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Celtic and Rangers B Teams in League Two?


falski

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I asked for benchmarks for successful player development, that can be measured in a one year trial. What with you being so concerned about Scotland not producing the same talent as Croatia. So let's run through the drivel you've selected for this then:
Home gates are completely and utterly irrelevant to the player development criteria. 
Fans' attitude is also completely irrelevant to player development criteria. Neither of these meet the criteria for a trial that you yourself have just set.
Players 'being competitive' in the 5th regional tier of Scottish football against brickies over a season does not demonstrate 'development' into an elite, international-level player. 
There are absolutely no measurable criteria for successful player development for this 'trial' and so the verdict will be whatever the Old Firm and their Wormtongue tagalongs say it is. 
 


Spot on. Although I’m still torn as ‘expert’ pundits like John Collins and Craig Levein think it’s a good idea with the argument ‘In Croatia...’
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3 hours ago, Ginaro said:

So when George said "maybe we as a league have to recognise that we have to do something and be proactive" when referring to his buzzword of "ventilation" on the SFA podcast, he was just hoping a random club would submit a relegation rule change rather than encouraging clubs (especially his own) to propose one? 

Not had a chance to listen to your podcast yet, what did he say about relegation?

Let me get this right, you take 8 EOS and 8 WOS clubs and put them in LL2, and then provide only provide an additional 0.5 promotion spots to get into the LL proper? :unsure: Seems a lot of work when an extra relegation spot (and the SOS taking a step down) would do the job even better with less hassle of a new division.

Plus if VOL were relegated under this scenario, they would be more likely to fall straight through LL2 as it contains the best of east and west, whereas they might have a chance in the EOS Premier.

They won't have a chance in the eos Premier 

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On the subject of LL2, this was originally conceived when there was talk of the SJFA regions moving into the Pyramid. LL2 was a way of taking control of tier 6 away from the SJFA if that happened. LL clubs weren't too keen on being relegated into Junior leagues.

That "threat" has gone and LL2 should be consigned to the bin, it isn't required. They need to move swiftly to 2 relegation spots as a minimum, maybe also a PO spot for third bottom.

This is a far more pressing concern for proper "ventilation" of the Pyramid than parachuting Colts in, one year or not.

However yet again it's not on the AGM agenda. The LL are as bad as the SPFL.

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5 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

On the subject of LL2, this was originally conceived when there was talk of the SJFA regions moving into the Pyramid. LL2 was a way of taking control of tier 6 away from the SJFA if that happened. LL clubs weren't too keen on being relegated into Junior leagues.

That "threat" has gone and LL2 should be consigned to the bin, it isn't required. They need to move swiftly to 2 relegation spots as a minimum, maybe also a PO spot for third bottom.

This is a far more pressing concern for proper "ventilation" of the Pyramid than parachuting Colts in, one year or not.

However yet again it's not on the AGM agenda. The LL are as bad as the SPFL.

For me this is the first year when it really should have been on the agenda to be discussed. The previous years there was the obvious imbalance regionally and last year everyone was dealing with COVID.

Earlier I think it was Mozza saying anyone could propose a change to the promotion and relegation format. With no one having done so as yet. The problem with that is that the LL Board came along and dumped a bombshell on everyone. In doing so suggesting promotion and relegation would be staying the same next year.

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37 minutes ago, magoo said:

They won't have a chance in the eos Premier 

They would have more chance in the EOS Premier than in a LL2 up against the 15 best EOS and WOS clubs - because clearly the top WOS clubs would be better than the bottom 8 EOS clubs. But yes as WW have shown, it would be a slim chance - suppose we'll find out in a couple of years...

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1 hour ago, Stewie Griffin said:

Second thoughts at Shielfield possibly. Sadly I am not a member of any of those any longer, but fair dos to them for doing this

 

https://berwickrangers.com/colts-proposal-call-confirmed/

Sadly they seem to want to actively dismiss views expressed against it.  It’s good they are looking for more interaction with their previous rat position, But they seem to have received anti-colt info and are looking to dismiss such views as ‘not real fans’ 

How many do we need to reverse their w**k position?  IIRC we had 11 wanks and it needs. Majority to pass of 17 clubs,  so 3 clubs seeing sense and not abandoning  progressive local football for a few quid and a chance to suck OF cock will be enough.  C’mon guys do the right thing.  3k ain’t getting you anywhere 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

I, for one, would love to see the “accredited evidence-based academic research published in Journal” written by Steven fucking Gerrard

Or Johan Cruyff. Or Pep Guardiola. Or John Collins. Or Craig Levein.

Edited by rockson
addition
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3 hours ago, virginton said:

I asked for benchmarks for successful player development, that can be measured in a one year trial. What with you being so concerned about Scotland not producing the same talent as Croatia. So let's run through the drivel you've selected for this then:

Home gates are completely and utterly irrelevant to the player development criteria. 

Fans' attitude is also completely irrelevant to player development criteria. Neither of these meet the criteria for a trial that you yourself have just set.

Players 'being competitive' in the 5th regional tier of Scottish football against brickies over a season does not demonstrate 'development' into an elite, international-level player. 

There are absolutely no measurable criteria for successful player development for this 'trial' and so the verdict will be whatever the Old Firm and their Wormtongue tagalongs say it is. 

 

Your demand was for a response to your questions to be 'extremely specific'. 

For the first one  I don't think that it is a reasonable expectation, so didn't bother trying.  

I could make a reasoned judgement on what I think those who initiated the idea of the B-team pilot might expect to qualify as benchmarks for successful player development that can be measured in a one year trial , but I'd only be guessing - and you might be disappointed, if you want a definitive black-and-white answer.

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We’ve just recorded another podcast (likely releasing tomorrow), but I’ll share my LL2 thoughts for now.

The time for LL2 has been and gone in my opinion. Like the WoS is using its new development division as a go-between, LL2 would have been perfect as a place for clubs working towards their club license & aiming to move up the levels.

Now, almost all the EoS top flight is licensed, while the WoS isn’t too far behind. I don’t think there’s any place for LL2 now.

i know the SFA/SPFL are currently against it, but the conversation in future should be around a LL West & LL East to balance out geographical differences at Tier 5.

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16 hours ago, Che Dail said:

😅

Ok I get it.  But really, I was referring to experts on Dutch football, not claiming to be one myself.

Out of interest and in the good natured spirit of 'the banter', what's the (reverse) term for a self-appointed expert on Scottish football, from Holland..?  

aardappeluitleggen

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Born To Run said:

i know the SFA/SPFL are currently permanently against it, but the conversation in future should be around a LL West & LL East to balance out geographical differences at Tier 5 6.

 

Edited by Cornishman
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13 hours ago, Stewie Griffin said:

Second thoughts at Shielfield possibly. Sadly I am not a member of any of those any longer, but fair dos to them for doing this

 

https://berwickrangers.com/colts-proposal-call-confirmed/

You'd think after Rangers tried to shaft them and East Stirlingshire back in the early 60s with league reconstruction these two would be vehemently opposed to all things Rangers.

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For me this is the first year when it really should have been on the agenda to be discussed. The previous years there was the obvious imbalance regionally and last year everyone was dealing with COVID.
Earlier I think it was Mozza saying anyone could propose a change to the promotion and relegation format. With no one having done so as yet. The problem with that is that the LL Board came along and dumped a bombshell on everyone. In doing so suggesting promotion and relegation would be staying the same next year.
The aims of the LL should be to improve the product so it's shocking that they are not addressing the issue. Increased ventilation is required IMO to get more clubs to "achieve their level". There should be at least 3 sides promoted into the LL from tier 6 every season.

I want to see a Lowland League filled with the best teams and a big increase in promotion and relegation is necessary to achieve that quickly.
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1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said:

You'd think after Rangers tried to shaft them and East Stirlingshire back in the early 60s with league reconstruction these two would be vehemently opposed to all things Rangers.

This is a good question, they also proposed reducing the league by 6 teams in the 90s which was successfully opposed by the then Berwick chairman Tom Davidson. He actually negotiated a better deal for the existing then Division two and three clubs from the SPL, you can thank us later.  Didn't hear anyone from Aberdeen or any other higher league club for that matter jumping up and down then. 

The truth is the top league live and thrive off the Old Firm, the other league clubs, including us when we were in the league, prayed to draw them in the cup. Yet when a wee upstarty league want a slice it's no we cant be having that, it will ruin the game, not fair I tell thee, down with the little buggers, hey Andy! Start a petition. Hypocrisy all round I'm afraid

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4 minutes ago, Deanburn Dave said:

The aims of the LL should be to improve the product so it's shocking that they are not addressing the issue. Increased ventilation is required IMO to get more clubs to "achieve their level". There should be at least 3 sides promoted into the LL from tier 6 every season.

I want to see a Lowland League filled with the best teams and a big increase in promotion and relegation is necessary to achieve that quickly.

You would think so but if nothing happens this year, it just looks like some clubs are trying to cling on to their Lowland League status.

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I’d say from the OF point this one year trial is about showing the SPFL L2 teams that they’ll get a boost in crowds which is pretty false. In anything like this the first couple of seasons will probably see some interest from fans, media and sponsors as it’s a novelty. This will last for a couple of seasons before the novelty wears off and no one is interested in two mediocre teams that don’t win every week.

The OF are hoping this is what happens so the SPFL teams believe they’ll get an increase in finances by admitting the Colts before the novelty wears off (see the attendances in the SCC for what will happen long term). They’ll then use these false figures of improved attendance, media interest and sponsorship to try and fool the SPFL into thinking this is long term gains (it’s not).

Pretty sure Marten said Jong Ajax attendance was good to begin with but dropped rapidly.

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21 minutes ago, dougster said:

Yet when a wee upstarty league want a slice it's no we cant be having that, it will ruin the game, not fair I tell thee, down with the little buggers, hey Andy! Start a petition. Hypocrisy all round I'm afraid

Thought it was all about player development

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2 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

You'd think after Rangers tried to shaft them and East Stirlingshire back in the early 60s with league reconstruction these two would be vehemently opposed to all things Rangers.

It was Berwick the old Rangers tried to shaft right enough, but East Stirlingshire weren't part of the five. Albion Rovers, Brechin City, Stenhousemuir and Stranraer were the other four clubs. At the time the 'Shire had had a brief dalliance in the top league, and eventually came down on the side of the five, against Rangers, who had also threatened expulsion to Alloa Athletic, Arbroath, Ayr United, Cowdenbeath, Dumbarton, East Fife, Montrose, Queen’s Park, Raith Rovers and Stirling Albion in exchange for one of the five, if they didn't side with the odious Ibrox club.

https://borussiabeefburg.wordpress.com/2012/12/08/the-press-sided-with-rangers-in-their-illogical-attempts-at-bullying/

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