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Celtic and Rangers B Teams in League Two?

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I'm very much against Colt/B-teams competing in 1st-team leagues.

What if they were to play, but, non-competitively?

i.e. no results for/vs. Colt/B-teams get included in the league table.

I could just about live with that.

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Bending over and taking a rodgering up the shoot for 3 grand?

Deary, deary me.

What an absolute embarrassment of a league if this happens. 
I am all for the pyramid and hope Kelty come up, it will freshen up L2 which is stale. 
I am also all for stopping  this access while this shambles is taking place.

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One of the truly confusing things about this from my point of view is knowing all the flack this is going to get and then suggesting a Lowland League 2 instead of increased promotion/relegation between LL & Tier 6.

You've just pissed off the 100+ clubs below and you think they're going to rip themselves apart for 16 spots and moving everyone else down a tier?

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19 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I don't use businesses that misuse apostrophes and I don't watch podcasts by people who wear hats indoors. These are among my important life rules.

Another is I won't be going to games in any division that has a Celtic or Rangers team in it.

How did you know I was wearing a hat without watching? 

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9 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

One of the truly confusing things about this from my point of view is knowing all the flack this is going to get and then suggesting a Lowland League 2 instead of increased promotion/relegation between LL & Tier 6.

You've just pissed off the 100+ clubs below and you think they're going to rip themselves apart for 16 spots and moving everyone else down a tier?

This is my personal opinion and should not be associated with whatever the WoSFL's view is.

The clubs in the WoSFL all joined up to complete the jigsaw of the Pyramid on the back of 3 promises.

1- All clubs will be equal and placed in 4 Conferences. (We all know how that turned out)

2 - Win your Championship and if you've got a licence and subsequently win the play-off, you're only 1 season away from a possible place in the SPFL.

3 - Every club will find their own level.

Promise number 1 got dumped in the bin. Promise number 2 looks set to join it. Promise number 3 is only for those outwith the LL.

All teams at Tier 6 in the EoSFL, WoSFL and SoSFL to be relegated en-masse to Tier 7, with the disguised creation of a LL2, meanwhile ensuring that no current LL team will be in the EoSFL, WoSFL or SoSFL anytime soon. Clubs in Tier 7 will subsequently get knocked down to Tier 8.

It's clear to me that what's needed now is the formation of a Lowland Football Association to encompass all teams and Leagues from Tier 5 down.

4 separate Leagues making their own decisions without any regard to the consequences of how it affects any of the others is not the way forward.

 

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8 hours ago, Bundesliga Boy said:

Absolutely spot on!

I was previously completely taken in by George's apparent determination for fairness pertaining to the Lowland.  Last season he spoke of the underhand tactics of the SPFL regarding trying to get Brechin into the Lowland League - and how they were being threatened by the SPFL and faced possible sanctions.

He appeared to be a man of principle.

Yet listen to his interview on the Lowland Podcast.

At around 7 mins 20 mins secs, he is asked what would happen beyond the first year of the OF colts being in the Lowland and he responds 'that is down to Rangers and Celtic' then follows up with 'we have only committed to one year'. 

Yet he later in the interview alludes to it just being a one year deal.......if that is the case, and it is purely a one year deal, why say earlier that it is up to Rangers and Celtic what happens beyond that.  It's so disingenuous.

In fact it stinks to high heaven!  If the Old Firm hadn't proposed this, and say instead, Annan and Edinburgh City had contacted him to say that their young boys hadn't played in a year or so either, and needed to join a league for a year, but had no funds to pay an entry fee, there would be absolutely no discussion to be had.  He would be preaching about the league can only be a maximum of 16 clubs, as previously reported.

He is an absolute sell out.  Had he just been honest, and said - 'our member clubs are really struggling financially so for a one year deal only we are going to accept a £3k pay off per club' (£50k payment by the OF divided by the member clubs) then.....you might not agree with it, but you'd appreciate the honesty.

But instead it's the underhandedness of it all.  

And quite frankly he should have been held to far greater account than he was during this interview by the one or two fanboys - one of whom in particular I have always had the greatest respect for.

To be clear, I'm not as fundamentally opposed as others to OF Colts......but if it has to happen, then in the name of fairness and so called 'sporting integrity' then they absolutely have to start at the bottom of the rung and work their way up.  Besides, it's equal Conferences at the moment beyond the West Premier so would presumably take fewer years to achieve.

I actually can't put into words just how let down I feel by George Fraser.....a man I have always greatly championed until now.

Again.....for the hard of thinking.......this has nothing to do with the two clubs in question......it's the fact that any club should be parachuted in above all others purely because they can pay a premium..........and then George Fraser having the sheer audacity to comment that it's purely because 'their kids haven't played in a while'...........whereas presumably all other clubs in Scotland have had the luxury of playing their youngsters on a weekly basis!  Where to even begin with this???

What did you want? Shouting and screaming? I asked George if he is betraying the ideals of the Lowland League? Was not holding him to account?

Also, you mention Edinburgh City here. Edinburgh City development would be in the East of Scotland this season if Meadowbank was ready in time.

Perplexing those against Colt sides being in the pyramid have no issues with the fact we already have colts sides in the pyramid. 

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15 minutes ago, RampantFM said:

What did you want? Shouting and screaming? I asked George if he is betraying the ideals of the Lowland League? Was not holding him to account?

Also, you mention Edinburgh City here. Edinburgh City development would be in the East of Scotland this season if Meadowbank was ready in time.

Perplexing those against Colt sides being in the pyramid have no issues with the fact we already have colts sides in the pyramid. 

Who and where are these Colt sides?

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17 minutes ago, RampantFM said:

 Edinburgh City development would be in the East of Scotland this season if Meadowbank was ready in time.

Would they?    a) Edinburgh City are not the only club with a call on Meadowbank and    b) EoS clubs would have had to vote on it.

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6 minutes ago, Kennie said:

Who and where are these Colt sides?

Stranraer Reserves - South of Scotland

Caledonian Braves Reserves - South of Scotland

Stirling Uni Reserves - East of Scotland. 

Edited by RampantFM

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25 minutes ago, RampantFM said:

Also, you mention Edinburgh City here. Edinburgh City development would be in the East of Scotland this season if Meadowbank was ready in time.

Perplexing those against Colt sides being in the pyramid have no issues with the fact we already have colts sides in the pyramid. 

Edinburgh City would have gone to a membership vote. The last time a reserve side went to a vote in the pyramid era it failed to be accepted. Even then on their possible entry under existing rules their participation is restricted to the EoSFL alone.

Stirling Uni EoS only exist in the pyramid because they never resigned from the EoSFL when signing up for the LL. They would also cease to exist if Stirling Uni's first team gets relegated.

You're then looking at Stranraer and Caledonian Braves both and in future Nairn County 'A' in the NCL. All 3 restricted to the one division and basically exist to prop up those leagues number wise.

EDIT: Oh, and there was the recent example of ICT trying to get in the Highland League. Rejected and then limited their loan rules after ICT turned Fort William into defacto Colt side.

 

Edited by FairWeatherFan

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1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

One of the truly confusing things about this from my point of view is knowing all the flack this is going to get and then suggesting a Lowland League 2 instead of increased promotion/relegation between LL & Tier 6.

You've just pissed off the 100+ clubs below and you think they're going to rip themselves apart for 16 spots and moving everyone else down a tier?

Where does this LL2 suggestion come from?  I've not listened to the interview but what was the question that drew that response?

I know LL2 was being looked at when it was a possibility that the SJFA could enter the Pyramid but my understanding was that it was shelved once the WoS was formed.  An LL2 at this stage would just underline the fact that the LL is as protectionist as the SPFL when it comes to relegating teams.

As far as the Pyramid is concerned, I don't think it does any real damage other than affect the credibility of the LL.  The EoS and WoS will carry on unaffected and sort out their structures moving forward, there will still be play-offs, there will still be promotions to the LL.

If the LL members vote for this Colts plan then hell mend them, they're being bought and sold for OF gold (is it even gold - £3k each, if that?) however what sticks in the craw for me is that we are still no further forward in relegating two or three teams from the LL whilst Fraser & Co talk about "ventilation".  It's utter bare faced hypocrisy.  This was the time to do something to counter concerns over this Colt business, but there's not even that.  They don't have any credibility when moaning about lack of auto promotion/relegation to the SPFL.

It's a mess.

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9 minutes ago, RampantFM said:

Stranraer Reserves - South of Scotland

Caledonian Braves Reserves - South of Scotland

Stirling Uni Reserves - East of Scotland. 

They are all banned from the LL.  Why are OF Colts different ?

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10 hours ago, VodkaTap said:

You make a bold statement about what you reckon I have said, why don't you quote me where I have expressed an opinion about whether the proposal is either good or bad.

I have been careful not to make one.

All I have been making the case for is that it is for the current lowland league to decide on the merits or not of this proposal.

This current one year proposal as it stands only affects the current LL clubs. That is the only point I am making.

 

It's the fact you are so sure it's only a LL issue that is at best naive and at worst a deliberate misrepresentation.

27 minutes ago, RampantFM said:

What did you want? Shouting and screaming? I asked George if he is betraying the ideals of the Lowland League? Was not holding him to account?

Also, you mention Edinburgh City here. Edinburgh City development would be in the East of Scotland this season if Meadowbank was ready in time.

Perplexing those against Colt sides being in the pyramid have no issues with the fact we already have colts sides in the pyramid. 

Touchy!

7 minutes ago, RampantFM said:

Stranraer Reserves - South of Scotland

Caledonian Braves Reserves - South of Scotland

Stirling Uni Reserves - East of Scotland. 

They can go as well. ( Nothing personal, but the principle needs to be carried through).

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7 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Where does this LL2 suggestion come from?  I've not listened to the interview but what was the question that drew that response?

I know LL2 was being looked at when it was a possibility that the SJFA could enter the Pyramid but my understanding was that it was shelved once the WoS was formed.  An LL2 at this stage would just underline the fact that the LL is as protectionist as the SPFL when it comes to relegating teams.

As far as the Pyramid is concerned, I don't think it does any real damage other than affect the credibility of the LL.  The EoS and WoS will carry on unaffected and sort out their structures moving forward, there will still be play-offs, there will still be promotions to the LL.

If the LL members vote for this Colts plan then hell mend them, they're being bought and sold for OF gold (is it even gold - £3k each, if that?) however what sticks in the craw for me is that we are still no further forward in relegating two or three teams from the LL whilst Fraser & Co talk about "ventilation".  It's utter bare faced hypocrisy.  This was the time to do something to counter concerns over this Colt business, but there's not even that.  They don't have any credibility when moaning about lack of auto promotion/relegation to the SPFL.

It's a mess.

Around the 30:45 mark they move on to asking if the LL is expanding to 18 is there going to be further relegation spots at this year's AGM? George pivots to saying they have to look at expanding and widening the LL. Without really touching relegation as a topic. His vision being a Lowland League 2 or two divisions of the LL.

Edited by FairWeatherFan

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2 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

It's the fact you are so sure it's only a LL issue that is at best naive and at worst a deliberate misrepresentation.

Touchy!

They can go as well. ( Nothing personal, but the principle needs to be carried through).

Not touchy at all. Just don't understand what people expected? We put questions to George and don't feel anything was missed out. 

Btw, I'm more on the fence with the proposal and share the same concerns that have been expressed here yet everyone claims we're all for it. Laughable. 

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3 minutes ago, RampantFM said:

No problem with Stranraer Reserves being a tier above all the WOS conference sides though. Fair point. 

No. It's not as if there's anywhere else they could be.

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6 minutes ago, RampantFM said:

No problem with Stranraer Reserves being a tier above all the WOS conference sides though. Fair point. 

South of Scotland Football League and West of Scotland Football League. Different leagues and the pyramid is going to have different depths.

 

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Rampant does seem to be some sort of apologist for George Sell your Granny
Strikes me as a mate who just can't quite bring themselves to call their pal out for what he is.

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