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Celtic and Rangers B Teams in League Two?


falski

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2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Even if you believe in the TV deal i'm not entirely sure where it's meant to go. Saturday 3pm kick offs are a no go. Friday nights on BBC Scotland are tied into SPFL and SFA deals. BBC Alba has coverage on Saturday evenings in a SPFL deal. Then Sky is doing what they do with the SPFL which takes away the casual Scottish interest. I'm not sure Premier Sports are that desperate to try and get some OF coin.

It'll be on the same channel that shows the Croatian 2nd division.

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When does the bidding rights war begin for BSC Glasgow vs Rangers u-20s in an empty Recreation Park begin? Who'll be picking up the international rights, ESPN?

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The thing that gets me is that way that Celtic and Rangers always work together on this type of initiative.

They claim to be rivals but they just can't help giving each other reacharounds at every opportunity. 

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When does the bidding rights war begin for BSC Glasgow vs Rangers u-20s in an empty Recreation Park begin? Who'll be picking up the international rights, ESPN?
You are so rattled by this.

Are you okay mate?

I dont agree with the decision either before you get the pitchfork out
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21 hours ago, Marten said:

Imagine there is a children's hospital with absolute state of the art equipment, top class doctors and a very good co-operation/communication with local GPs and they also have clowns in the hospital to entertain the children to make them feel a bit better. People running a children's hospital in a different area with very outdated equipment, and underqualified doctors who don't even communicate with GPs in their area see that other hospital and are impressed by the recovery rates from horrible diseases over there. Then they just decide to employ some clowns ignoring the equipment, staff qualifications & communication issues to then claim: "it works in the other hospital, so this will solve all our issues".

 

That's essentially the logic of pro-colt team advocates like Che Dail on development of players in Scotland.

The debate is about football - your analogy above is utter drivel and completely irrelevant.

 

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22 hours ago, Marten said:

Yet again, you don't come with any counter-arguments on the last post I made and just come up with people who support the idea. As I said before, Scotland is a different country with different structures and colt teams won't resolve the situation. The actual issues with youth development are not even being debated!

The post you made said something along the lines of , "do you really think you know more than me about Dutch football? I'm Dutch {smiley face]".  Very arrogant and condescending, and I did not even say anything like that - you made it up. 

So tell us, do you know more about player development and coaching than the late Johan Cruyff?  

George Galloway talks utter shite about Scotland.  Should the rest of the world accept what he says because of his passport? 

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

I really don't understand the blanket refusal of the three feeder league idea, unless the plan is to move to automatic promotion for all tier 5 champions. I can understand why the SPFL are skittish about 3 automatic promotion and relegation places. But automatic promotion doesn't even seem to be on the cards for now.

Two of the major problems with tier 5 right now is the population imbalance between the HL and LL catchment areas and the Tayside/Angus problem. North, East and West leagues at tier 5 solves these at a stroke.

If the juniors had taken the initiative years ago instead of leaving it to the East of Scotland League, that could have had a chance.

It's to do with self interest and fear of change. 

There absolutely should be three (maybe four) feeder leagues from 'non-league' into the 'professional' game.   For a country this size I think there only needs to be 2 pro leagues, and the feeder leagues below that.

Edited by Che Dail
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22 hours ago, RiG said:

Right, so again you've linked to another interview calling for B teams so a particular side, in this case Man City, can hoard lots of talent.

So they can develop talent.  Same motivation for Rangers and Celtic - yes there is a selfish purpose, and they openly acknowledge that - but they argue there will be wider benefits for Scottish football, as evidenced in other countries.

 

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On 13/05/2021 at 00:26, Spyro said:

We are only asking you to provide INDEPENDENT evidence. You know, from someone who isn’t directly involved... but it’s ok. I can’t really be arsed going round in circles on this. Suppose we will find out when a Scotland squad full of ex-Rangers and Celtic Colts players are in the knockout stages of the 2026 World Cup 🙄

Evidence can be gathered after year one - it's a pilot, a feasibility study in the flesh.  

If it flops, discontinue. 

If it is a success, and there are evidently wider benefits, then progress with it - or at least continue the conversation.

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23 hours ago, Marten said:

I've set out my detailed thoughts in a post here on P&B, which I re-posted a few days ago in this thread. Feel free to read it. Not a single supporter of colt teams actually came with arguments against points I raised in that post (or the previous times I posted that or something similar).

But what gets me the most is that supporters of colt teams in Scotland generally just claim it's a quick fix and the one thing that's needed to make sure development work. To put in a nutshell what I said previously: the Dutch youth system has a very good reputation but that's due to an extensive network of coaching, training, scouting and youth partnerships going all the way down to lower non-league. Big names like Robben and Van Nistelrooy came through the youth system of a small non-league club (roughly the standard of a lower EoSFL team) before eventually being picked up by professional clubs. They were able to go all the way to the top due to the structures there are in place. Out of the extensive Dutch youth system, the "colt team" system is arguably the least effective and most controversial part. .

That whole set up is much more advanced than what's in place in Scotland. Over here the system is fractured and there is much work to be done imo. If you really want to address youth development over here, a top-down overhaul of the system currently in place is needed. Yet other than colt teams, NONE of these issues get addressed or even talked about. Advocates of colt teams claim it's a quick fix, where in fact it doesn't do anything to address the actual issues. If colt teams are included as a part of a major overhaul of the entire youth system it would really be fair enough. I still wouldn't like the colt teams part of the plan but I could even potentially support the plan as a whole if I do feel it addresses the other issues. The fact that none of the actual development issues are even being talked about, shows that the OF don't really want this for the interest of Scottish football and player development.

How would you even know what's being talked about?  You're not prepared to engage or understand both sides of the debate.  You say point blank that is is a bad idea and that's that.

There's much work to do - yes - and B teams are just one part of the overall picture, one element of the numerous suggestions for change.  But many people are so negative and resistant to change, and nothing happens. 

The top Dutch and Belgian leagues will merge this season.  Belgian football innovates, changes, develops and learns all the time - they just get on and do stuff.  Number 1 in the world. 

Scottish football, historically, is dinosaur by comparison and it doesn't need to be like that.  

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

The debate is about football - your analogy above is utter drivel and completely irrelevant.

 

Funny that, as you are actually the one coming with utter drivel. I've written lengthy posts about the actual issues around youth development in Scotland, highlighting that in many areas it's behind countries like The Netherlands and Germany. By ignoring those and just quoting my analogy, you have actually showed exactly why my analogy is a relevant comparison in this. You take one aspect of the youth development in other countries and claim the systems in those countries work because of that, ignoring all other issues relating to youth development in which Scotland is behind those countries. None of those other issues are even being debated, THAT is my biggest issue with this. B-teams are seen as a "quick fix" when the actual issues are not being addressed.

In countries like Germany and The Netherlands, the "colt team" part of the youth development is actually the most controversial part and there clearly isn't universal acceptance (not even in those countries) that that part is even helping. And even the people who support colt teams (yes, the late Johan Cruijff included), don't see it as the main thing of youth development, just as one aspect that might help things along. If those other aspects were also being debated here in Scotland and colt teams were just a part of a large package of complete overhaul of youth development over here, it would be a different matter. But that's not the case now.

Edited by Marten
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4 minutes ago, Marten said:

😂😂😂😂😂

No, they won't.

😄 well, the clubs voted in favour, so whenever it happens.  If it happens - point is they are exploring it and taking it forward.

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16 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

So they can develop talent.  Same motivation for Rangers and Celtic - yes there is a selfish purpose, and they openly acknowledge that - but they argue there will be wider benefits for Scottish football, as evidenced in other countries.

 

Nah, City are the embodiment of hoarding.

Not only do they have all their clubs around the world, some of them even have 'B' teams too. The more spots you have, the more chances you can take. Cheaper to throw pennies at hundreds of 15-19 year olds hoping to end up with a few £100m players than buy those £100m players once they develop elsewhere.

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17 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Evidence can be gathered after year one - it's a pilot, a feasibility study in the flesh.  

If it flops, discontinue. 

If it is a success, and there are evidently wider benefits, then progress with it - or at least continue the conversation.

How can evidence be gathered of long-term player development in a single year? What are the benchmarks for success that this trial has to meet? 

Be extremely specific.

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1 minute ago, Che Dail said:

😄 well, the clubs voted in favour, so whenever it happens.  If it happens - point is they are exploring it and taking it forward.

Belgian clubs. They don't really have a say in what happens with the Dutch league do they?

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Just now, Che Dail said:

😄 well, the clubs voted in favour, so whenever it happens.  If it happens - point is they are exploring it and taking it forward.

Belgian clubs voted to explore the option, Dutch clubs voted to kick it in the long grass as they're not interested. So it isn't moving anywhere. A Dutch/Belgian merger keeps popping back up ever few years only to be kicked in the long grass again.

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