Celtic and Hearts B Teams in Lowland League?

[vikingTON]

3 hours ago, Che Dail said:

Yeah, those crazy Dutch and Belgians,  absolute madness! Must be the North Sea.  What do they know about football? Obsessed.

I couldn't give a toss about the Dutch or Belgians. In this country club football stomps all over international football from a monumental height. 

[Che Dail]

9 hours ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

If you read my post to which you responded with the article, which seems to suggest B sides benefit their clubs and not their nations, you'll understand that I stated the Old Firm are trying to get their colt teams in to eventually replace their top sides if they get a chance to move elsewhere. That section does not address that point in any way.

Ronaldo made a massive 2 (two) appearances for the B team, in the same season in which he had 32 places on the pitch for Sporting's first squad.

I was replying to:

"Why not put the B teams in the top flight then why stop at tier 2?"

(Think you'd shared that from another poster, sorry, should've replied direct to him).

Are the OF definitely trying to move their 1st teams elsewhere?

 

[Che Dail]

9 hours ago, virginton said:

I couldn't give a toss about the Dutch or Belgians. In this country club football stomps all over international football from a monumental height. 

Quite a narrow view - if we're to shift focus towards the success of the national team, we should be looking to other countries to learn how they do it better than us - player development, club development, league structures, football philosophy, the lot.

If you haven't seen it already, check out the BBC Roberto Martinez documentary and see the focus and importance placed on the Belgian national team. It's number 1 for a reason.

[parsforlife]

2 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Quite a narrow view - if we're to shift focus towards the success of the national team,

Why should we do that?

The national side play a handful of games a year.  Our clubs play every single week,  club football is clearly most important and that should always be the case.  

Any sacrifice to our club game to help the national side is a shite decision.

Unless someone can put forward a good argument on how B teams will help improve our club game,  especially at non/lower leagues where the B teams will be dumped beyond 'well there's a bribe'  then this will always anger fans and hopefully always be crushed by clubs.

[FairWeatherFan]

If Celtic and Rangers are willing to invest £290k each plus wages etc for these 'B' teams, I'm actually surprised they haven't just bought a lower league club abroad. Go full City Group, Pozzo Family, Romanov.

Going abroad, likely living outside their family home for the first time, learning another language. It's probably a more well rounded experience than living in the bubble of the OF.

[Che Dail]

27 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Why should we do that?

The national side play a handful of games a year.  Our clubs play every single week,  club football is clearly most important and that should always be the case.  

Any sacrifice to our club game to help the national side is a shite decision.

Unless someone can put forward a good argument on how B teams will help improve our club game,  especially at non/lower leagues where the B teams will be dumped beyond 'well there's a bribe'  then this will always anger fans and hopefully always be crushed by clubs.

It should be that the country can develop players, clubs and the league structures to allow the best young players to thrive and develop.   The 'side-effect' of developing better players is that the game improves, our clubs get stronger, and our national team benefits.  

But in order for that to happen, change is needed and compromise will be necessary.  This won't please everyone - especially those who cannot see the bigger picture.

The professional clubs have a massive part to play.  Our two strongest clubs, the ones capable of competing at European level, are pitching an idea to introduce their B teams to the league structure.  They say it will improve them as clubs and their pool of young (mainly Scottish players) coming through their academy structure.  I think we should listen, and try it.

The success of the national team is in everyone's interest, and that goes beyond football.

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Che Dail said:

Quite a narrow view -

You're the one who wants to ruin the most significant element of the game for the overwhelming majority in this country, for the ostensible benefit of the Hamish Husband brigade (but in reality, to serve the fork-tongued interests of two bigot clubs).

Quote

if we're to shift focus towards the success of the national team, we should be looking to other countries to learn how they do it better than us - player development, club development, league structures, football philosophy, the lot.

There's no valid reason to 'shift focus' to the national team. Club football is what sustains interest in the sport in this country, year after year. So place yourself and your mewling in the sea. 

Edited June 26, 2021 by vikingTON

[Jack Burton]

Copy / pasted from the article:

As a reserve team, clubs such as Barcelona and Real Madrid have been given special privileges by the Spanish Football Association which allow them to transfer players to and from their B teams throughout the season, even when the transfer window is closed. However, in order to keep things fair, B teams are barred from playing in the same division as their senior side.

For example, when Castilla and Bilbao Athletic, the reserve team of La Liga side Athletic Bilbao, finished up in first and second place in the 1983/84 Segunda Division season, it was Hercules CF, Racing de Santander and Elche CF, who finished third, fourth and fifth respectively, who gained promotion to the top flight.

The reason for this decision is due to the fact that clubs could use their B teams to benefit their senior teams. They could field a weakened squad when the two teams meet, for example, or transfer all of their best players to the B team when they face tougher opponents.

The B teams will have set squads so transferring players between the first and B teams is a non-issue.

If all the B teams play weakened sides against their parent club then any points gained would be nullified.

Surely as this about player development we want the B teams playing against the best teams in the country. So surely you would support B teams being in the top flight?

[Forest_Fifer]

If Celtic and Rangers are willing to invest £290k each plus wages etc for these 'B' teams, I'm actually surprised they haven't just bought a lower league club abroad. Go full City Group, Pozzo Family, Romanov.
Going abroad, likely living outside their family home for the first time, learning another language. It's probably a more well rounded experience than living in the bubble of the OF.

That's not the end game though is it? It's so they still have a presence in the SPFL when the big teams f**k off to the atlantic league/epl/whatever pish the Record is pushing this month.

[LongTimeLurker]

Is that why Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs and Dundee United would also have B teams under this latest plan? Think that's a step too far on the available evidence.

[Jimi Shandrix]

6 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Is that why Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs and Dundee United would also have B teams under this latest plan? Think that's a step too far on the available evidence.

I rather think that Dundee United's B team might be their A team next season.

[oneteaminglasgow]

1 hour ago, Che Dail said:

The success of the national team is in everyone's interest, and that goes beyond football.

What does this even mean? 

[Che Dail]

2 hours ago, Jack Burton said:

The B teams will have set squads so transferring players between the first and B teams is a non-issue.

If all the B teams play weakened sides against their parent club then any points gained would be nullified.

Surely as this about player development we want the B teams playing against the best teams in the country. So surely you would support B teams being in the top flight?

On the same basis that other league bodies across Europe prohibit this, No, I wouldn't.

 

[peternapper]

2 hours ago, Forest_Fifer said:

4 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

If Celtic and Rangers are willing to invest £290k each plus wages etc for these 'B' teams, I'm actually surprised they haven't just bought a lower league club abroad. Go full City Group, Pozzo Family, Romanov.
Going abroad, likely living outside their family home for the first time, learning another language. It's probably a more well rounded experience than living in the bubble of the OF.

That's not the end game though is it? It's so they still have a presence in the SPFL when the big teams f**k off to the atlantic league/epl/whatever pish the Record is pushing this month.

Spot on, it is certainly not for the good of the National Team it is only to make sure the old firm still have a presence in Scotland if by chance they can get into another league somewhere

[Che Dail]

2 hours ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

What does this even mean? 

I'm talking about the impact of football: economic, social and health benefits.  It means when the national football team does well, the positive effects are wide ranging. 

[AlanCamelonfan]

4 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

If Celtic and Rangers are willing to invest £290k each plus wages etc for these 'B' teams, I'm actually surprised they haven't just bought a lower league club abroad. Go full City Group, Pozzo Family, Romanov.

Going abroad, likely living outside their family home for the first time, learning another language. It's probably a more well rounded experience than living in the bubble of the OF.

Rangers had northern spirit in the Australian nsl about 20 years ago

[GNU_Linux]

 

[david11]

6 hours ago, Che Dail said:

I'm talking about the impact of football: economic, social and health benefits.  It means when the national football team does well, the positive effects are wide ranging. 

And after the international circus F***'s right off at the end of a tournament for a couple years, it's the local clubs that provide an outlet for people. Local clubs and supporters that have said no to B sides multiple times and the OF just keep trying to shove it down our throats. 

Supporters in the lower leagues have a hard time hearing it's their responsibility to make the national team better while the Premiership clubs bring in players from all over Europe. 

[david11]

If B teams come in and Scotland doesn't qualify for the next World Cup can we institute rules saying all teams have to play in a formation and style dictated by the OF? Maybe the B teams should get to pick the opposition side so each player is challenged at just the right level. 

[Jack Burton]

On the same basis that other league bodies across Europe prohibit this, No, I wouldn't.
 

The rules in other European countries governing B teams would have nothing to do with Scotland. Why would you not support B teams in the top flight?