Celtic and Hearts B Teams in Lowland League?

[RiG]

5 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Uft, just uft. Im actually cringing for him sitting there typing that pish out, imagine how absolutely much of a riddy that exchange is. Even before we were all proven right this is right up here with the ‘Tony’ fiasco in terms of absolute fantasy and lunacy. 

Yikes...

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 hour ago, jamamafegan said:

There’s been some awful, awful decisions been made in recent years regarding Scottish Football. Aberdeen voting with Celtic to keep the 11-1 voting structure. The lowland league voting the colts in (twice). Next it will be the Premiership clubs voting through VAR. Why can’t we go back to the days when clubs actually had a backbone and fucked Rangers into the 3rd division?

f**k the lowland league, f**k the clubs who voted for this and f**k the old firm. Bunch of absolute fucking c***s. If there is any justice in the world the lowland League will meet a grim end and the 11 who voted for this will suffer.

There was no backbone involved in that decision, just a different application of self interest to make sure as many as possible accessed the blue pound.

Backbone would have been binning them for good.

[FairWeatherFan]

Seems there's a bigger buy in this year.

Edited April 5, 2022 by FairWeatherFan

[Gordon EF]

1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

There was no backbone involved in that decision, just a different application of self interest to make sure as many as possible accessed the blue pound.

Backbone would have been binning them for good.

Aye. Our idiot of a Rangers supporting chairman at the time apprently spent more money on erecting temporary terracing than we ever got in gate money for those two games. Still he got to share a drink with a couple of folk wearing Rangers ties and pretend he was someone important for a few hours so it wasn't all bad.

[jamamafegan]

There was no backbone involved in that decision, just a different application of self interest to make sure as many as possible accessed the blue pound.
Backbone would have been binning them for good.

True but at least they weren’t kept in the top flight/parachuted into the 1st Division as what was being proposed at the time.

[newcastle broon]

43 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Was it really or were a lot of people on here blind to its many failings because of an overly simplistic juniors backward & bad vs seniors progressive & good mindset?

It's probably going to take 15 to 20 years from its launch for the LL to finally be the league it should have been from the very outset. It's not just Tom Johnston who is to blame for that.

Who else are you blaming? 

[newcastle broon]

4 hours ago, Burnieman said:

He's been gone a year now oor Jerry.  Maybe he is no longer a "fan" of BSC/Broomhill?

I always thought Jerry was George. 

 

4 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The way I remember it he became a BSC fan because of his kid had some involvement. Hopefully he just decided to dip out when the split took place and not something more serious happening to him personally.

You could be right this has happened a lot over the years where there has been such opinionated posts from players dads then when the player has left the club the dad has disappeared altogether. 

[8MileBU]

1 hour ago, Gordon EF said:

Because, if you're a glorified pub team who can barely afford to cobble together an utterly uncompetitive squad to play in front of a few dozen friends and family, you have no business being at tier 5 in the new pyramid structure. Rather than take their medicine, go down, and find their place in the structure, these arse holes are closing off "ventilation" and making a mockery of the LL as a competition by inviting in boys teams who can't be promoted or relegated but who everyone has to play 'competitive' games against.

The dross at the bottom of the LL aren't saving themselves by catering to a few hundred OF fans without the bus fare. They're just delaying the inevitable, that they're swallowed up and shat out when the ex-juniors start filling up the LL. The fact that they're willing to wreck the league whilst they're stilling clawing onto their place in it is worthy of being bad-mouthed.

This may well be the case for some teams but not all, and ultimately whether some teams aren’t good enough for the Lowland League now, they ultimately got there fairly in the first place. Of course some clubs will be in self preservation mode, but as per my previous post, not all clubs are (mainly those that aren’t reliant on the Old Firm handout), but again they’ve been afforded a fight or flight option that should never have been presented to them in the first place.

[Whitburn Vale]

2 hours ago, welshbairn said:

If Clach voted for anything like that up here I'd start following Inverness Athletic instead. Combined with the vote on promotion/relegation with tier 6 they really are a cowardly self serving bunch of hypocrites.  "Promising early indications of young, emerging Scottish talents benefiting from early exposure to senior football in a competitive environment" my arse.

Thankfully when Inverness Caledonian Thistle applied to the SHFL for to include their "B" team,the HL clubs told them to bolt..........

Though a fair whack ended up as loanees in Fort William's team the following season.

Thankfully it's looking like Fort will get their just deserts for that and all their other shenanigans at the hands of Banks o Dee  

 

[Burnieman]

5 hours ago, 8MileBU said:

Following Bo’ness this season I’ve been asked and also had a few conversations with fans of other LL clubs with regards the B-Teams. I have heard (and admittedly seen) arguments for and against their inclusion.

Some LL clubs have very little fan support, have little financial backing or resources and/or a small number of ageing committee members who for years (and all credit to them) have put endless hours grafting to find every penny required to ensure their club can pay the wages, pay the bills, invest and compete. 

In these instances I can appreciate why some clubs have opted not to look a couple of gift-horses in the mouth and grabbed Celtic and Rangers pay-to-play payments, (albeit they should both be paying a whole lot more than they are!)

Aside of the pay-to-play payments, in many instances several clubs will have voted for the inclusion of the B-Teams again for next season because they drew the biggest gate at many grounds this season. Indeed I’ve seen it with my own eyes at Bo’ness when I’d say Celtic then Rangers have pulled in our biggest crowds this season. (Credit to B.U for voting NO again). 

Yes - it’s pish having them start anywhere beyond the lowest rung. Yes - it’s pish that they’ve a direct affect on how the pyramid works.
Yes - it’s utter pish that Lowland  clubs have been able to make money from their inclusion.

However, with all that said, I still can’t see what’s to be gained by bad mouthing every and any club who voted to keep the B-Teams in the LL. Some will be plain greedy b*****ds, but some will have genuinely valid reasons for voting them in. The problem is that they should never have been placed in the position in the first place. 

For me the bad-mouthing should be firmly aimed at the (formerly) pyramid-championing blazers who oversee all things Scottish Football. They could’ve and should’ve punted the proposed inclusion of the B-Teams in the Lowland League into the long grass within 10 seconds of the idea being mooted.

Sorry, the same clubs that voted them into the LL to start with (they could have voted no) are the same clubs who have voted for them to continue.   These clubs created the problem in the first place and deserve all the criticism coming their way. Nobody else to blame.

There's plenty of clubs who would love increased gates, but they don't seek to shaft the integrity of the Pyramid in trying to get them. If B teams wanted in, they start at the bottom.

[Burnieman]

4 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Was it really or were a lot of people on here blind to its many failings because of an overly simplistic juniors backward & bad vs seniors progressive & good mindset?

It's probably going to take 15 to 20 years from its launch for the LL to finally be the league it should have been from the very outset. It's not just Tom Johnston who is to blame for that.

No, you're engaging in a healthy does of revisionism, again.

The problems we're now facing with the LL really has it's roots with TJ and his cronies and we all know why, it's been done to death on here.

Colts, Braves, BSC etc all took advantage of the "gap in the market" to grab a place in tier 5 and are now engaging in a war of attrition to save their backsides.

That gap would never have existed had the SJFA engaged positively with the concept of the LL at the very outset.   They didn't, and here we are.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Burnieman

[FairWeatherFan]

Of course it's just paper talk, but Hearts are looking into applying to the Lowland League. I doubt they'll stump up the money this season, and the LL Board will end up saying that the OF were the only two interested parties. However, it should be obvious to anyone that it's only going to one way now the door is open.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/20046547.hearts-considering-joining-celtic-rangers-applying-field-colts-team-lowland-league/

[Burnieman]

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Of course it's just paper talk, but Hearts are looking into applying to the Lowland League. I doubt they'll stump up the money this season, and the LL Board will end up saying that the OF were the only two interested parties. However, it should be obvious to anyone that it's only going to one way now the door is open.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/20046547.hearts-considering-joining-celtic-rangers-applying-field-colts-team-lowland-league/

In a way good, the more B teams apply, the more awkward it gets for the LL.

[Samsonite]

As an outsider looking in not a fan at all of the B/Colts team in the LL but also noticing a lot of comments saying there are a few teams who don't deserve to be in the LL due to being fairly new clubs or small fan base etc from fans of clubs in the EOSL and WOSL, all of the big junior clubs have had plenty of opportunities to apply to join the LL over the years if they wanted but opted to remain in juniors.

 

Now there is a pyramid they seem to think they have god given right to play in the LL above these other clubs, I personally think there should be more promotion/relegation to/from LL as there should in the HL but I don't blame the teams for voting against this when they have been and are continued to be looked down upon by ex junior clubs.

 

 

[FairWeatherFan]

10 minutes ago, Samsonite said:

As an outsider looking in not a fan at all of the B/Colts team in the LL but also noticing a lot of comments saying there are a few teams who don't deserve to be in the LL due to being fairly new clubs or small fan base etc from fans of clubs in the EOSL and WOSL, all of the big junior clubs have had plenty of opportunities to apply to join the LL over the years if they wanted but opted to remain in juniors.

 

Now there is a pyramid they seem to think they have god given right to play in the LL above these other clubs, I personally think there should be more promotion/relegation to/from LL as there should in the HL but I don't blame the teams for voting against this when they have been and are continued to be looked down upon by ex junior clubs.

The EoSFL have been pursuing increased promotion since the 2017-18 season. This isn't anything new.

There's been plenty of Lowland League affiliated people doing the same to the SPFL2 clubs. It's interchangeable with T6/LL slagging LL/SPFL2. It's hard to have any sympathy.

18 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

In a way good, the more B teams apply, the more awkward it gets for the LL.

True. Chances are Hearts and Hibs won't actually do anything this season that could lead to it being scuppered.

[Burnieman]

15 minutes ago, Samsonite said:

As an outsider looking in not a fan at all of the B/Colts team in the LL but also noticing a lot of comments saying there are a few teams who don't deserve to be in the LL due to being fairly new clubs or small fan base etc from fans of clubs in the EOSL and WOSL, all of the big junior clubs have had plenty of opportunities to apply to join the LL over the years if they wanted but opted to remain in juniors.

Yes we know.

15 minutes ago, Samsonite said:

Now there is a pyramid they seem to think they have god given right to play in the LL above these other clubs, I personally think there should be more promotion/relegation to/from LL as there should in the HL but I don't blame the teams for voting against this when they have been and are continued to be looked down upon by ex junior clubs.

I don't think wanting more than one promotion place is expressing a "God given right" to be honest, just a fair crack of the whip. 

The highlighted part sums up the attitude of some of these clubs, a big boy said some nasty things so we're going to f*ck up the Pyramid.  Believe me, some of these clubs think they have a "God given right" to a LL place, as they founded it, it's theirs.....

[jimbaxters]

8 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Yes we know.

I don't think wanting more than one promotion place is expressing a "God given right" to be honest, just a fair crack of the whip. 

The highlighted part sums up the attitude of some of these clubs, a big boy said some nasty things so we're going to f*ck up the Pyramid.  Believe me, some of these clubs think they have a "God given right" to a LL place, as they founded it, it's theirs.....

Absolutely. Ex Junior clubs have already progressed and are currently progressing through the LL so it's not unreasonable to think that others might do the same. There are many of these Ex J clubs who had no choice but to join the pyramid and have now changed their mid to long term goals accordingly. The bottleneck is an obstacle. A pyramid which contains an element who actively vote to repress progression is intrinsically flawed.

[Gordon EF]

39 minutes ago, Samsonite said:

As an outsider looking in not a fan at all of the B/Colts team in the LL but also noticing a lot of comments saying there are a few teams who don't deserve to be in the LL due to being fairly new clubs or small fan base etc from fans of clubs in the EOSL and WOSL, all of the big junior clubs have had plenty of opportunities to apply to join the LL over the years if they wanted but opted to remain in juniors.

 

Now there is a pyramid they seem to think they have god given right to play in the LL above these other clubs, I personally think there should be more promotion/relegation to/from LL as there should in the HL but I don't blame the teams for voting against this when they have been and are continued to be looked down upon by ex junior clubs.

 

 

In a proper pyramid with fair promotion and relegation routes, everyone ends up where they 'deserve' to be sooner or later. And it's got nothing to do with history or name or fan base (well, it's obviously indirectly related to fan base quite a bit). That is the whole point of the pyramid.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the clubs who got in at the start of the Lowland League being there but the whole point is that now there's a huge part of the pyramid below tier 5, clubs have to earn the right to stay there. And clubs who're doing everything they can to close off movement between tiers 5 and 6 because they know that increased movement would just hasten their descent down the pyramid absolutely can be criticised.

Exactly the same goes for the clubs who're determined to keep the movement between tiers 4 and 5 to a minimum. At least they're not also actively wrecking the leagues they're in right now.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Gordon EF

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Samsonite said:

I personally think there should be more promotion/relegation to/from LL as there should in the HL

It won't be an issue between tiers 5 and 6 in the North until more teams are licensed. It's not just a box ticking thing, you need floodlights to cope with an 18 team league plus cup games.

[Blootoon87]

In a way good, the more B teams apply, the more awkward it gets for the LL.

It also makes a mockery of the colts playing against senior pros if around half of the league is made up of colt teams.