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Celtic and Rangers B Teams in League Two?


falski

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Have avoided until now but since the colt vote conspiracies are getting banded around now….

I’ve been told CS Strollers are one of the teams telling porkies about how they voted and allegedly voted FOR the inclusion of the B teams.

My source is admittedly questionable being a colleague who is mates with someone at CS who told him that 🤔

However, having heard from other teams fans and having seen first hand the CS home support barely into double figures, I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t just a load of rumourmongery and they did indeed vote FOR in the hope it might boost numbers through the gate. 

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1 hour ago, 8MileBU said:

Have avoided until now but since the colt vote conspiracies are getting banded around now….

I’ve been told CS Strollers are one of the teams telling porkies about how they voted and allegedly voted FOR the inclusion of the B teams.

My source is admittedly questionable being a colleague who is mates with someone at CS who told him that 🤔

However, having heard from other teams fans and having seen first hand the CS home support barely into double figures, I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t just a load of rumourmongery and they did indeed vote FOR in the hope it might boost numbers through the gate. 

I think your source is talking nonsense. Why would the CSS President  issue a statement saying they voted against it? He would have been better saying nothing rather than open himself up to criticism, if your theory is to be believed.

Edited by Pyramid Watcher
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9 hours ago, Pyramid Watcher said:

I think your source is talking nonsense. Why would the CSS President  issue a statement saying they voted against it? He would have been better saying nothing rather than open himself up to criticism, if your theory is to be believed.

I was sceptical as well fwiw, hence why I described the source as questionable and used the 🤔 emoji. 

Edited by 8MileBU
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I think the whole charade is questionable, although i have different reasons for most.
 

Some will say the pros are cons and that the cons are pros, depends on which team you support, follow or work or volunteer for etc...

 

CONS

# Celtic and Rangers want a B team in Scottish football, there's no question
# Lowland clubs voted for two reasons and two reasons only, Self motivation and greed. The Lowland teams know they can make some money from these B clubs when they visit for a home match.
#  Sure I read it on the announcement statement from either  Ian Maxwell (SFA) or Neil Doncaster (SPFL) who said on the statement that they will get involved to see the progression and development of the Lowland league and Scottish football.  Which sounds great but to me this is worrying as I cant see them doing what's best for Lowland and leagues below.  Going off track on this point but personally and these are my views Its quite simplistic in what is to be done. SPFL2 and Lowland and Highland should have 2 automatic relegation and 3rd bottom in a playoff, the same obviously applied to promotion. This will complete the full Scottish pyramid system. 
# Lot of hatred for the Old firm from a lot in the lower leagues but in reality we should not let this cloud our judgement or should we, loll

PROS

# The B Teams, Celtic, Rangers and Hearts cannot be promoted or relegated. 
# The B teams, Celtic, Rangers and Hearts cannot play in any of the cups, (I'm still unsure about this but put it in the pros for now)
# This does not effect the promotion or relegation in Scottish football, as all teams trying to be promoted or avoid relegation will have to play Celtic, Rangers and Hearts home and away.
# The B teams are unquestionable in talent as they offer some of the best young technical footballing talent in the country and are using the league to bleed these young lads into men's football thus gaining valuable experience and the same goes for the Lowland league teams.
# Having spoken to a few coaches and committee people from a few Lowland teams they have all said it worked out well with Celtic and Rangers - money wise, crowd size and experience.

 

is this a PRO or CON

# team who voted yes or No for the Inclusion of B teams

 

I'm sure these lists are exhaustible but if you have any pro or con, please feel free to add or update.

Edited by Bestsinceslicebread
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14 hours ago, 8MileBU said:

Have avoided until now but since the colt vote conspiracies are getting banded around now….

I’ve been told CS Strollers are one of the teams telling porkies about how they voted and allegedly voted FOR the inclusion of the B teams.

My source is admittedly questionable being a colleague who is mates with someone at CS who told him that 🤔

However, having heard from other teams fans and having seen first hand the CS home support barely into double figures, I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t just a load of rumourmongery and they did indeed vote FOR in the hope it might boost numbers through the gate. 

100%, voted no.

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42 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

I think the whole charade is questionable, although i have different reasons for most.
 

Some will say the pros are cons and that the cons are pros, depends on which team you support, follow or work or volunteer for etc...

 

CONS

# Celtic and Rangers want a B team in Scottish football, there's no question
# Lowland clubs voted for two reasons and two reasons only, Self motivation and greed. The Lowland teams know they can make some money from these B clubs when they visit for a home match.
#  Sure I read it on the announcement statement from either  Ian Maxwell (SFA) or Neil Doncaster (SPFL) who said on the statement that they will get involved to see the progression and development of the Lowland league and Scottish football.  Which sounds great but to me this is worrying as I cant see them doing what's best for Lowland and leagues below.  Going off track on this point but personally and these are my views Its quite simplistic in what is to be done. SPFL2 and Lowland and Highland should have 2 automatic relegation and 3rd bottom in a playoff, the same obviously applied to promotion. This will complete the full Scottish pyramid system. 
# Lot of hatred for the Old firm from a lot in the lower leagues but in reality we should not let this cloud our judgement or should we, loll

PROS

# The B Teams, Celtic, Rangers and Hearts cannot be promoted or relegated. 
# The B teams, Celtic, Rangers and Hearts cannot play in any of the cups, (I'm still unsure about this but put it in the pros for now)
# This does not effect the promotion or relegation in Scottish football, as all teams trying to be promoted or avoid relegation will have to play Celtic, Rangers and Hearts home and away.
# The B teams are unquestionable in talent as they offer some of the best young technical footballing talent in the country and are using the league to bleed these young lads into men's football thus gaining valuable experience and the same goes for the Lowland league teams.
# Having spoken to a few coaches and committee people from a few Lowland teams they have all said it worked out well with Celtic and Rangers - money wise, crowd size and experience.

 

is this a PRO or CON

# team who voted yes or No for the Inclusion of B teams

 

I'm sure these lists are exhaustible but if you have any pro or con, please feel free to add or update.

This is the bit that can most be filed under 'absolute bollocks'. 

Last season, the OF Colts mostly fielded strong teams and usually won. But, just occasionally, they were involved in some tournament or other in Europe, so fielded really weak teams in the Lowland League, allowing an easy win for the opposition. So if you were lucky you could get 3 points when you would otherwise have had no chance. 

That 1 fact alone, makes their inclusion a) an unacceptable farce, and b) the very opposite of sporting integrity.

The debate keeps being added to by people who take no account of what actually happened in the first season of this piss poor experiment 

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I'm sure these lists are exhaustible but if you have any pro or con, please feel free to add or update.

Some of your "pro"s I'd say are actually neutral rather than good or bad, and at least one could be in the "cons" list.
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8 minutes ago, Redcar said:

This is the bit that can most be filed under 'absolute bollocks'. 

Last season, the OF Colts mostly fielded strong teams and usually won. But, just occasionally, they were involved in some tournament or other in Europe, so fielded really weak teams in the Lowland League, allowing an easy win for the opposition. So if you were lucky you could get 3 points when you would otherwise have had no chance. 

That 1 fact alone, makes their inclusion a) an unacceptable farce, and b) the very opposite of sporting integrity.

The debate keeps being added to by people who take no account of what actually happened in the first season of this piss poor experiment 

Well if its not put out there, how can anyone know
For me, I'm going by my views and what others have said during their involvement of this.

I'm a bit unsure so with a team pulling players out to go to the A team is not sporting integrity.  I suppose the same could be said of all WOSFL, EOSFL, SOSFL and Lowland league B teams, (U20s teams) when the first team pull players out of important league matches and cup ties.

100% agree its an experiment but in reality of any experiment you need to learn from it

Edited by Bestsinceslicebread
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3 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Well if its not put out there, how can anyone know

It's pretty easy just remove the OF points. Next season with potential for closer races at top and bottom and a 3rd B team involved it might be even more varied.

The supposed fix for B teams playing weakened teams is they can now postpone games if they get enough International call ups. Non-league traditionally putting on their big games on international weekends to maximise crowds.

It would also mean pushing more games to midweeks when part-timers will be the ones struggling to put out their 1st choice teams.

image.png.0d12abb5a5d304d816182d755edf77d9.png

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16 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Well if its not put out there, how can anyone know
For me, I'm going by my views and what others have said during their involvement of this.

I'm a bit unsure so with a team pulling players out to go to the A team is not sporting integrity.  I suppose the same could be said of all WOSFL, EOSFL, SOSFL and Lowland league B teams, (U20s teams) when the first team pull players out of important league matches and cup ties.

100% agree its an experiment but in reality of any experiment you need to learn from it

Hey look, I never mean to come across rude or disrespectful. Genuine apologies if I did.

The point is though that it is out there - been stated many times on P&B for instance. Also, the difference between OF colts usual teams and the sides they put out last year when the main squad were off on tour, is much greater than other examples you give. It is totally unacceptable and as stated, the notion of league postponenents - whilst a bit better than last season - is still a disproportionate problem for clubs at this level. #devil #detail

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48 minutes ago, Redcar said:

Hey look, I never mean to come across rude or disrespectful. Genuine apologies if I did.

The point is though that it is out there - been stated many times on P&B for instance. Also, the difference between OF colts usual teams and the sides they put out last year when the main squad were off on tour, is much greater than other examples you give. It is totally unacceptable and as stated, the notion of league postponenents - whilst a bit better than last season - is still a disproportionate problem for clubs at this level. #devil #detail

I never took it as that, you were putting a point across, maybe a bit tired of putting it across, not sure but I defiantly didn't take offence to it.
I will say, Fairweathers point of not adding the points to the final table is actually a good one so there shouldn't be any complaints, or definitely less complaints.

I don't see the Old firm and Hearts as a big problem but the point you have made, yeah has to be dealt with, I'm just looking at the bigger picture and just want the promotion and relegation opened up to keep the Scottish pyramid system functioning equally for all teams and leagues

Edited by Bestsinceslicebread
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1 hour ago, razamanaz said:

They need the reserve league back. I don't see how young full-time pros learn anything playing against joiners, plumbers or students

The students one is the biggest anomaly for me. Stirling and Edinburgh Uni will 'almost' have their entire team made up of players under 22 so very similar to the ages of the 'B' teams. These will be players who are good footballers but are obviously not the best in the country at their age and they are directly facing the 'best' players in the country at their age. It is clearly a mismatch and doesn't help the players in the 'B' teams, they surely would be better playing the other youth teams from the premier league teams who would likely be closer to their ability than the students.

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TBH it doesn't matter if the B team players are playing against Cowdenbeath, Edinburgh Uni or a P&B select. Their games are meaningless. Their argument about giving the players proper competitive football doesn't hold any truth as their results don't matter to the B team players. If they want their young players to get a taste of competitive action that matters send them on loan to teams where their team mates have mortgages to pay for and contracts to play for, etc.

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5 minutes ago, ahemps said:

The students one is the biggest anomaly for me. Stirling and Edinburgh Uni will 'almost' have their entire team made up of players under 22 so very similar to the ages of the 'B' teams. These will be players who are good footballers but are obviously not the best in the country at their age and they are directly facing the 'best' players in the country at their age. It is clearly a mismatch and doesn't help the players in the 'B' teams, they surely would be better playing the other youth teams from the premier league teams who would likely be closer to their ability than the students.

Agree, surely the B team players should be learning their craft playing established 1st team players coming back from injury or squad players - seen that at Falkirk, youngsters just getting shoved off the ball as never played against men.

SFA have made an arse of something again - start a pyramid and [email protected] it up and get supporter backs up

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52 minutes ago, ahemps said:

The students one is the biggest anomaly for me. Stirling and Edinburgh Uni will 'almost' have their entire team made up of players under 22 so very similar to the ages of the 'B' teams. These will be players who are good footballers but are obviously not the best in the country at their age and they are directly facing the 'best' players in the country at their age. It is clearly a mismatch and doesn't help the players in the 'B' teams, they surely would be better playing the other youth teams from the premier league teams who would likely be closer to their ability than the students.

Is the Edinburgh Uni not mostly English students anyway? Always difficult to predict how strong these sides would be with the huge turnovers from year to year.

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20 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

The B teams are unquestionable in talent as they offer some of the best young technical footballing talent in the country and are using the league to bleed these young lads into men's football thus gaining valuable experience 

😅

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1 hour ago, razamanaz said:

They need the reserve league back. I don't see how young full-time pros learn anything playing against joiners, plumbers or students

In reality most of the guys in the Colts sides will be joiners, plumbers or students once they get dumped by their clubs.

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1 hour ago, edinabear said:

Is the Edinburgh Uni not mostly English students anyway? Always difficult to predict how strong these sides would be with the huge turnovers from year to year.

What’s them being English , if they are, got to do with it?

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