Celtic and Hearts B Teams in Lowland League?

[energyzone]

Please see the filmed interviews on these links.
John Kennedy makes good points: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/12303668/john-kennedy-celtic-rangers-b-teams-can-stop-players-from-falling-through-the-net
and
So does Steven Gerrard: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11788/12303425/steven-gerrard-rangers-and-celtic-b-teams-a-big-plus-for-steve-clarkes-scotland-side
They both make good arguments from a position of having a sound knowledge of youth football and experience at elite level.

The problem is we are getting told that the reason this idea needs to happen is that it will benefit Scottish football. In reality it's going to (perhaps) benefit two teams only. They are trying to pull the wool over our eyes. This will produce absolutely no benefit whatsoever to 40 out of the 42 SPFL clubs yet we are being patronised regardless.

[Che Dail]

1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I didn't and won't be. Unless they are announcing that both clubs are being wound up.

Ok, here's something on Ajax and PSV instead.  Heathens, the lot of them!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/20/eredivisie-clubs-ajax-psv-az-utrecht-teams-dutch

[Bundesliga Boy]

22 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Ok, here's something on Ajax and PSV instead.  Heathens, the lot of them!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/20/eredivisie-clubs-ajax-psv-az-utrecht-teams-dutch

Whilst not a massive proponent of the Colts idea myself.....I much prefer smaller towns/teams with history meeting that actually means something to the fans, I do accept your argument to an extent about Colts teams.  Obviously it wont truly benefit the OF or indeed potentially (if at all) the national team until they have worked their way up.

Do you not however accept that, even if you are all for the prospect of the OF Colts, there is something inherently wrong about starting two or 3 levels above the bottom rung....and having to pay clubs off to start at that level in the first place?

Yes you can argue its a one year deal.......but if so then why not just start at bottom tier - it's not as if the Kai Kennedy's of the world who has done so well at Raith would be sent to play at Lowland Level anyway.  

If you start at the bottom you could then make this a potential long term goal of working up the divisions etc without all the furore of sporting integrity and bungs being levelled at both clubs.

A bit of 'reading the room' by these two clubs wouldn't have gone amiss. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Bundesliga Boy

[Ranaldo Bairn]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Always a great argument when it gets boiled down to one of the best players in the world. Like talking up Croatia, while ignoring all the countries that qualified for the 2018 World Cup with similar or smaller populations like Iceland, Serbia, Sweden, Denmark and of course all those that didn't qualify just like Scotland.

By the way since the point of 'B' teams from those trying to sell the vision is about a team "growing together". How many recognisable names are there from Messi's last 3 'B' team appearances?

 

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Well I recognise Arnau Riera for one! 

[Marten]

12 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Ok, here's something on Ajax and PSV instead.  Heathens, the lot of them!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/20/eredivisie-clubs-ajax-psv-az-utrecht-teams-dutch

These teams have massively failed in The Netherlands. They completely ruin the lower leagues as previously stated and add very little (if anything) to youth development, so it's not exactly a good example to bring up.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

8 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

Very true. Apparently it was Historic Scotland who insisted the stand faced away from the rock. Absolutely no idea what their logic was there.

And here you go.....I once challenged a very plummy-voiced lady from Historic Scotland at a meeting as to why they had objected and she could provide no answer.  Still, we get a braw view of Morrisons goods inward area.

[Che Dail]

2 minutes ago, Marten said:

These teams have massively failed in The Netherlands. They completely ruin the lower leagues as previously stated and add very little (if anything) to youth development, so it's not exactly a good example to bring up.

You didn't read that article either, did you?

Ajax is one of the most successful youth academies in Europe.

 

[Marten]

Just now, Che Dail said:

You didn't read that article either, did you?

Ajax is one of the most successful youth academies in Europe.

 

Yes, and the B-team had nothing to do with that. None of their biggest talents in history came through there.

Are you honestly telling me how the system in the Dutch second tier works, the country that I'm from and the division that the team I support play in? 

[Spyro]

1 minute ago, Che Dail said:

You didn't read that article either, did you?

Ajax is one of the most successful youth academies in Europe.

 

Oh wow! 

I would 100% take Marten’s word on whether they work any better than the old system in The Nederland's, rather than some Guardian reporter who is being spun a story by the guys who are trying to run the current system.

Yes they are the best academies, but there involvement in the leagues is questionable to say the least  

[Stewie Griffin]

4 hours ago, dougster said:

On the Berwick fan Facebook page, we did a poll with the vast majority coming out against the Colts joining however the powers that be, with the organised Supporters groups, decided to go with the League proposal.

Supporters Trust never even asked members for their views. So that's another few quid a month saved. 

[Che Dail]

Just now, Marten said:

Yes, and the B-team had nothing to do with that. None of their biggest talents in history came through there.

Are you honestly telling me how the system in the Dutch second tier works, the country that I'm from and the division that the team I support play in? 

One of the best academies in europe started a B team, along with others.  Presumably this idea was generated by Dutch people, from the Netherlands, who are responsible for the success of youth development in their country.

But instead of visiting those academies to learn best practice, speak to experts, and test ideas here in a pilot project, we'd save a lot of time and energy by following the advice of a Dutch football supporter on pie + bovril who says it's bad.

 

[Bundesliga Boy]

19 minutes ago, Stewie Griffin said:

Supporters Trust never even asked members for their views. So that's another few quid a month saved. 

Its a shame as I've only been been to see Berwick twice but were such great trips.

Great walks the next day down below the town next to the water with the trains overhead.

Think Berwick and others have badly misjudged this whole situation.

[Che Dail]

26 minutes ago, Spyro said:

Oh wow! 

I would 100% take Marten’s word on whether they work any better than the old system in The Nederland's

The article is not an opinion piece, it reports the journalist's observations.

Would you consider Marten's judgement to be more sound than the Technical Director of the Ajax Academy, or the equivalent at PSV or Utrecht?

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Che Dail

[Dink]

That articles talks of Bayern Munich winding up their 'colt' team. It also doesn't evaluate at all whether the Dutch b teams have been successful. There's no talk of the number of qualified youth coaches in the Netherlands, the quality of those youth coaches, or of facilities in comparison to Scotland. The article certainly doesn't prove anything about the success of b teams in player development. Although it certainly suggests that the teams won't attract decent crowds.

[FairWeatherFan]

Develop your own and take a punt on the rest = the Ajax way.

Pick up 15-17 year olds from other clubs youth sides domestically with your financial advantage now they're turning pro. Teenagers from abroad once its legal. Then the odd lower league signing breaking through into the 1st team that you've missed since they were at an unfashionable club. 

All helped these days by having two teams operating in professional leagues. All the better to hoard. Sorry! Develop players. 

[Gordon EF]

18 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

The article is not an opinion piece, it reports the journalist's observations.

Would you consider Marten's judgement to be more sound than the Technical Director of the Ajax Academy, or the equivalent at PSV or Utrecht?

 

Absolutely nobody is disputing that the clubs who have B teams want to have B teams. What the hell would you expect employees of these clubs to say when they're asked about B teams? It's like asking someone from Apple whether they think the new iphone is better than the new Samsung Galaxy. They are not and cannot be expected to be objective about these things.

If, and it is a massive if, someone could make a compelling argument that the inclusion of colt teams would lead to a significant improvement in the quality of Scottish international footballers over the next 5-10 years then that is something that should be seriously considered. But there is a cost. It's not a cost borne by the OF or folk who sit at home watching the odd game on TV. The cost is to the lower leagues.

Some supporters of lower league clubs buy into this "but Croatia" nonsense, God knows why. But no serious supporter of a lower league club thinks B teams will improve the lower leagues. You'll find plenty of folk on here who're adamant that if B teams make it into the leagues, they're done with Scottish football. I'm really not exaggerating when I say i think it could have a potentially catastrophic impact on lower league Scottish football. Now if you don't care about lower league football, fine, nobody is asking you to. If you just think this is good for the OF and so support it, fine. If you genuinely think this will significantly improve the Scottish national team in years to come, fine again, although there is no compelling argument I've seen other than "they do and they're good". 

[Gordon EF]

10 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Develop your own and take a punt on the rest = the Ajax way.

Pick up 15-17 year olds from other clubs youth sides domestically with your financial advantage now they're turning pro. Teenagers from abroad once its legal. Then the odd lower league signing breaking through into the 1st team that you've missed since they were at an unfashionable club. 

All helped these days by having two teams operating in professional leagues. All the better to hoard. Sorry! Develop players. 

Exactly this. It's 100% not about developing players. It's about hoarding them because neither of them want to miss out on another Andy Robertson.

[Spyro]

8 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Absolutely nobody is disputing that the clubs who have B teams want to have B teams. What the hell would you expect employees of these clubs to say when they're asked about B teams? It's like asking someone from Apple whether they think the new iphone is better than the new Samsung Galaxy. They are not and cannot be expected to be objective about these things.

The point I was making

[Che Dail]

5 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Absolutely nobody is disputing that the clubs who have B teams want to have B teams. What the hell would you expect employees of these clubs to say when they're asked about B teams? It's like asking someone from Apple whether they think the new iphone is better than the new Samsung Galaxy. They are not and cannot be expected to be objective about these things.

If, and it is a massive if, someone could make a compelling argument that the inclusion of colt teams would lead to a significant improvement in the quality of Scottish international footballers over the next 5-10 years then that is something that should be seriously considered. But there is a cost. It's not a cost borne by the OF or folk who sit at home watching the odd game on TV. The cost is to the lower leagues.

Some supporters of lower league clubs buy into this "but Croatia" nonsense, God knows why. But no serious supporter of a lower league club thinks B teams will improve the lower leagues. You'll find plenty of folk on here who're adamant that if B teams make it into the leagues, they're done with Scottish football. I'm really not exaggerating when I say i think it could have a potentially catastrophic impact on lower league Scottish football. Now if you don't care about lower league football, fine, nobody is asking you to. If you just think this is good for the OF and so support it, fine. If you genuinely think this will significantly improve the Scottish national team in years to come, fine again, although there is no compelling argument I've seen other than "they do and they're good". 

"Potentially catastrophic"? No, that's mostly doom mongering 

Spanish football has not had a meltdown yet, has it? Pep Guardiola, I mean what does he know?

[Che Dail]

Just now, Spyro said:

The point I was making

Do you think Steven Gerrard was reading off a script and being told what to say and think? Because his employer said so, and he'd better toe the line or else? 

I strongly suspect the man would still have a future at Rangers or elsewhere in the game if he disagreed with B teams concept. He's clearly very competent, and capable of forming his own informed opinion.