Celtic and Hearts B Teams in Lowland League?

[PastyMan]

54 minutes ago, Thistle Scotland Europe said:

......
I cannot see why playing a b team is so terrible. When most part time clubs do not mind Celtic or Rangers sending a virtual B team to play a friendly or cup game.

It is just conservative nonsense, from fans who are offended by an idea that helps Scotland produce better players.

The point in having strong grassroots is to have a strong national team. There is no point in having strong grassroots but a rubbish national team.

The Scottish National team is NOT the priority for the OF Colts side. If there is any benefit at all it would be purely coincidental.
Just look at the signing Celtic made specifically for the Colts side. An 18 yo from Scunthorpe, born in Scunthorpe and no mention at all of a possible Scottish granny.
https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/celtic-dawson-scunthorpe-united-transfer-5545457

[Boaby Fisher]

12 minutes ago, PastyMan said:

The Scottish National team is NOT the priority for the OF Colts side. If there is any benefit at all it would be purely coincidental.
Just look at the signing Celtic made specifically for the Colts side. An 18 yo from Scunthorpe, born in Scunthorpe and no mention at all of a possible Scottish granny.
https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/celtic-dawson-scunthorpe-united-transfer-5545457

Quite right, the OF do not give one solitary f**k about the national team or the development of any player who isn't on their books.

[Benidorm]

51 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

They do it in Albania, Armenia and Azerbaijan, too. Fancy emulating their Euros performance?

Despite the wailing and gnashing about our top flight, our lower league setup is actually significantly stronger than many. We have more (A lot more in some instances) professional teams than most countries our size and many bigger. Per head our attendances are probably as strong as any, and if anything the setup is likely to continue to increase in strength due to the pyramid. Well, it was....

Some of the lower league setups in mainland Europe are appalling in comparison tbh. 

 

 

[oneteaminglasgow]

1 hour ago, Thistle Scotland Europe said:

They do it Germany, Spain, France, the Netherlands and Portugal.

Why are they more patriotic than us?

Why do some traitorous clowns think it is more important that a part time team finishes 4 or 5 places higher in the league than Scotland producing great player?

Get fucked you absolute mentalist. 

[Footballfirst]

And here is the financial inducement

 

[parsforlife]

6 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

And here is the financial inducement

 

Just shows how low the LL sold themselves out for.

[FairWeatherFan]

At least it shows they've learned from previous experiences. More money, limit relegations, cap their highest level. They're doing everything they can to bribe their way to enough votes

[Footballfirst]

7 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Just shows how low the LL sold themselves out for.

Club 42 receives around £45k a season, so the £580k inducement will more than pay for the extra six teams in the league, so everyone gains.

Bribery in plain sight.

[BFTD]

I'm obviously not in favour of such a thing actually happening, but imagine if Celtgers ended up having to withdraw their B teams because the backup players they were trying to keep match fit ended up getting the shit kicked out of them on a weekly basis by opposition players sick of having their time wasted by some of the most pointless quasi-friendly matches imaginable.

Be a wee shame.

[BS7]

22 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Club 42 receives around £45k a season, so the £580k inducement will more than pay for the extra six teams in the league, so everyone gains.

Bribery in plain sight.

Prostitution, surely.

[Che Dail]

1 hour ago, Benidorm said:

Despite the wailing and gnashing about our top flight, our lower league setup is actually significantly stronger than many. We have more (A lot more in some instances) professional teams than most countries our size and many bigger. Per head our attendances are probably as strong as any, and if anything the setup is likely to continue to increase in strength due to the pyramid. Well, it was....

Some of the lower league setups in mainland Europe are appalling in comparison tbh. 

 

 

More supporters going to watch games of football doesn't equate to a better standard of play.

Look at our clubs' European co-efficient compared to other leagues abroad.  You only need to look at some of the results by Killie or whoever else gets knocked out before R1 Europa league to see how strong our league structure is by comparison - there's no real strength in depth.

Changing to 12-12-12-12 won't change that - it's not a 'restructure' of something good,  just adding more numbers playing each other 4 times a season the length and breadth of the country. 

We have 2 pro-leagues of, overall, mediocrity. And then part-time football beneath that - deluded to think it's somehow any better than lower level football in Europe.

Over the piece we get old school up-and-at 'em, kick and rush, run run run, roll it back to the GK to scud it up the pitch - it's mostly not a treat to watch - and that's reflected in our football all the way up to the national team.

But that's not always the case at u16, u17, u19 - the problem is bridging the gap or transition between youth and adult professional football and getting our best young players playing at the top level v men in Scotland or abroad.

[david11]

 

4 hours ago, Thistle Scotland Europe said:

We need to have all big sides playing colt teams in the lower leagues.

This is about making sure Scottish players develop.

They do it in Croatia, and they have reached a World Cup Final, and just knocked us out of the EURO 2020.  

 

 

On 19/06/2021 at 14:33, Dundee Hibernian said:

Wee update from yesterday's Hampden battle of the national sides which have benefitted from having colt/b-sides in their systems.

Czech Republic 1 (zero ex colts in their starting side) Croatia 1 (3 ex cots in their side, totalling  a massive 14 games between them at b level).

Dominik Livaković 1 game
Josip Brekalo 9 games
Joško Gvardiol 4 games

[Benidorm]

3 hours ago, Che Dail said:

More supporters going to watch games of football doesn't equate to a better standard of play.

Look at our clubs' European co-efficient compared to other leagues abroad.  You only need to look at some of the results by Killie or whoever else gets knocked out before R1 Europa league to see how strong our league structure is by comparison - there's no real strength in depth.

Changing to 12-12-12-12 won't change that - it's not a 'restructure' of something good,  just adding more numbers playing each other 4 times a season the length and breadth of the country. 

We have 2 pro-leagues of, overall, mediocrity. And then part-time football beneath that - deluded to think it's somehow any better than lower level football in Europe.

Over the piece we get old school up-and-at 'em, kick and rush, run run run, roll it back to the GK to scud it up the pitch - it's mostly not a treat to watch - and that's reflected in our football all the way up to the national team.

But that's not always the case at u16, u17, u19 - the problem is bridging the gap or transition between youth and adult professional football and getting our best young players playing at the top level v men in Scotland or abroad.

Well eh yeah it is. Our teams have fanbases which equates to infrastructure and resources that clubs with an average attendance of 250 don't have in the second tier in Croatia.  There's less opportunities for these players to play full time in their own country and a colts team of some sort at least provides an additional opportunity in that instance, if you completely ignore the fact crowds are so universally low it's unlikely many give a shit anyway. Its lunacy to think someone from Celtic or Rangers who goes on loan to a lower end full time team like Falkirk or Morton or Queen of the South and struggles will instead become a star just because they stayed within the Colt setup to play at an even lower level than those clubs. It's insincere bullshit highlighted when Celtic bring in ringers from England to play against students in the LL.

[superbigal]

Sorry too many pages. When the Colts were ratified at the AGM did any team change their votes ?
Or was there not a vote ?

[Carlos99]

8 hours ago, BFTD said:

I'm obviously not in favour of such a thing actually happening, but imagine if Celtgers ended up having to withdraw their B teams because the backup players they were trying to keep match fit ended up getting the shit kicked out of them on a weekly basis by opposition players sick of having their time wasted by some of the most pointless quasi-friendly matches imaginable.

Be a wee shame.

"getting the shit kicked out of them"  so the knuckle draggers win eh that sounds about right  in Scotland the ersehole o world football

[LongTimeLurker]

Don't think Croatia is a particularly good example because colt teams are a relatively recent innovation there. Dinamo Zagreb loaned out Luka Modric first to Zrinjski Mostar the leading ethnically Croat club in the top Bosnian league and then to Inter Zapresic who are from the greater Zagreb area (their equivalent of a St Mirren or Motherwell type club basically) who would almost certainly have been full-time clubs at the time. The Old Firm colt teams would have to be Championship level rather than LL or League Two to provide something even vaguely comparable to that pathway.

[Dundee Hibernian]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Don't think Croatia is a particularly good example because colt teams are a relatively recent innovation there. Dinamo Zagreb loaned out Luka Modric first to Zrinjski Mostar the leading ethnically Croat club in the top Bosnian league and then to Inter Zapresic who are from the greater Zagreb area (their equivalent of a St Mirren or Motherwell type club basically) who would almost certainly have been full-time clubs at the time. The Old Firm colt teams would have to be Championship level rather than LL or League Two to provide something even vaguely comparable to that pathway.

It's a good example in that few of the Croat side have played in colt teams, in a system running in Croatia since 2015-16: an 18 year old at the outset would now be 22-23. A better example may be the Czech Republic, never quoted by exponents of B sides, as they have had colts in their leagues since 2001-02, and had no ex colt players in their team which has qualified above Scotland for the Euro knock out stages.

7 hours ago, david11 said:

 

 

The Croatia team which beat Scotland had Livakovic (1 game in the Colt system) and Gvardiol (4 colt appearances). Make of that what you wish.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Dundee Hibernian

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

The Croatia team which beat Scotland had Livakovic (1 game in the Colt system) and Gvardiol (4 colt appearances). Make of that what you wish.

Even without the one game stat, Livakovic is an awful example of 'B' teams as a development tool. He had played over a 100 first team games for another club. The majority of which were in the Croation top flight.

If he had played a full season for the 'B' team it would be more highlighting how these 2nd XIs are used to hoard young talent.

[Honestman1954]

13 hours ago, Thistle Scotland Europe said:

We need to have all big sides playing colt teams in the lower leagues.

This is about making sure Scottish players develop.

They do it in Croatia, and they have reached a World Cup Final, and just knocked us out of the EURO 2020.  

They do it Germany, Spain, France, the Netherlands and Portugal.

Why are they more patriotic than us? Why do they care more about developing young players there? Why are there so many people in Scotland who want to see their own country not produce top players.

I cannot understand what people’s problem with having colt teams in the lower divisions.

Aberdeen, Motherwell, Dundee, Dundee United, Hearts and Hibs should also have colt teams in the lower leagues.

For me the priority of Scottish football should be;

1. To have a strong international side.

2. To have club sides that do well in Europe.

 

This way the Celtic and Rangers can buy in great foreign and experienced players but still develop great Scottish players, regardless. It is the perfect solution.

 

Why do some traitorous clowns think it is more important that a part time team finishes 4 or 5 places higher in the league than Scotland producing great player?

They would rather the Scotland team got slaughtered than their precious part time team 4 places lower in the lower divisions.

 

I cannot see why playing a b team is so terrible. When most part time clubs do not mind Celtic or Rangers sending a virtual B team to play a friendly or cup game.

It is just conservative nonsense, from fans who are offended by an idea that helps Scotland produce better players.

The point in having strong grassroots is to have a strong national team. There is no point in having strong grassroots but a rubbish national team.

Is there not a reserve league?

[San Starko Rover]

Here we go again, it’s not even once a season now it’s every few weeks we have to kick this back into the sea.  If the powers that be in Scottish football spent as much time on improving coaching, improving facilities and actually helping develop youngsters in this country as they have on this pile of shite we’d be bloody Brazil by now never mind Croatia. Work on coaching, spend money improving local facilities and perhaps try and get our top division to be more competitive than a fist fight between Muhammad Ali and Mother Teresa and we might produce some better players who’ve got the ability to pass and move. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by San Starko Rover