Celtic and Hearts B Teams in Lowland League?

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

It won't be an issue between tiers 5 and 6 in the North until more teams are licensed. It's not just a box ticking thing, you need floodlights to cope with an 18 team league plus cup games.

Much the same was said about the LL's pro/rel arrangements when the league first emerged and some of the posters who are now bemoaning what's happening on that issue were assuring anyone who would listen on here that it would all soon get sorted out at the next LL AGM after most of the east superleague clubs had joined the EoS. Some people can't deal with nuanced arguments that move beyond a simple binary one side good other side bad scenario.

Spartans and Cove Rangers engineered the emergence of a new league structure that would help facilitate their own SPFL entry and were never really interested in the emergence of a full pyramid that would make it possible for junior clubs to do that as well. If/when the likes of Darvel, Pollok, Clydebank and Talbot arrive in the LL the likelihood of clubs like Spartans and EK getting promoted into the SPFL will plummet so it isn't necessarily just the bottom dwellers that are guided by a self-interest agenda on this.

The bottleneck issue will probably get sorted eventually in an LL context though once there is an ex-junior/ex-SPFL majority. Good luck where the HL is concerned as there's likely to be fewer Christmas averse turkeys getting replaced there over the next decade.

Edited April 6, 2022 by LongTimeLurker

[Burnieman]

24 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Much the same was said about the LL's pro/rel arrangements when the league first emerged and some of the posters who are now bemoaning what's happening on that issue were assuring anyone who would listen on here that it would all soon get sorted out at the next LL AGM after most of the east superleague clubs had joined the EoS. Some people can't deal with nuanced arguments that move beyond a simple binary one side good other side bad scenario.

Spartans and Cove Rangers engineered the emergence of a new league structure that would help facilitate their own SPFL entry and were never really interested in the emergence of a full pyramid that would make it possible for junior clubs to do that as well. If/when the likes of Darvel, Pollok, Clydebank and Talbot arrive in the LL the likelihood of clubs like Spartans and EK getting promoted into the SPFL will plummet so it isn't necessarily just the bottom dwellers that are guided by a self-interest agenda on this.

The bottleneck issue will probably get sorted eventually in an LL context though once there is an ex-junior/ex-SPFL majority. Good luck where the HL is concerned as there's likely to be fewer Christmas averse turkeys getting replaced there over the next decade.

Here we go again     

If anyone can't deal with arguments, nuanced or not, or even basic facts, it's most definitely you.  Give it a rest FFS.

[Burnieman]

1 hour ago, Blootoon87 said:

3 hours ago, Burnieman said:

In a way good, the more B teams apply, the more awkward it gets for the LL.

It also makes a mockery of the colts playing against senior pros if around half of the league is made up of colt teams.

Well if the vote was specifically to allow "guest teams" as opposed to "let the OF continue", then they open themselves upto further applications. What do they do then...

[edinabear]

On 04/04/2022 at 22:09, edinabear said:

 

Listened to the Official catch up. Hearts and Hibs were not ruled out. Looks like it's happening. 

[FairWeatherFan]

36 minutes ago, edinabear said:

Listened to the Official catch up. Hearts and Hibs were not ruled out. Looks like it's happening. 

You do realise that Hearts and Hibs in = Celtic and Rangers out?

[LongTimeLurker]

21 minutes ago, edinabear said:

Listened to the Official catch up. Hearts and Hibs were not ruled out. Looks like it's happening. 

Interesting leap in logic there.

If it's still open to application and there's a hypothetical that could go to a membership vote odds on it won't be ruled out by an officeholder. Also worth bearing in mind though that it was only the Old Firm that pitched a proposal to the LL clubs at the recent general meeting.

AFAIR VoL were furious last season about being left in a position where they could potentially have been relegated when the season wasn't null and voided. Think moving beyond 18 clubs might be problematic in terms of the current rulebook.

[AlansHotBath]

Listening to the Official Catch-Up interview with Thomas Brown, it was interesting to here part of the original OF money was spent on "PR consultancy to assist the board" (alongside paying insurance for all clubs, spending on reserve league and social media output). Given the current reputation of the League they may want to look for a refund for that bit...

[jamamafegan]

Of course it's just paper talk, but Hearts are looking into applying to the Lowland League. I doubt they'll stump up the money this season, and the LL Board will end up saying that the OF were the only two interested parties. However, it should be obvious to anyone that it's only going to one way now the door is open.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/20046547.hearts-considering-joining-celtic-rangers-applying-field-colts-team-lowland-league/

What a mess. Where do you draw the line? If Hearts get in then any of the other Premiership clubs have a claim to submit their colts. Eventually you’ll just end up with a reserves league with lowland league jobbers in them.

Would be great if a new league could be formed at tier 5 somehow and the lowland league totally left behind. As well as ‘the 4’ there are enough clubs from other leagues to make it happen. It would be a league formed with the right intentions and with sporting integrity at its heart. Perhaps a simple 10 league team with 3 teams from WoSL, 2 from EoSL and 1 from SoSL as an example.

[FairWeatherFan]

9 minutes ago, AlansHotBath said:

Listening to the Official Catch-Up interview with Thomas Brown, it was interesting to here part of the original OF money was spent on "PR consultancy to assist the board" (alongside paying insurance for all clubs, spending on reserve league and social media output). Given the current reputation of the League they may want to look for a refund for that bit...

My main gripes. The Lowland League can't expand to 18 because it's not in the Rules. When the Lowland League have basically changed their rules almost every season. If they wanted to they could, and based on the promotion/relegation vote a majority right now don't.

And the problem of weakened teams will be solved by allowing more postponements during International weeks. Pushing more games into midweek football.

[LongTimeLurker]

http://slfl.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/SLFL-Rules-Version-18.pdf

Scottish Lowland Football League
Constitution and Rules
Version 18 – updated 1 November 2021

B1 All clubs must, on the Completion Date, be licensed, full members of the Scottish FA. The
maximum number of clubs will normally be sixteen (16) but may be increased temporarily to a
maximum of eighteen (18) at the sole discretion of the Board.

[Burnieman]

On 05/04/2022 at 12:03, Burnieman said:

It's now clear that the LL will not significantly change it's pro/rel stance, at the most we'll get 1.5 spots (ie add a play-off with second bottom) as a next step

So listening on the podcast, the LL Chairman's personal opinion is for only 1 auto and 1 PO spot.  From a 16 team league.  That's what you're up against.

Unsurprisingly, the interview didn't inspire any hope to be honest (interviewing was a bit rubbish), and he has a healthy dislike for social media and fan opinions. Very poor.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Burnieman

[bravehearts dad]

1 hour ago, jamamafegan said:

 

What a mess. Where do you draw the line? If Hearts get in then any of the other Premiership clubs have a claim to submit their colts. Eventually you’ll just end up with a reserves league with lowland league jobbers in them.

Would be great if a new league could be formed at tier 5 somehow and the lowland league totally left behind. As well as ‘the 4’ there are enough clubs from other leagues to make it happen. It would be a league formed with the right intentions and with sporting integrity at its heart. Perhaps a simple 10 league team with 3 teams from WoSL, 2 from EoSL and 1 from SoSL as an example.

 

I must admit I like the idea you mention in para 2.  As you say form a league with the right intentions and integrity, and forget all the diddy clubs who cuddle up to the idea of Colts teams in the League. 
 

C’mon The Rose

[stm]

1 hour ago, AlansHotBath said:

Listening to the Official Catch-Up interview with Thomas Brown, it was interesting to here part of the original OF money was spent on "PR consultancy to assist the board" (alongside paying insurance for all clubs, spending on reserve league and social media output). Given the current reputation of the League they may want to look for a refund for that bit...

 

38 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

So listening on the podcast, the LL Chairman's personal opinion is for only 1 auto and 1 PO spot.  From a 16 team league.  That's what you're up against.

Unsurprisingly, the interview didn't inspire any hope to be honest (interviewing was a bit rubbish), and he has a healthy dislike for social media and fan opinions. Very poor.

A pittance well spent then.

[beachboy]

21 hours ago, cowdenbeath said:

Don't know how true it is but a few people in this neck of the woods say that Dundonald Bluebell offered £25k for a place in the LL after the 2 B sides got in, the East and West big hitters should do the same.

Don't know about Dundonald but Tranent Juniors FC offered the 25k and were quickly dismissed by GF.

[Crossbar]

Another contentious vote coming up [emoji51]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/lowland-league-hearts-interest-raises-prospect-of-another-controversial-vote-3643160

[RossBFaeDundee]

Gee, I wonder what two guest clubs they'll invite in.

[Gordon EF]

1 hour ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

Gee, I wonder what two guest clubs they'll invite in.

The suspense will kill us all.

[cowdenbeath]

2 hours ago, beachboy said:

Don't know about Dundonald but Tranent Juniors FC offered the 25k and were quickly dismissed by GF.

I just heard the Dundonald story maybe both of them did.

can’t blame either side for doing it there money would just be as good as the Glasgow sides.

 

[BuddyZero]

I read these things a lot but never have anything wise, witty or new info worth contributing.

The LL attitude to both the colts and the relegation is depressing but predictable. Hearts sticking an oar in actually encourages me (although that soon ends up as fantasy) that there could be another solution: Lowland West and East. Establishing a third league at tier 5 for next season could accomplish several things:

* the self preservation mob in the LL would all get to stay at tier 5, some going in East and some in West 

* old firm colts could go in West league, Edinburgh ones in East (with a prohibitively high entry fee to discourage others in the future, suggest 200k pa - as it should have been last year and this as well IMO, if they want the privilege they should pay properly for it - maybe Aberdeen could apply for Highland league based on that but few if any others), not ideal when many want no colts at all, but no worse than what's there already and it doesn't look like the concept is going away, at least not until the novelty wears off for senior support, they no longer go to B team games and part of the financial incentive for the semi pros fades away. Til then, it would perhaps be more tolerable if the other issues faced by the clubs became more favourable.

*having a straight path of promotion for WOSFL and EOSFL would remove much of the bottleneck experienced by the ex Juniors currently feeding into a single division with ridiculously few promotion opportunities m. There would still be a bit of an imbalance between the West and East overall, but that may never be solved - and BTW the SOSFL would be attached to the EOSFL as in the old days to address that imbalance a bit. 

*most if not all of the most well run / ambitious / sugar daddied EOS and WOS could get up to tier 5 in one fell swoop

* having a 3rd feeder at Tier 5 should force SPFL to open up the promotion situation above too: my own (again, wishful) suggestion would be 10th in League 2 goes straight down, and 9th plays off in a mini group with High, West and East = 4 teams for 2 places.

So, a 3rd Tier 5 league would solve almost all the problems in one fell swoop. Too simplistic? Too sensible? 

[FairWeatherFan]

12 minutes ago, BuddyZero said:

So, a 3rd Tier 5 league would solve almost all the problems in one fell swoop. Too simplistic? Too sensible? 

I can only see the SPFL accepting a 3rd feeder with the trade off being 4 way playoff between the 3 champions and Club 42.