation and change.  Germany started completely afresh after they were thrashed by England in 2001 - They responded to failure.  

Implementation of change (or not adapting) has an effect further down the line, a generation away, the 'Hidden side of everything' if you believe the likes of Steven Levitt / Freakonomics. 

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June is the month in which the greatest number of weddings are held.

June is the rainiest month of the Summer.

Therefore, the most popular wedding gifts must be umbrellas!

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4 minutes ago, Marten said:

Yes, you clearly do see it as a quick fix. It's the ONLY thing you focus on. When a country that happen to have B-teams is ahead of Scotland, you immediately conclude it's because of that and don't look at any other factors that might also come into play. And the same with the OF pushing their B-teams, they claim it's for youth development. It's clearly not, they don't even talk about any of the actual issues with youth development. They ignore them, and so do you.

It's fine to have an actual debate about how to improve youth development. I brought forward some points on the subject a few times, but both yourself & the OF focus on one thing only, nothing else.

Not quite, Stewart Robertson openly admits that this is a venture to benefit themselves - the OF are businesses after all - but the consequential effects, they argue, will be beneficial to the game in Scotland and ultimately the national team. But in the longer-term, if properly implemented.  Nobody is saying this is a quick-fix - if they are to progress things beyond this season, it might be that they must start at the bottom of the pyramid and work through the leagues, that'll be a discussion to be had later.

On Croatia, Zagreb is a selling club. They invest what they can in their key assets which is their youth development program and young players.  It works for them as a business, as a football club, and it works for their country.  B Teams are part of their structure and player pathway, and that is a fact.

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22 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Not quite, Stewart Robertson openly admits that this is a venture to benefit themselves - the OF are businesses after all - but the consequential effects, they argue, will be beneficial to the game in Scotland and ultimately the national team. But in the longer-term, if properly implemented.  Nobody is saying this is a quick-fix - if they are to progress things beyond this season, it might be that they must start at the bottom of the pyramid and work through the leagues, that'll be a discussion to be had later.

On Croatia, Zagreb is a selling club. They invest what they can in their key assets which is their youth development program and young players.  It works for them as a business, as a football club, and it works for their country.  B Teams are part of their structure and player pathway, and that is a fact.

Obviously the OF do this to benefit themselves, otherwise they won't be doing this. But they clearly just throw in the "and it's good for the game in Scotland and ultimately the national team" as unsubstantiated pish in order to try to justify themselves. As said, it's not about youth development as NONE of the actual issues with youth development are even being talked about. Not by them and not by you.

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2 minutes ago, Marten said:

Obviously the OF do this to benefit themselves, otherwise they won't be doing this. But they clearly just throw in the "and it's good for the game in Scotland and ultimately the national team" as unsubstantiated pish in order to try to justify themselves. As said, it's not about youth development as NONE of the actual issues with youth development are even being talked about. Not by them and not by you.

Wrong. But how do you even know that?  Because you refused to watch the Stewart Robertson interview or read any articles on the subject.  You couldn't even bring yourself to study the graphic which promoted the scheme, previously shared on this thread. 

You bring only a pre-determined set of unshakeable and one-sided narrow views, a closed mindset. 

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1 minute ago, Che Dail said:

Wrong. But how do you even know that?  Because you refused to watch the Stewart Robertson interview or read any articles on the subject.  You couldn't even bring yourself to study the graphic which promoted the scheme, previously shared on this thread. 

You bring only a pre-determined set of unshakeable and one-sided narrow views, a closed mindset. 

Literally nothing has come out to show they (and you) are looking at wider measures to improve youth development....

It seems that you are the one having a pre-determined set of unshakeable and one-sided narrow views, a closed mindset.

Edited by Marten
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The Czech Republic have just beaten Scotland, and have had colt sides in their set up for the past twenty seasons. Therefore I've compiled this list of the 16 players who were on the Hampden turf yesterday, showing which of them had played even a single match for any colt or B team. Here it is:

1 Vaclik  X
5 Coufal  X
3 Celustka  X
6 Kalas  X
18 Boril  X
21 Kral  X   Holes X   
15 Soucek  X
12 Masopust  X Vydra  
8 Darida  X   Sevcik X  
14 Jankto X  Hlozek  
10 Schick X    Krmencik  X 

X indicates the player had not turned out at any point for any colt side.

 

Edited by Dundee Hibernian
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10 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

You couldn't even bring yourself to study the graphic which promoted the scheme, previously shared on this thread. 

You mean this? The thing that had bugger all in terms of detailing changes to youth development and amounted to a sales pitch to get into the league? Quite a lot looked at it so it could be laughed at. 

Lowland League Proposal - May 2021 minus cover sheet.pdf

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2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

You mean this? The thing that had bugger all in terms of detailing changes to youth development and amounted to a sales pitch to get into the league? Quite a lot looked at it so it could be laughed at. 

Lowland League Proposal - May 2021 minus cover sheet.pdf 7.82 MB · 23 downloads

That one has the laughable pish of 500 supporters at games being a conservative estimate, I'd be shocked if they end up averaging over 100, most games they will probably have under 50... And it mentioned matches on mainstream TV as well. It's an embarrassing document. 😂

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