Celtic and Hearts B Teams in Lowland League?

[invergowrie arab]

11 hours ago, bravehearts dad said:

And a legal challenge from the guest team that don’t gain admission. The decent honest clubs in the LL of course voted against any guest clubs.

C’mon The Rose

There is no basis for a legal challenge whatsoever. The LL are essentially in a tendering process

Of course it didn't stop Hearts before.

[Sparticus]

My god if hearts b gets rejected we’ll have a whole summer of sportsound specials telling us how unfair it is.

[cmontheloknow]

1 hour ago, Sparticus said:

My god if hearts b gets rejected we’ll have a whole summer of sportsound specials telling us how unfair it is.

'Biscuits' will be soggy with tears.

[RiG]

2 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

'Biscuits' will be soggy with tears.

He probably already is given that Yogi is about to be canned by Dunfermline.

[tamthebam]

In case City stick with Friday nights and I want to go to a LL game on the Saturday I need a handy guide here from those in the know. 

Last time round: 

Good Guys (voted against Colts): Strollers, Bonnyrigg, Bo'ness United, Edin Uni and Dalbeattie 
W@nks; The Rest

This time round:

Good Guys: 
W@nks: 

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Good Guys: Open Goal Broomhill FC
W@nks: A bunch of nobodies who don't even have a proper podcast in their name. 

[craigkillie]

I noticed they didn't do a poll for increased relegation vote though I wonder why!

I think they did, I'm sure I read it on here.

[John S]

2 hours ago, tamthebam said:

In case City stick with Friday nights and I want to go to a LL game on the Saturday I need a handy guide here from those in the know. 

Last time round: 

Good Guys (voted against Colts): Strollers, Bonnyrigg, Bo'ness United, Edin Uni and Dalbeattie 
W@nks; The Rest

This time round:

Good Guys: 
W@nks: 

Bo'ness again voted against the colts and this time round so did the Shire. Don't know about the rest 

[FairWeatherFan]

The 19 team league proposal looks to have failed.

More fun and games to come i'm sure.

[Marten]

19 hours ago, John S said:

Bo'ness again voted against the colts and this time round so did the Shire. Don't know about the rest 

If I'm not mistaken, Bonnyrigg Rose & Civil Service Strollers did as well.

[LongTimeLurker]

Hopefully the restraint of trade lawsuit from Ann Budge rumour was legit. No idea about the legal merits of that and will wait for an actual lawyer to comment either here or in the mainstream media before assuming it's a non-starter, but even if something like that made life awkward for the LL in terms of running up legal costs it's potentially worth doing if someone has money to burn.  

[Dev]

Did an exercise using attendance figures put together by an enthusiast elsewhere on a Lowland League thread. Taking a guesstimated typical average £10 per person cost of entry to a league match. Tried to figure out the gate money income for each Lowland League club this season from playing C and R.

These have been the equivalent of pre-season friendlies but played during the season.

Does not take anything else into account e.g. costs and other types of turnover e.g. pies, beer sales, prog sales etc..

 

Extra Gate Income if £10 / person
		£
Bonnyrigg Rose		11,920
Berwick Rangers		10,140
Cumbernauld Colts		9,460
Dalbeattie Star		8,980
Bo'ness United		8,300
Spartans		7,710
Caledonian Braves		7,590
Gretna 2008		7,500
Gala Fairydean		7,450
Vale of Leithen		7,090
East Kilbride		5,600
East Stirlingshire		5,090
Civil Service Strollers		4,300
Broomhill		3,460
Edinburgh University		3,300
University of Stirling		2,500
Total Extra Turnover:		110,390

[invergowrie arab]

5 minutes ago, Dev said:

Did an exercise using attendance figures put together by an enthusiast elsewhere on a Lowland League thread. Taking a guesstimated typical average £10 per person cost of entry to a league match. Tried to figure out the gate money income for each Lowland League club this season from playing C and R.

These have been the equivalent of pre-season friendlies but played during the season.

Does not take anything else into account e.g. costs and other types of turnover e.g. pies, beer sales, prog sales etc..

 

Extra Gate Income if £10 / person
		£
Bonnyrigg Rose		11,920
Berwick Rangers		10,140
Cumbernauld Colts		9,460
Dalbeattie Star		8,980
Bo'ness United		8,300
Spartans		7,710
Caledonian Braves		7,590
Gretna 2008		7,500
Gala Fairydean		7,450
Vale of Leithen		7,090
East Kilbride		5,600
East Stirlingshire		5,090
Civil Service Strollers		4,300
Broomhill		3,460
Edinburgh University		3,300
University of Stirling		2,500
Total Extra Turnover:		110,390

Presumably these matches are covered by season tickets so this isn't game income.

 

[FairWeatherFan]

22 minutes ago, Dev said:

Did an exercise using attendance figures put together by an enthusiast elsewhere on a Lowland League thread. Taking a guesstimated typical average £10 per person cost of entry to a league match.

Does not take anything else into account e.g. costs and other types of turnover e.g. pies, beer sales, prog sales etc..

 

What's the point of creating an artificially high price of entry if it wasn't to try and cover the additional revenues?

We know with season tickets, the average adult ticket price being about £7, and other concessions/discounts that £10 is nowhere near the average cost of entry. I think it was only VoL in the Rangers game that bumped the adult ticket price to £10.

[Gimme]

Did an exercise using attendance figures put together by an enthusiast elsewhere on a Lowland League thread. Taking a guesstimated typical average £10 per person cost of entry to a league match. Tried to figure out the gate money income for each Lowland League club this season from playing C and R.
These have been the equivalent of pre-season friendlies but played during the season.
Does not take anything else into account e.g. costs and other types of turnover e.g. pies, beer sales, prog sales etc..
 

Extra Gate Income if £10 / person
		£
Bonnyrigg Rose		11,920
Berwick Rangers		10,140
Cumbernauld Colts		9,460
Dalbeattie Star		8,980
Bo'ness United		8,300
Spartans		7,710
Caledonian Braves		7,590
Gretna 2008		7,500
Gala Fairydean		7,450
Vale of Leithen		7,090
East Kilbride		5,600
East Stirlingshire		5,090
Civil Service Strollers		4,300
Broomhill		3,460
Edinburgh University		3,300
University of Stirling		2,500
Total Extra Turnover:		110,390

Bonnyrigg made nothing from the Celtic game as it was season ticket holders only in attendance. Other clubs must have had similar issues during the early part of the season.

For the Rangers game, you need to deduct season ticket holders from the gate then use an average of probably £5 a head for admission (actual costs are £7/4), that means that somewhere around £3k was taken through the turnstiles that day.

[DiegoDiego]

And that's extra turnover compared to not playing those games, not compared to playing Tranent and Auchinleck (or whomever) instead (which would of course be largely conjecture).

[peternapper]

2 hours ago, Dev said:

Did an exercise using attendance figures put together by an enthusiast elsewhere on a Lowland League thread. Taking a guesstimated typical average £10 per person cost of entry to a league match. Tried to figure out the gate money income for each Lowland League club this season from playing C and R.

These have been the equivalent of pre-season friendlies but played during the season.

Does not take anything else into account e.g. costs and other types of turnover e.g. pies, beer sales, prog sales etc..

 

Extra Gate Income if £10 / person
		£
Bonnyrigg Rose		11,920
Berwick Rangers		10,140
Cumbernauld Colts		9,460
Dalbeattie Star		8,980
Bo'ness United		8,300
Spartans		7,710
Caledonian Braves		7,590
Gretna 2008		7,500
Gala Fairydean		7,450
Vale of Leithen		7,090
East Kilbride		5,600
East Stirlingshire		5,090
Civil Service Strollers		4,300
Broomhill		3,460
Edinburgh University		3,300
University of Stirling		2,500
Total Extra Turnover:		110,390

Sporting integrity of the league  PRICELESS or should be 

[Gimme]

And that's extra turnover compared to not playing those games, not compared to playing Tranent and Auchinleck (or whomever) instead (which would of course be largely conjecture).

So what you're saying is the inclusion of the colts in the league benefited a club like Bonnyrigg to a sum of money which would be unlikely to cover a week's wages for a 20 man squad plus manager and coaches. Truly a success then.

[Dev]

Lots of good points. A few more figures:

		Home Total	total incl	c and r %
		excl C and R	c and r	of overall total
Cumbernauld Colts		1578	2524	37.4
Vale of Leithen		1448	2157	32.8
Caledonian Braves		1713	2472	30.7
Dalbeattie Star		2431	3329	26.9
Gala Fairydean		2133	2878	25.8
Gretna 2008		2217	2967	25.2
Civil Service Strollers		1383	1813	23.7
Broomhill		1164	1510	22.9
East Stirlingshire		2120	2629	19.3
Edinburgh University		1378	1708	19.3
Spartans		3226	3997	19.2
East Kilbride		2368	2928	19.1
Berwick Rangers		5389	6403	18.8
Bo'ness United		4015	4845	17.1
University of Stirling		1462	1712	14.6
Bonnyrigg Rose		8791	9983	11.9
Totals		42816	25.7

[Marten]

And what if Celtic and Rangers were replaced by say Tranent & Auchinleck Talbot? They are 2 clubs with a big support, so they would also bring large away crowds. On average, they wouldn't bring much less, likely more, than the OF B teams. And with these 2 clubs you'd at least keep the integrity of the pyramid.