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Celtic and Rangers B Teams in League Two?


falski

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43 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The Lowland League isn't a stand alone league. They vote to further the Colts participation or make them members affects the SPFL/WoSFL/EoSFL/SoSFL. Not just the 16 members that would be a part of any vote.

The Lowland has preached about the pyramid to understand well enough how it works.

Please explain how will it affect the other leagues ??

As far I know neither promotion nor relegation will be impacted by the colts being in the league.

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12 minutes ago, VodkaTap said:

You don't like the way the LL clubs have given an indicative vote ?                                 Unfortunately that just tough.

You have every right to pressure all you like, but, at the end of the day It is for the LL clubs only to decide on this matter

Considering the undeniable fact that this undermines the integrity of the pyramid and the potential of this to affect other leagues long-term it should not just be up to the LL to decide this. If it's allowed to do this by just letting LL clubs vote, then the rules should change. Even just putting this to a vote is a disgrace. This is why outside pressure is not only justified, but highly necessary. 

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33 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

It depends what you mean by "accept". There aren't going to be hoards of SPFL fans rioting outside Peffermill when Edinburgh Uni play OF colts (chances are there won't be anyone there). But why would folk accept it as in agreeing with it or not being bothered by it? the LL is part of the pyramid now. It's connected to the SPFL and to the leagues below it. What they do does effect or potentially effect current SPFL clubs so why wouldn't SPFL fans have an opinion on that.

You can keep saying "It's only 1 year" all you like. You know as well as everyone else does that the OF see this as the thin end of the wedge. They're hoping that 1 year in the LL normalises colt teams in the pyramid with the intention of getting them into the SPFL later on. And no doubt the "1 year" after that and after that until nobody cares any more and sees colts in the SPFL as inevitable. Everyone opposed to that should absolutely be making their views pretty clear to the current proposal to stop that happening. 

The acceptance part is by the dissenting members of the LL clubs.

LL clubs have given an indicative vote and will have a final vote soon. Whatever the vote is -  the majority view will  happen. This does not mean it is likely to be popular by the dissenters !!

You keep suggesting that it will                                                                                                                 inevitably be for more than one year,                                                                                                               that it will inevitably continue and                                                                                                                       that it will inevitably mean the colts will end up in the SPFL.

That is a lot of "inevitable things that MUST happen" when in fact there will be a lot of discussions, votes, and lobbying ( on both sides) that will need to take place before anything more can happen.

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I wonder if those so keen to accept OF Colts into the LL will be equally as keen to submit or support a proposal for more relegation/promotion spots into the LL from next season.

Afterall, the LL Chairman is very keen on ventilation.

This is where LL votes have a direct impact on the rest of the Pyramid below, but they appear too busy with OF Colts.

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13 minutes ago, VodkaTap said:

Please explain how will it affect the other leagues ??

As far I know neither promotion nor relegation will be impacted by the colts being in the league.

If the Colts participation gets extended, then once again the LL has decided to expand to line their own pockets rather than furthering the pyramid participation from actual clubs.

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1 minute ago, Marten said:

Considering the undeniable fact that this undermines the integrity of the pyramid and the potential of this to affect other leagues long-term it should not just be up to the LL to decide this. If it's allowed to do this by just letting LL clubs vote, then the rules should change. Even just putting this to a vote is a disgrace. This is why outside pressure is not only justified, but highly necessary. 

As it stands right now, the only clubs affected by this decision are the LL clubs themselves. Nobody else.

The integrity of the pyramid is affected  - how ??

Promotion from the LL is unaffected by this decision how can the SPFL clubs be affected ? 

Relegation from the LL will proceed & promotion to the LL will be unaffected by this decision so nothing will change by the decision.

I also fully understand the objection to the principle of admitting the colts to the LL, but that is not something I am advising for or against !!

 

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9 minutes ago, VodkaTap said:

The acceptance part is by the dissenting members of the LL clubs.

LL clubs have given an indicative vote and will have a final vote soon. Whatever the vote is -  the majority view will  happen. This does not mean it is likely to be popular by the dissenters !!

You keep suggesting that it will                                                                                                                 inevitably be for more than one year,                                                                                                               that it will inevitably continue and                                                                                                                       that it will inevitably mean the colts will end up in the SPFL.

That is a lot of "inevitable things that MUST happen" when in fact there will be a lot of discussions, votes, and lobbying ( on both sides) that will need to take place before anything more can happen.

I'm not saying or suggesting that it's inevitable at all. I'm saying that you'd have to be incredibly naïve not to see that the current proposal is meant to be a first step in getting colts into the SPFL on a permanent basis. Every single action in support of that eventual goal should be opposed if people don't want to see colts permanently in the leagues.

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3 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

I wonder if those so keen to accept OF Colts into the LL will be equally as keen to submit or support a proposal for more relegation/promotion spots into the LL from next season.

After all, the LL Chairman is very keen on ventilation.

This is where LL votes have a direct impact on the rest of the Pyramid below, but they appear too busy with OF Colts.

I agree that is a totally different subject and it must inevitably happen.

Remember tho, right now we have a wide disparity between eligible clubs for promotion between EOS & WOS.

Once that improves, as it will very soon, then am sure relegation & promotion places will increase.

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14 minutes ago, VodkaTap said:

As it stands right now, the only clubs affected by this decision are the LL clubs themselves. Nobody else.

The integrity of the pyramid is affected  - how ??

Come on, if you don't even see that than you've really closed your eyes to any argument against this.

What is being done could long-term be devastating for Scottish lower league football, all for just a tiny bit of cash this year. The people/clubs supporting this deserve all the criticism they get. I now wouldn't mind if some of the clubs supporting this go bust, that's how much I despise what they have done.

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2 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

I'm not saying or suggesting that it's inevitable at all. I'm saying that you'd have to be incredibly naïve not to see that the current proposal is meant to be a first step in getting colts into the SPFL on a permanent basis. Every single action in support of that eventual goal should be opposed if people don't want to see colts permanently in the leagues.

I am certainly not naive !

From the colts perspective, I am sure they would like to think it is a first step.

Whether you like it or not - this experiment is for one year only. What happens after that will be the subject of another vote.

Could the colts be promoted ? - let the Pyramid playoff rules answer that 

  1. Any amendment to these Pyramid Play-Off Rules must be agreed by each of the Scottish FA, SPFL, SHFL and SLFL prior to it becoming effective.
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1 minute ago, VodkaTap said:

I am certainly not naive !

From the colts perspective, I am sure they would like to think it is a first step.

Whether you like it or not - this experiment is for one year only. What happens after that will be the subject of another vote.

Could the colts be promoted ? - let the Pyramid playoff rules answer that 

  1. Any amendment to these Pyramid Play-Off Rules must be agreed by each of the Scottish FA, SPFL, SHFL and SLFL prior to it becoming effective.

Right, you're not naïve so you understand why lots of people are pretty strongly against this proposal even though it's only for one year at the moment?

Absolutely nobody is saying colts can be promoted next season.

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4 minutes ago, Marten said:

Come on, if you don't even see that than you've really closed your eyes to any argument against this.

What is being done could long-term be devastating for Scottish lower league football, all for just a tiny bit of cash this year. The people/clubs supporting this deserve all the criticism they get. I now wouldn't mind if some of the clubs supporting this go bust, that's how much I despise what they have done.

That statement has lots of bluster and angst - but no facts to back it up.

I do get how you feel about this decision - but i don't accept the inevitability of what might happen next

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I agree that is a totally different subject and it must inevitably happen.
Remember tho, right now we have a wide disparity between eligible clubs for promotion between EOS & WOS.
Once that improves, as it will very soon, then am sure relegation & promotion places will increase.


There is no "wide disparity" at all. The EoS and WoS will offer up licenced Champions next season, even then it's not an excuse to continue to strangle ventilation from below.

This has been talked about for at least 3 years but still nothing. OF Colts has been talked about for 3 minutes and you're falling over yourselves to roll out the red carpet.

It stinks of self preservation.
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3 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Right, you're not naïve so you understand why lots of people are pretty strongly against this proposal even though it's only for one year at the moment?

Absolutely nobody is saying colts can be promoted next season.

Of course I understand how lots of people are against the principle of letting the colts play in the league system. That view has been been very clear for many years now.

The point I was making is that the colts cannot be promoted any season without general agreement to a change of the rules by ALL concerned.

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7 minutes ago, VodkaTap said:

That statement has lots of bluster and angst - but no facts to back it up.

I do get how you feel about this decision - but i don't accept the inevitability of what might happen next

You clearly don't understand the objections against this, so don't lie by claiming you "get" us...

The difference is that I care about the pyramid, you & your club don't.

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3 minutes ago, VodkaTap said:

The point I was making is that the colts cannot be promoted any season without general agreement to a change of the rules by ALL concerned.

Which everybody acknowledges and understands.

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Just now, Burnieman said:


 

 


There is no "wide disparity" at all. The EoS and WoS will offer up licenced Champions next season, even then it's not an excuse to continue to strangle ventilation from below.

This has been talked about for at least 3 years but still nothing. OF Colts has been talked about for 3 minutes and you're falling over yourselves to roll out the red carpet.

It stinks of self preservation.

 

There is no wide disparity ?? - tell me in numbers exactly how you come to that conclusion ??

Until this year, exactly how many WOS clubs were eligible for promotion ???

Up until now, any change to the number of relegation places would have been to the benefit of the EOS & SOS only.

Is that the 'fair' change you feel would have been acceptable ??

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5 minutes ago, Marten said:

You clearly don't understand the objections against this, so don't lie by claiming you "get" us...

The difference is that I care about the pyramid, you & your club don't.

You have made you mind up about me and no doubt nothing I can say will change that - but a liar I am not !!

I speak for myself and I certainly don't speak for any club !!

You care about the pyramid ??? when did this start ???  Hopefully your club will  start to take part in the pyramid for the first time next season !!!

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The LL could quite easily have agreed to the principle of automatic promotion for all licensed tier 6 champions ages ago. Any disparity in numbers of licensed clubs wouldn't matter because promotion for non-licensed clubs wouldn't be available. Not that the LL is alone in trying to prevent the kind of "ventilation" that doesn't suit their members but the idea that it's something that they want to do but are just waiting for the number of licensed clubs in the west to gain parity with the east is a bit silly.

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4 minutes ago, VodkaTap said:

You have made you mind up about me and no doubt nothing I can say will change that - but a liar I am not !!

I speak for myself and I certainly don't speak for any club !!

You care about the pyramid ??? when did this start ???  Hopefully your club will  start to take part in the pyramid for the first time next season !!!

I've been pro-pyramid from the start, I don't speak on behalf of Lochee  United but I've always given my own opinion. That has always been pro-pyramid on here. Yes, I know people at Lochee United who have been against the pyramid, but I always respectfully disagreed with them. We will be in the pyramid from next season and I'm delighted about that.

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