arnlow Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Was there a vote on extra relegation spots at Lowland League AGM on Brechin wanting in to the league or when would that take place?extra relegation spot ha comedy gold [emoji38] meadow one of clubs sold down the river penny will drop one day. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 extra relegation spot ha comedy gold [emoji38] meadow one of clubs sold down the river penny will drop one day. Joonyurs are still deid [emoji106] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 (edited) On 29/05/2021 at 16:27, LongTimeLurker said: In a similar manner to Ken Ferguson in SPFL board terms, George Fraser is going to find that his influence on the game won't last because his club simply won't be able to hack it at tier 5 level over the medium to long term once the top west clubs start to arrive and even before that as more of the existing members from a non recent junior background get relegated other league officeholders may well be voted in. It's too bad Tom Johnston and co did what they did back in the 100k toilet block and holy grail era to allow this small clique of clubs to gain the unhealthy influence they currently have but eventually the damage will be undone. There's a lot of unfounded and unfair (personal) criticism directed toward George Fraser. Would the WoS league (and the pyramid in the West) even exist without his involvement? He stood up to the plate and facilitated the thing, helped make it happen. On the B teams: He explored an opportunity and pitched it to the other LL clubs. The majority agreed to the proposal in a vote. But folk paint it like some authority figure has imposed something on others, which is quite clearly not the case. Football needs bold and innovative people to take risks and test new ideas. Without this, would we even have an EoS in its current format? Or would most still be in the Juniors on the outside? Edited May 30, 2021 by Che Dail 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 17 minutes ago, Che Dail said: There's a lot of unfounded and unfair (personal) criticism directed toward George Fraser. Would the WoS league (and the pyramid in the West) even exist without his involvement? He stood up to the plate and facilitated the thing, helped make it happen. On the B teams: He explored an opportunity and pitched it to the other LL clubs. The majority agreed to the proposal in a vote. But folk paint it like some authority figure has imposed something on others, which is quite clearly not the case. Football needs bold and innovative people to take risks and test new ideas. Without this, would we even have an EoS in its current format? Or would most still be in the Juniors on the outside? If he is an innovative person who is passionate about ventilation in the pyramid, why does the LL still only have one relegation spot? And yes, the WoS would still have happened without his involvement. That said, some of the criticism towards him is way OTT. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Che Dail said: Football needs bold and innovative people to take risks and test new ideas. Without this, would we even have an EoS in its current format? Or would most still be in the Juniors on the outside? The EoSFL came about in its current format because of Kelty and the EoSFL accommodating them. Which led to the first wave of disenfranchised East Region clubs quietly going about researching the EoSFL and intending to apply the following season regardless. George Fraser wasn't even an office holder in the LL at the time. Although raised his profile with the attempt by BSC to create a WoSFL during the 2017-18 season since BSC couldn't a reserve side into the Juniors. Which never actually went anywhere leaving Clydebank applying to the EoSFL, Kilwinning having a meeting that had 'EoS West Division' as an agenda topic, and plenty of chat about West clubs applying to the EoSFL or the EoSFL aiding the creation of a WoSFL. So yeah, I think we would be exactly where we are right now. Just without 'B' teams in the Lowland League for 2021-22. Edited May 30, 2021 by FairWeatherFan 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdenbeath Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 21 minutes ago, Burnieman said: If he is an innovative person who is passionate about ventilation in the pyramid, why does the LL still only have one relegation spot? And yes, the WoS would still have happened without his involvement. That said, some of the criticism towards him is way OTT. If an individual was to get credit for junior clubs moving over to the EOSL and the west sides eventually doing the same it would be Dean McKenzie at Kelty He was the first to take the plunge and the rest eventually followed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Believer Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Basically this harebrained idea of a 'pyramid' is now just a paradoy and as time goes on and on it will only become more so. harebrained....paradoy...? Eh? This thread is solid gold, really. Well played getting pyramid right though...[emoji23] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 11 minutes ago, cowdenbeath said: If an individual was to get credit for junior clubs moving over to the EOSL and the west sides eventually doing the same it would be Dean McKenzie at Kelty He was the first to take the plunge and the rest eventually followed. Yes, agree - but like I said, without bold and innovative people, where would we be? So on the one hand, we laud Kelty and their leaders , and rightly so, but berate others who demonstrate similar characteristics. BSC were well ahead of the game - entered the LL in 2014/15(?) I think all they had to do was apply. So for all the complaints about the integrity of the pyramid... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 25 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: The EoSFL came about in its current format because of Kelty and the EoSFL accommodating them. Which led to the first wave of disenfranchised East Region clubs quietly going about researching the EoSFL and intending to apply the following season regardless. George Fraser wasn't even an office holder in the LL at the time. Although raised his profile with the attempt by BSC to create a WoSFL during the 2017-18 season since BSC couldn't a reserve side into the Juniors. Which never actually went anywhere leaving Clydebank applying to the EoSFL, Kilwinning having a meeting that had 'EoS West Division' as an agenda topic, and plenty of chat about West clubs applying to the EoSFL or the EoSFL aiding the creation of a WoSFL. So yeah, I think we would be exactly where we are right now. Just without 'B' teams in the Lowland League for 2021-22. It is Kelty I am alluding to with reference to the EoS. What you've described re the WoS is the initial planting of seeds which ultimately led to invitations being sought for new applicants - to be sent to George and / or John Greenhorn of the EoS. My point is, debates around the formation of a WoS might still be punted back and forward on here, without leaders making formal moves to get it going. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 54 minutes ago, Burnieman said: If he is an innovative person who is passionate about ventilation in the pyramid, why does the LL still only have one relegation spot? And yes, the WoS would still have happened without his involvement. That said, some of the criticism towards him is way OTT. Is that definitely the case - the 1 relegation spot...? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, Che Dail said: My point is, debates around the formation of a WoS might still be punted back and forward on here, without leaders making formal moves to get it going. The return of the PWG had the EoSFL stuck on West and Tayside leagues. This was before Ian Maxwell and the LL Board changed over during the 2018 close season. The constant failings of the PWG would have played out the same. Clydebank by that point were stuck on a return to senior football, and we've seen how committed the likes of Kilwinning's and Darvel's newish committees have brought about changes to those clubs in particular. Pretty sure it was Colin Boyd that set up an account for initial notes of interest. It really would have played out the same way because there hasn't been a single person overseeing this, but various parties eventually working in the same direction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 16 minutes ago, Che Dail said: Is that definitely the case - the 1 relegation spot...? I'm guessing if they have voted to increase this on Thursday we would have heard about it by now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honestman1954 Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 16 hours ago, Spyro said: Stranraer Reserves actually won the SoS league but were unable to be promoted to the Lowland League ON MERIT because the rules state that no 2nd team is allowed into tier 5. Oh, and the next eligible club were denied the right to a playoff with the EoS champions as only the champion clubs are allowed in the playoffs... Precedent set! Good luck to the Lowland Leagues “3rd place” team getting into the SPFL playoff next season. Good job Mr Fraser and the rest of the sellouts I think that was my point 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honestman1954 Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 22 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said: They do, it's the first teams they did away with. ha ha. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 2 hours ago, Burnieman said: If he is an innovative person who is passionate about ventilation in the pyramid, why does the LL still only have one relegation spot? If this is the case, then my response would be: because the majority of clubs voted for the status quo on number of relegation spots (if there even was such a vote - not sure if an AGM is the right forum for it tbh ). Anyhow, that decision is not at the behest of one person. Last season the LL was decided on PPG, which (correct me if I'm wrong) means that a club WOULD have been relegated or 'ventilated' if a club had been put forward for promotion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 24 minutes ago, Che Dail said: If this is the case, then my response would be: because the majority of clubs voted for the status quo on number of relegation spots (if there even was such a vote - not sure if an AGM is the right forum for it tbh ). Anyhow, that decision is not at the behest of one person. Last season the LL was decided on PPG, which (correct me if I'm wrong) means that a club WOULD have been relegated or 'ventilated' if a club had been put forward for promotion. If you are such a passionate and innovative person regarding the pyramid system, the first thing you do is get the absolute basics in place first before going absolutely left field. The basics in any pyramid system is ample turnover of clubs between the levels - ventilation. Instead, he presides over 1 up/1 down. I appreciate it's not solely in his gift to deliver that but maybe a bit of effort wouldn't have gone amiss, however he knows fine well that at some point in the near future BSC will be in serious danger if they went 3 up/3 down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Fraser had done a reasonable job in his involvement with the LL and he's decided to chuck that all away to suck the OF off for a bag of crisps and a bottle of wkd. He's a rat, there's no getting away from it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Burton Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 If this is the case, then my response would be: because the majority of clubs voted for the status quo on number of relegation spots (if there even was such a vote - not sure if an AGM is the right forum for it tbh ). Anyhow, that decision is not at the behest of one person. Last season the LL was decided on PPG, which (correct me if I'm wrong) means that a club WOULD have been relegated or 'ventilated' if a club had been put forward for promotion. A vote would have to take place at the AGM or EGM to change the relegation places so was exactly the right place. There was no relegation from the Lowland league when it was decided on PPG for 19/20.It's an absolute farce that the LL have parachuted the Old Firm Colts straight into the tier 5 while keeping the door shut on the 100+ clubs in tier 6 and below, many who have been spending a fortune to get the licence to be able to play in the LL. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The clean living guy Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Where are these abominations going to play? Rangers seem to have a ground of sorts at the training centre. Will Celtic do simlar? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
come on shire Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 59 minutes ago, The clean living guy said: Where are these abominations going to play? Rangers seem to have a ground of sorts at the training centre. Will Celtic do simlar? Rangers have Murray Park in Milngavie and Celtic have a complex in Lennoxtown. I can't see why they can't play their home games there tbh. Having said that, I've heard rumours that Rangers want to play at Somerset Park in Ayr. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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